First Group to take on LNER and EasyJet on ECML

[DavidB-AU]

Rail fares between London and Edinburgh are set to tumble from next month.

 

A new “open access” train operator, branded Lumo, is to take on the state-owned LNER on the East Coast main line – with one-way fares starting at below £15 for nearly 400 miles of rail travel.

 

From 25 October, Lumo will offer up to 10 services a day between London King’s Cross and Edinburgh Waverley. They will take around four-and-a-half hours and serve Newcastle and the Northumberland town of Morpeth en route – with some trains calling at Stevenage in Hertfordshire, close to Luton airport.

 

The newcomer is backed by First Group, the Aberdeen-based multinational transport enterprise. The name Lumo is said to combine “illumination and motion”.

 

The company says: “We take our passengers’ wellbeing extremely seriously and want everyone to arrive refreshed and ready.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/train-london-edinburgh-lumo-lner-b1915341.html

Edited September 7, 2021 by DavidB-AU

[DavidB-AU]

Lumo tempts air travellers with low-cost electric trains

 

A fully-electric low-cost rail service will connect Edinburgh and London from next month in one of the boldest attempts to cut emissions and persuade air travellers to take the train.

 

Lumo, owned by Aberdeen-based transport company FirstGroup, will provide low-carbon, affordable long-distance travel for for an estimated one million passengers a year and it is targeting the 74,500 passengers who currently fly between the two capitals each month.  

 

Single tickets will have a starting price of just £14.90 with about 60% of all single fares available for £30 or less.

 

Rail travel already generates six times fewer carbon emissions than travelling by plane, according to the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. Lumo expects to be even more carbon efficient than the average rail service because its trains are 100% electric.

 

Services start on 25 October, with their frequency increasing over time to a maximum of ten per day by early next year.

 

https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2021/09/lumo-tempts-air-travellers-with-low-cost-electric-trains/

[Darius43]

“Its trains are ergonomically designed for comfort and ease, helping passengers to work or play at their custom-designed seats, which all come with adjustable* tray table, privacy wings and personal lighting.”

 

I see they will be using Hitachi Class 803 units (presumably suitably weld checked and strengthened).  Be interesting to see how comfortable (or otherwise) the seat specification is for these trains…

 

I note from the Wikipedia site that they have ordered five 5-car trains so presumably capacity will be limited.  Also no first class.

 

Interesting how these days all design is “ergonomical” and “custom” but never “cheap”, sorry, “cost-effective”.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

* up or down presumably.

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Darius43

[John M Upton]

3 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

The name Lumo is said to combine “illumination and motion”.

 

So its got lights and it moves...

 

Who writes this rubbish?

[Monkersson]

2 hours ago, Darius43 said:

“Its trains are ergonomically designed for comfort and ease, helping passengers to work or play at their custom-designed seats, which all come with adjustable* tray table, privacy wings and personal lighting.”

 

I see they will be using Hitachi Class 803 units (presumably suitably weld checked and strengthened).  Be interesting to see how comfortable (or otherwise) the seat specification is for these trains…

 

I note from the Wikipedia site that they have ordered five 5-car trains so presumably capacity will be limited.  Also no first class.

 

Interesting how these days all design is “ergonomical” and “custom” but never “cheap”, sorry, “cost-effective”.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

* up or down presumably.

 

 

7 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

 

So its got lights and it moves...

 

Who writes this rubbish?

Why is there always negativity on here whenever new developments are announced on the network?   Would you rather nothing was invested and the whole lot disappeared so you could moan a little more?

 

Seriously, get a grip

 

These business providing services need to make money, the general public just want to get on a train as cheap as possible with the minimum fuss.  They dont care about the name or what words are described to promote them.  All they want to hear is 'cheap'

 

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

20 minutes ago, Monkersson said:

 

Why is there always negativity on here whenever new developments are announced on the network?   Would you rather nothing was invested and the whole lot disappeared so you could moan a little more?

 

Seriously, get a grip

 

These business providing services need to make money, the general public just want to get on a train as cheap as possible with the minimum fuss.  They dont care about the name or what words are described to promote them.  All they want to hear is 'cheap'

 

 

 

So the good people who came up with names such as Rocket and Locomotion got it wrong and were wasting their time?

Bernard

[Ron Ron Ron]

47 minutes ago, Monkersson said:

 

Why is there always negativity on here whenever new developments are announced on the network?   Would you rather nothing was invested and the whole lot disappeared so you could moan a little more?

 

Seriously, get a grip

 

These business providing services need to make money, the general public just want to get on a train as cheap as possible with the minimum fuss.  They dont care about the name or what words are described to promote them.  All they want to hear is 'cheap'

 

 

 

 

I don't want to appear negative and I think this competition is good and much needed, but the choice of brand name is utter cr** and the made up PR nonsense to explain its meaning or symbolism, is pretentious and frankly pathetic.

 

I wish it every success though.

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[hexagon789]

3 hours ago, Darius43 said:

Be interesting to see how comfortable (or otherwise) the seat specification is for these trains…

Well, they are a different design to the usual 80x seats.

 

3 hours ago, Darius43 said:

I note from the Wikipedia site that they have ordered five 5-car trains so presumably capacity will be limited.  

400 seats exactly - there are less table bays so the intermediate cars seat 94 instead of the usual 84.

 

4 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

Services start on 25 October, with their frequency increasing over time to a maximum of ten per day by early next year.

I presume they mean 5 each way = 10 - they only have 5 paths in each direction in the timetable that I can see.

 

4 hours ago, DavidB-AU said:

Single tickets will have a starting price of just £14.90 with about 60% of all single fares available for £30 or less.

Which is intriguing because the fares database contradicts that slightly:

 

Kings Cross or Stevenage to Newcastle or Morpeth: Lowest tier: £7.90/Highest tier: £16.90

 

Kings Cross or Stevenage to Edinburgh: Lowest tier: £9.90/Highest tier: £21.90

 

Newcastle or Morpeth to Edinburgh: Lowest tier: £2.90/Highest tier: £8.50

 

[Legend]

I suppose it depends where you start and end from to see if this service is competitive . If its centre of London to centre Edinburgh then with  Easyjet , got to get bus to Luton/ train to Gatwick . Allow an hour , a further hour for checkin, security etc , an hours flight , half an hour to get off plane , then bus from Edinburgh airport to Centre . Theres probably not much in it .  However I've got vague recollections that when the 225s were introduced there was a 3 hour 59 min service to Edinburgh  which then extended to Glasgow , so it looks like timings could still be improved to squeeze it further

 

As to names , well seen it all before , I think as you get older you certainly get more jaded and cynical instead of rejoicing in "illumination and motion"  Could go to Blackpool and a ride on a tram for that . 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Legend
corrected spelling

[hexagon789]

4 minutes ago, Legend said:

However I've got vaugue recollections that when the 225s were introduced there was a 3 hour 59 min service to Edinburgh  which then extended to Glasgow , so it looks like timings could still be improved to squeeze it further

You are correct, and GNER briefly resurrected it - twice.

 

On-time performance was poor - 40% iirc under BR.

 

And LNER were going to accelerate services to take 4-4h05, the amended new timetable saw York inserted into all Edinburgh fasts so the timings became 4h05-4h10, or will if the new timetable gets implemented which seems debatable at the moment.

[eastwestdivide]

Lumo - it's just a brand name. I'm sure we'll get used to it.

Has the advantage of standing out from the established formula of [optional company/group name] + [vague regional designator] + [trains/railway]

 

Although on the downside, if you're phoning Maureen or Mohammed, "I'm just on the Lumo" might be misunderstood.

[DavidB-AU]

Is the name any worse than Ouigo that inspired the concept?

[Ron Ron Ron]

49 minutes ago, Legend said:

.....Allow an hour , a further hour for checkin, security etc , ....

 

Not criticising your general point, but you can leave out the one hour check-in nonsense.

90%+ of domestic passengers check-in online, prior to arriving at the airport.

For some low cost operators, it's nearer to 99%.

 

For cabin baggage only, there is no check-in time or minimum time, except that you have to allow yourself enough time to pass through security and get to the gate in good time before boarding starts.

That necessary time allowance will vary from airport to airport.

At some large airports, it would be wise to allow up to an hour, just to navigate through the "system" and terminal.

At other smaller airports, 20 to 30 minutes will suffice as a bare minimum.

 

With hold baggage, there is of course a minimum time before departure for the bag drop.

 

With regard to the opening point about depending on where you start and end your journey, whether is by rail, air or road, the overwhelming majority of city to city trips start or end at a residential address.

City centre to city centre journeys are much less common.

 

 

.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[Zomboid]

42 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Not criticising your general point, but you can leave out the one hour check-in nonsense.

It's not always essential, but if you're using public transport to access the airport, then planning to leave only 20-30 minutes for collecting boarding passes, security and getting to the gate is playing with fire somewhat. It wouldn't take much for that allowance to evaporate and become a missed plane. And if you're driving to the airport then parking there could be some distance from the terminal, depending on how long you're staying. Last time I used Gatwick it was at least 20 minutes from the car park to the front door of the (wrong) terminal, and then I had to get through everything else.

 

Of course a lot of that applies to these kinds of train too, but there once you're at the station door then there should be a meaningful amount less faffing about required to get to the train.

[wombatofludham]

I don't have a problem with the name, we live in a designer label obsessed society where the vacuous pay over the top for a brand.  My gripe is with the plain blue colour scheme.  i remember a time when enthusiasts moaned about the all blue BR local livery, claiming it was dull, leading to Sir Peter Parker deciding that all passenger trains would henceforth be blue grey.  Now, enthusiasts moan about technicolour trains with swoopy colour schemes and praise the monotone doom green of GWR.  Lumo's dull blue makes the Hitachi unit look like a Class 304 but without the relief of a yellow bib.  It's not a particularly nice shade of blue either.  It's almost like they want to portray a cheap as chips image of "it's a train, deal with it".  

It is actually possible to create a livery that looks classy and is also a bargain product.  You don't see the highly competitive London to Oxford and Heathrow to Oxford coaches painted in a dull blue livery yet they are most definitely marketed on price consciousness as well as frequency.

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, Zomboid said:

It's not always essential, but if you're using public transport to access the airport, then planning to leave only 20-30 minutes for collecting boarding passes, security and getting to the gate is playing with fire somewhat. It wouldn't take much for that allowance to evaporate and become a missed plane. .........

 

You arrive at the airport with the boarding pass in your hand or on your phone already.

You won't collect a boarding pass at the airport, particularly for domestic or short haul European flights, unless you are one of the relatively small number of people who leave check-in until you get to the airport, or if you intend to collect your boarding pass from one of the self-service machines, rather than print off a paper version at home, or the office.

 

Unless you've booked hold baggage, there are no formalities or check-in procedures necessary, until you present yourself for boarding at the gate.

Getting through security and finding your way to the gate is another matter.

 

As for playing with fire, you are absolutely right and that's why I said it depended on which airport you are departing from and I would always advocate allowing contingency time in getting to the airport, as I would in getting to a railway station to catch a train.

 

If I was catching a train from Euston to Manchester, or KGX to York for instance, I'd want to be at those departure stations at the very minimum, 15 to 20 mins before departure time, but allowing for contingency time and barring any mishaps on the way, I would probably be planning to get there at least 30 to 40 mins before the train was due to leave.

The concourses, eateries, bars and shops at those London termini are usually full of people who've turned up anything up to an hour or more before their train's departure time.

 

 

 

Gatwick and Luton airports are a bit far out though, particularly Luton and getting to and from those airports will add a time penalty for a lot of people.

Possibly some faff as well.

It will depend on your starting and ending points.

For example,

East Croydon to Gatwick is 15 mins by train

East Croydon to Kings Cross is 36 mins.

Ealing Broadway to Heathrow T5 will be 26 mins when the Elizabeth Line is fully open

Ealing Broadway to Kings Cross takes at least 40 mins

 

 

.

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[rob D2]

“ I’m on the lumo” , might just catch on.

[russ p]

There has just been an article on look north about this more or less inferring that these new trains were revolutionary being ALL electric!  They have had all electric trains on and off in the North East for over a hundred years 

[admiles]

If Lumo can bring a bit of competition at a much more reasonable price than LNER good luck to them. 

 

Personally if I'm traveling I care not one jot what the name on the side or what the livery is. Especially as they'll be using essentially the same train as LNER too.

Edited September 8, 2021 by admiles

[Steamport Southport]

Just the same old concept with a new paint job. Remember all those small companies promising the earth and cheap travel? All gone.

 

Just a couple of examples that I used regularly.

 

Remember London Midland offering £15 return tickets from Liverpool to London? That didn't last long before they were raised to normal prices.

 

Likewise Wrexham & Shropshire offering cheap trains to London via Shrewsbury and Wolverhampton. Great if you weren't in a hurry, but they also went the same way as the dodo.

 

 

I give them six months before they either go under or raise their prices back to the current level. At the end of the day they've got to make money.

 

 

Sorry for being cynical but we've seen it all before....

 

 

Jason

[John M Upton]

Similarly all those efforts at using converted old passenger EMU's for parcels and freight traffic.  Lots of jazzy (presumably mostly vinyl) paint schemes and snazzy press launches but since then, err nothing.

 

What happened to the much trumpeted Rail Adventure HST launch a while back?  That also fizzled out pretty much instantly.

[eastwestdivide]

2 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Similarly all those efforts at using converted old passenger EMU's for parcels and freight traffic.  Lots of jazzy (presumably mostly vinyl) paint schemes and snazzy press launches but since then, err nothing.

 

What happened to the much trumpeted Rail Adventure HST launch a while back?  That also fizzled out pretty much instantly.

 

Bit off topic, but there's been some activity with both the Orion parcel EMUs and a Rail Adventure power car in the last week or so - photographed over on the wnxx.com news pages. The former on test runs on the WCML, the latter having new lighting fitted at Eastleigh.

If you're a subscriber, have a look at

http://www.wnxx.com/21/2109/010921/768001.htm

and

http://www.wnxx.com/21/2109/070921/43480.htm

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by eastwestdivide

[KingEdwardII]

On 07/09/2021 at 10:14, Ron Ron Ron said:

but you can leave out the one hour check-in nonsense

Hmm, while I can agree that "check-in" is not required since it can be done online ahead of time, you don't get much change out of an hour from walking through the front door of the airport to your plane being ready to depart.

 

First, they close the gates 30 mins before departure in many airports, so that's 50% gone. The rest is spent in getting to the gate, with Security a total lottery. The queue last time we used Birmingham airport was a sight to behold!

 

The days when I could cheerfully allow 15mins from the car park to the plane at Southampton airport are sadly a distant memory. As for Heathrow & Gatwick, I'm not sure even 1 hour is enough any longer and the costs of missing a plane are eye watering if using a "budget" airline.

 

But then again, using Eurostar takes a good while as well, between the Security checks and the Passport controls (yes, plural...). 

 

Yours, Mike.

[KingEdwardII]

Back to the original topic - I am well up for budget priced trips from London to either Newcastle or Edinburgh. We have relatives in both places and a well priced alternative to a 6 or 8 hour road trek would certainly be on the agenda, given the hassles of using Heathrow or Gatwick (forget Southampton airport, they want you to rob a bank before you buy a return to Edinburgh from there...).

 

Yours,  Mike.