First Group to take on LNER and EasyJet on ECML

[Ian Hargrave]

Fortunately,there are available paths for this new service on the ECML. Other parts of the UK are less fortunate. Will be interesting to see LNER reaction to LUMO. Though I seem to remember a few months ago a swipe from an XC train crew member that whilst their services were overcrowded from north of York,LNER were sparsely occupied.

 

Railway Race to theNorth 21C style or price cut wars . Both ultimately unsustainable .I’m also forgetting to throw TPE into the mix as they also run between Newcastle and Edinburgh…..making 4 TOC on that line soon.Well,it is a remote and beautiful part of the UK…

 

[Mallard60022]

Presumably these things are not stopping anywhere else apart from those named intermediate Stations? 

[hexagon789]

7 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Presumably these things are not stopping anywhere else apart from those named intermediate Stations? 

Morpeth & Newcastle only, plus a few making select calls at Stevenage.

[Mallard60022]

33 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

Morpeth & Newcastle only, plus a few making select calls at Stevenage.

Strewth. 

[Ian Hargrave]

17 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Strewth. 

Indeed.When you consider that the other TOC stop variously at Morpeth,Alnmouth,Berwick and Dunbar. 

[hexagon789]

36 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Strewth. 

Timetable:

 

[pete_mcfarlane]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Presumably these things are not stopping anywhere else apart from those named intermediate Stations? 

Isn't that fairly standard for new open access operators, to avoid them pinching revenue from he existing franchised operator? (The so called 'ORCATS raid')

 

20 hours ago, russ p said:

There has just been an article on look north about this more or less inferring that these new trains were revolutionary being ALL electric!  They have had all electric trains on and off in the North East for over a hundred years 

A lot of news stories seem to be rehashes of whatever nonsense was in the press release. 

[Nearholmer]

First Group are a non-trivial outfit, so perhaps it might be more instructional to think about why they might be into this, rather than critiquing the name and livery.

 

My hunch is that this isn’t ‘quick buck’ stuff, but an experiment in “coach class” rail travel to see how that works out, a sort of easyJet on rails.

[lmsforever]

• I hope that  this operation succeeds as it is providing a well priced service at last for passengers maybe others will follow as fares are ridiculous..  I agree with Nearholmer about what the ideas are behind the project ignore the name and see people new to rail trying it out.LNER need a kick up the backside as their latest cockup with timetables shows, its been put back to next year NR are not happy with them.The ecml needs competition as does the wcml  hope First win.

[Ian Hargrave]

3 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

• I hope that  this operation succeeds as it is providing a well priced service at last for passengers maybe others will follow as fares are ridiculous..  I agree with Nearholmer about what the ideas are behind the project ignore the name and see people new to rail trying it out.LNER need a kick up the backside as their latest cockup with timetables shows, its been put back to next year NR are not happy with them.The ecml needs competition as does the wcml  hope First win.

Competition or a different market  ?  A direct capital to capital ( apologies to Tyneside) service as opposed to providing an intermediate service enroute which is what LNER etc.do.There should be neither winners nor losers.If there are,it’ll be the passengers who will lose ultimately. 

[Nearholmer]

Rail travel has always had different "market segments", people with different whims, wants, wishes, and needs, and operators have always found it very difficult to serve all of them, all at once, while not wasting resources in the process, a really difficult task given how peaky demand in the premium/business sector tends to be

 

 One future on main-lines might be a hard split, with completely separate trains for different market segments, a return to Pullman for one segment, and this easyjet/motorway-coach sort of service for another, rather than trying to cover all tastes in every train.

 

Whether that would be a good thing or not is a moot point. I can certainly see down-sides to it, probably because I've always liked middling sort of rail travel, not rammed in like a bus or a budget 'plane, but neither all the flummery of premium class; give me a "four seats round a table" arrangement, aligned with the window, and a luggage van that will take bikes without reserving a hundred years in advance, and I'm happy to bring my own sandwiches and a flask of coffee.

[Metr0Land]

3 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Indeed.When you consider that the other TOC stop variously at Morpeth,Alnmouth,Berwick and Dunbar. 

 

Doesn't this go back to privitisation in 1994 when the regulator required certain minimum levels of stops by the operator at some places due to public lobbying?   AFAIK those requirements have hardly changed if at all.

[Zomboid]

51 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

 

Doesn't this go back to privitisation in 1994 when the regulator required certain minimum levels of stops by the operator at some places due to public lobbying?   AFAIK those requirements have hardly changed if at all.

Certainly franchised operators have minimum service levels to adhere to. Though the TOC which primarily serves Dunbar changed, so it's presumably governed at a higher level.

 

Anyway, I hope this is successful in attracting new customers to rail. Don't have any views on the branding, so long as it does the job it's intended to. Kind of surprised it's a brand new and unique class of train they're using, but that should help.

 

[surfsup]

22 hours ago, eastwestdivide said:

 

Bit off topic, but there's been some activity with both the Orion parcel EMUs and a Rail Adventure power car in the last week or so - photographed over on the wnxx.com news pages. The former on test runs on the WCML, the latter having new lighting fitted at Eastleigh.

If you're a subscriber, have a look at

http://www.wnxx.com/21/2109/010921/768001.htm

and

http://www.wnxx.com/21/2109/070921/43480.htm

 

 

 

 

Indeed - The Rail Adventure HST hasn't "fizzled out" but each Power Car is currently having the necessary modifications it needs to work for RA, including the newer high level headlights. Arlington are busy working on them for RA and they should be out doing what RA requires of them fairly soon. We almost seem to live in a world where we feel that we need to be informed 24/7 (Perhaps RA did the press launch too early?!) and are perhaps too quick to write something off as a result. 

 

Back to LUMO. It'll be interesting to see how this pans out - the new seats should be interesting to see how they compare to other designs (the same design is expected to be used across Avanti's fleet) and the low fares should make for a decent affordable quick getaway type break. And, although my return journey in LNERs FC wasn't too bad last month, I do feel LNER needs a bit of a shake up too - as someone still awaiting the outcome of several delay repays. 

[Pandora]

On 08/09/2021 at 18:57, hexagon789 said:

Timetable:

 

Looking at the M-F timetable,  pathways are all comfortably outside the peak period,  from KX the 1045/1218/1436 should be popular,  I'm not sure about the 0545,  travelling to KX for a 0545 departure can be tricky on the Underground

[hexagon789]

3 hours ago, Pandora said:

Looking at the M-F timetable,  pathways are all comfortably outside the peak period,  from KX the 1045/1218/1436 should be popular,  I'm not sure about the 0545,  travelling to KX for a 0545 departure can be tricky on the Underground

I think that is to try an get a march on LNER by offering such an early journey opportunity.

 

I should point out this timetable is valid from January next year.

 

At their October launch only certain services will operate.

 

 

[Pandora]

I notice the  service will serve the weekend traveller seeking  out of London Friday evening ,  return Sunday evening,  students and workers who migrated to London for careers and make a return to the North "the Motherland" to visit parents etc.  the reduction from 5 trains  each way / day to 4 on Saturdays,  is that due to engineering works, low demand, or lack of  pathways?

 

Another oddity is the Saturday / Only Edinburgh 1958 which terminates at  Newcastle,  Is this a positioning move for maintenance examinations?

Edited September 10, 2021 by Pandora

[DY444]

On 08/09/2021 at 19:44, lmsforever said:

• I hope that  this operation succeeds as it is providing a well priced service at last for passengers maybe others will follow as fares are ridiculous..  I agree with Nearholmer about what the ideas are behind the project ignore the name and see people new to rail trying it out.LNER need a kick up the backside as their latest cockup with timetables shows, its been put back to next year NR are not happy with them.The ecml needs competition as does the wcml  hope First win.

 

I'm going to York next Friday.  I've just booked my tickets.  £50 first class return: 0830 LNER ex KGX, 1858 LNER ex YRK.  That is a ridiculous fare but not in the way you mean.

 

If you look at the background to the ECML timetable fiasco you will find that LNER are a relatively minor contributor to the farce.  Others, such as NR and the DfT, are much more culpable.

[Pandora]

Are there any LNER Drivers on the forum who may look at the timetable and share their  thoughts on the diagramming and crew rostering for the service?

How will the service be diagrammed? For a single driver, who will  work a train Terminus to Terminus?   Will there be a crew change at Newcastle?

How will the roster fit for statutory  rest period of minimum 12 hours between duties and hours "in the seat"  of driving within the turn? 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Pandora

[Ian Hargrave]

24 minutes ago, Pandora said:

I notice the  service will serve the weekend traveller seeking  out of London Friday evening ,  return Sunday evening,  students and workers who migrated to London for careers and make a return to the North "the Motherland" to visit parents etc.  the reduction from 5 trains  each way / day to 4 on Saturdays,  is that due to engineering works, low demand, or lack of  pathways?

 

Another oddity is the Saturday / Only Edinburgh 1958 which terminates at  Newcastle,  Is this a positioning move for maintenance examinations?

 
I think you’ll find it forms the early NCL-KGX on Sunday. Over the next couple of months there is in fact disruption to NCL-EDN services at weekends  due to engineering works though it’s atm uncertain as to its effect on the new LUMO services 

[Zomboid]

6 hours ago, Pandora said:

I'm not sure about the 0545,  travelling to KX for a 0545 departure can be tricky on the Underground

I wouldn't be surprised if that was aimed at getting people to drive to join at Stevenage.

[Michael Hodgson]

7 hours ago, Pandora said:

Looking at the M-F timetable,  pathways are all comfortably outside the peak period,  from KX the 1045/1218/1436 should be popular,  I'm not sure about the 0545,  travelling to KX for a 0545 departure can be tricky on the Underground

Yeah, but that 0545 is the one that I would be most likely to catch as its's the most convenient - it stops at Stevenage 25 minutes later and a 1010 arrival in Edinburgh would mean I have plenty of time to catch a connection to Aberdeen or Inverness for a train to Elgin. 

 

I am assuming that will work out a lot cheaper than using the existing services and it's gotta be less hassle than Queasyjet out of Luton.

[RichardT]

Of far more interest to us track bashers: does anyone know if the LUMO services will run through York station, or take the avoiding lines currently only used for freight?  RTT is ambiguous on that point.

 

Richard T

[Gilbert]

2 minutes ago, RichardT said:

Of far more interest to us track bashers: does anyone know if the LUMO services will run through York station, or take the avoiding lines currently only used for freight?  RTT is ambiguous on that point.

 

Richard T

Is this a training run? I'm sure I did read that service trains will "avoid" York

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:N20128/2021-09-10/detailed

 

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C41681/2021-09-10/detailed

 

Chris

[woodenhead]

As freight trains pass through York station now I doubt they would route the LUMO service round the back when it can simply slide through the station like any other service that isn't stopping.