Lyneworth Phase 2

[ITG]

Like that a lot, Phil. But an added thought…….. assuming the branch line passing Lyneworth is currently at a higher level than the adjacent platform (thus not accessible for passengers), is it possible/feasible/realistic to have a dual level platform so that the branch is accessible there, thus allowing a shuttle to run independently between the two stations? Obviously the architecture of the station buildings would need altering, possible to an overhead building. Also, if one wanted to level that new platform road, it may increase the gradient both before and after it.

Any thoughts?

[Chimer]

Lyneworth High Level (linked by footpath and subway to the main line platforms) in the bottom right hand corner? 

 

Sticking the backscene on the branchline viaduct / lifting flap, hiding the tight curves and crossover on the main line, is a really cool idea ......

 

[The Stationmaster]

On 16/09/2021 at 22:32, Harlequin said:

Storage loops on the lifting section seems to be a contradiction in terms...

 

You can't store anything there when you want to lift the section to get in or out.

 

Definitely so however some of us have little choice in planning because of the position of a door. (guess who decided where the door should go )

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Chimer said:

Lyneworth High Level (linked by footpath and subway to the main line platforms) in the bottom right hand corner? 

 

Sticking the backscene on the branchline viaduct / lifting flap, hiding the tight curves and crossover on the main line, is a really cool idea ......

 

Not a problem at all although it depends on the relative levels.  Quakers Yard Low level was linked to Quakers Yard High Level by what was a footbridge at the low level station but ended up at some steps leading up to platform level at the high level station.   You can see how it worked in this lot of photos - the footbridge also crossed over the exchange sidings between the two stations hence the long extra span you see in some views -

http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/quakersyard_lowlevelstation.htm

 

 

[Harlequin]

2 hours ago, ITG said:

Like that a lot, Phil. But an added thought…….. assuming the branch line passing Lyneworth is currently at a higher level than the adjacent platform (thus not accessible for passengers), is it possible/feasible/realistic to have a dual level platform so that the branch is accessible there, thus allowing a shuttle to run independently between the two stations? Obviously the architecture of the station buildings would need altering, possible to an overhead building. Also, if one wanted to level that new platform road, it may increase the gradient both before and after it.

Any thoughts?

 

2 hours ago, Chimer said:

Lyneworth High Level (linked by footpath and subway to the main line platforms) in the bottom right hand corner? 

 

Sticking the backscene on the branchline viaduct / lifting flap, hiding the tight curves and crossover on the main line, is a really cool idea ......

 

 

31 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Not a problem at all although it depends on the relative levels.  Quakers Yard Low level was linked to Quakers Yard High Level by what was a footbridge at the low level station but ended up at some steps leading up to platform level at the high level station.   You can see how it worked in this lot of photos - the footbridge also crossed over the exchange sidings between the two stations hence the long extra span you see in some views -

http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/quakersyard_lowlevelstation.htm

 

 

 

Just to be clear for Clive, the "shuttle" idea would allow a DMU to automatically run back and forth on the branch line without getting tangled up with other train operations. So you could just set it going and ignore it while you do other things.

 

The gradients and heights are generous enough to allow for a small level section somewhere on the branch line so "Lyneworth High Level" halt is definitely possible with a pedestrian connection via steps or by extending the footbridge.

 

It would also be possible to give the branch line it's own spur under Millhampton to give a longer shuttle run without having to cross onto main line tracks. But having one end of the shuttle run hidden might be less satisfying...

 

(And if the layout was computer controlled the shuttle service could run down into it's intended home, the Millhampton bay - but that's getting silly!)

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Harlequin

[Newbie2020]

11 hours ago, Zomboid said:

The viability of a peninsula really depends on the size and mobility of the OP. I've essentially sketched 5' of track width in the 8' space, and whilst boards can be tapered to increase the gaps in some places, there's still only 8' to use. I only imagined the bottom gap to be emergency access to the loops so it could be narrow, but it may still not work...

Average size, mobility fine (mostly lol)

[Newbie2020]

11 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Just to push the through-station + fiddle-yard + BLT concept to a conclusion and to show that it could be a nice workable design for someone, if not you Clive, here's where I got to with my idea.

 

This is the main level:

At Lyneworth I added carriage sidings, laid out the MPD and increased the length of the headshunt.

The fiddle yard loops have been joggled to clear the support posts for Millhampton and an extra crossover added to get branch traffic onto the inner through line as directly as possible, leaving the loops purely for storage.

Simple lifting flap across the doorway with straight track joints - easy to build.

 

And then the high level, terminating at something like 170mm above the main level:

The branch line climbs behind Lyneworth @ 1 in 50, separated by a retaining wall which becomes a viaduct and crosses over the main line (always fun to see one train running above another).

It spans the doorway on another lifting flap, also with straight track joints. The angle allows the curve into Millhampton to be more open than the 2nd and 3rd radius curves nearby on the main level.

Millhampton is your classic BLT but in the steam transition era the engine shed and/or the goods shed have been sold off and are now occupied by local businesses, such as perhaps a brewery.

 

Millhampton leaves the bulk of the fiddle yard open for access and the covered parts are easily within reach.

 

If you add minimal viaduct-top detail to the branch line flap and a simple sky backscene around the room behind it, it could look very effective and give you scenery all round the room.

 

Wow! That's impressive! That would definitely stretch my skills but it's very tempting. I was struggling a bit to get where you were going with this - but I can see it clearly now.

 

This needs thought!

 

Clive

[Zomboid]

And now for something completely different, but it is an evolution...

 

I went full CJF (well not quite, it's all on one level), and there's no freight scope, so any such trains will just rumble through with the actual shunting done elsewere. The terminus has carriage sidings and a small MPD (which I haven't drawn), and acts as essentially a loco operated fiddle yard. The circle R2 set track of track forms a dogbone in both directions, and tail-chasing is possible. I think there's enough to be getting on with that the lack of freight ops won't be an issue. @Harlequinwill recognise where I got the terminus throat and concept from.

 

Pointwork in anyrail is free of course, but not in the real world...

 

[Chimer]

I'm not sure about the need for the path from the top junction platform to the branch through the right hand throat , or the facing crossover approaching the junction from the branch (deleting both would save 4 points and 3 diamonds!) but that does look like a lot of fun for varied passenger operations.

[Zomboid]

I started out planning to pair the platforms by direction, and at some point it got muddled into paired by use, so it's all a bit confused through there. With a more clear headed design that major junction could be altered to something more sensible. I liked the idea of a long string of diamonds though, reminiscent of places like Princes Risborough or Tonbridge.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

It doesn't look like you have room to shunt the terminus platforms/carriage sidings without encroaching on the through station approach. In any case, won't it look a little odd with the front of the train being shunted sticking out of the end of the tunnel.

 

Is that circle bottom right actually doable with regards wiring?

[Zomboid]

Updated the junction station. It's more of a place where engines are changed etc again now thanks to the centre road, though I think the terminus is now oversized if the locos for the junction come from the MPD there.

Anyway, it's quite fun designing these things...

[Harlequin]

47 minutes ago, Jeremy C said:

Is that circle bottom right actually doable with regards wiring?

 

No problem with a DCC auto-reverser, or reversers, feeding a suitably large isolated section or sections. You could drive in and out in any direction and never notice even a twitch from your loco.

 

The sections must be large enough to hold the longest train to avoid problems and I think there's room enough in Zomboid's plan, given that trains are unlikely to be much longer than the platforms, at around ~6ft. 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Harlequin

[Zomboid]

It should be doable with DC as well. Each section of rail can only be + or -, it's just a matter of working out what combinations there are and switching it accordingly. It would probably be quite complex though.

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, Zomboid said:

It should be doable with DC as well. Each section of rail can only be + or -, it's just a matter of working out what combinations there are and switching it accordingly. It would probably be quite complex though.

Straightforward enough and I think it could even be done with DPDT switches although relays would make it simpler for operators.  My main concern about is that it is very restrictive curvature wise as it is about 18"  radius so is it a tad smaller than 2nd radius curves?

[Zomboid]

35 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

My main concern about is that it is very restrictive curvature wise as it is about 18"  radius so is it a tad smaller than 2nd radius curves?

I used R2 set track for that, though obviously the set track turnouts don't have perfectly circular geometry.

 

There's only 3 possible configurations for the balloon loop:

1. Circuits

2. Balloon from the left

3. Balloon from the top

It might be wise to motorise the points to operate together such that only those can be set, but after that it ought to be easy enough.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Zomboid

[davidparker172]

On 20/09/2021 at 08:19, Harlequin said:

Just to push the through-station + fiddle-yard + BLT concept to a conclusion and to show that it could be a nice workable design for someone, if not you Clive, here's where I got to with my idea.

 

This is the main level:

At Lyneworth I added carriage sidings, laid out the MPD and increased the length of the headshunt.

The fiddle yard loops have been joggled to clear the support posts for Millhampton and an extra crossover added to get branch traffic onto the inner through line as directly as possible, leaving the loops purely for storage.

Simple lifting flap across the doorway with straight track joints - easy to build.

 

And then the high level, terminating at something like 170mm above the main level:

The branch line climbs behind Lyneworth @ 1 in 50, separated by a retaining wall which becomes a viaduct and crosses over the main line (always fun to see one train running above another).

It spans the doorway on another lifting flap, also with straight track joints. The angle allows the curve into Millhampton to be more open than the 2nd and 3rd radius curves nearby on the main level.

Millhampton is your classic BLT but in the steam transition era the engine shed and/or the goods shed have been sold off and are now occupied by local businesses, such as perhaps a brewery.

 

Millhampton leaves the bulk of the fiddle yard open for access and the covered parts are easily within reach.

 

If you add minimal viaduct-top detail to the branch line flap and a simple sky backscene around the room behind it, it could look very effective and give you scenery all round the room.

 

Phil

I just have to say that this layout has blown my mind.

I have just discovered this thread tonight trying to soak it all in, but then you arrived with this bobby dazzler!

I am only a newbie but even I can see that this deserves to be built

If only it would fit in my 8x16 room with the door in  different place 

 

 

[Harlequin]

@Newbie2020 Hi Clive, I’d like to add my suggested plan above to my track plans album. OK? I can change the station names if you’d like to keep them for yourself.

 

@davidparker172 It sounds like you’ve got a very usable space to make a layout that meets your particular needs, which will be different from anyone else’s in the world. Even a slightly different door position might require a radically different design.

 

[Newbie2020]

16 hours ago, Harlequin said:

@Newbie2020 Hi Clive, I’d like to add my suggested plan above to my track plans album. OK? I can change the station names if you’d like to keep them for yourself.

 

@davidparker172 It sounds like you’ve got a very usable space to make a layout that meets your particular needs, which will be different from anyone else’s in the world. Even a slightly different door position might require a radically different design.

 

Absolutely fine by me Phil. I'm having to put all on a back burner for a bit due to eldderly parent problems, but hope to be back "on track" soon.

 

Clive

[RobinofLoxley]

On 11/10/2021 at 19:03, davidparker172 said:

Phil

I just have to say that this layout has blown my mind.

I have just discovered this thread tonight trying to soak it all in, but then you arrived with this bobby dazzler!

I am only a newbie but even I can see that this deserves to be built

If only it would fit in my 8x16 room with the door in  different place 

 

 

Dont give up ! 8 x 16 is not that different from 5.3M x 2.4. And if the door is a problem, they can sometimes be reversed to open out, or what about a stable type door with top and bottom sections quite common in cottages but not often seen in new builds.

[RobinofLoxley]

@Harlequin Im slightly puzzled why you have a pair of facing points on the lift-out section. I can see that it provides access to the main part of the fiddle yard but it can be accessed by reversing in from the opposite end.

[davidparker172]

19 hours ago, Harlequin said:

@Newbie2020 Hi Clive, I’d like to add my suggested plan above to my track plans album. OK? I can change the station names if you’d like to keep them for yourself.

 

@davidparker172 It sounds like you’ve got a very usable space to make a layout that meets your particular needs, which will be different from anyone else’s in the world. Even a slightly different door position might require a radically different design.

 

@Harlequin yep, its my long term build plan  As i am new to all this i am currently collecting items ready to build a small shunting layout to get my eye in and understand the basics, with a view to aiming high with a designated railway room in the future.

However, I, like a lot of people it seems, have no imagination when it comes to designing a layout.....this might be where you come in 

Edited October 13, 2021 by davidparker172

[Harlequin]

17 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

@Harlequin Im slightly puzzled why you have a pair of facing points on the lift-out section. I can see that it provides access to the main part of the fiddle yard but it can be accessed by reversing in from the opposite end.

If you reversed in from the opposite end then (a.) that's a lot of vehicles being propelled over a lot of turnouts, increasing the risk of derailments and (b.) for a lot of those moves the train would appear out of the tunnel on the right and then reverse back into it, which would be unrealistic and annoying (to me anyway).

 

It's much nicer and simpler to be able to drive directly into any storage loop. You can then imagine the train heading off to its destination, only to be seen again when it’s properly scheduled to come back.

 

The lifting flap is a valuable section of straight track, which cries out to be used in some way to help fit everything in the room. Imagine how much shorter the storage loops would be if the crossover had to be somewhere up at the top. It adds a bit of complexity to the wiring of the lifting flap but I think that's a compromise well worth making.

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Harlequin

[Newbie2020]

Hi Everyone,

 

Been a bit tied up with family stuff but the decision has now been made. I'm going to go ahead and "attempt" Harlequins two level idea.

 

The shed arrives next week so I can clear the garage out and then work will start in earnest. I'll keep everyone updated with pics and stuff as I go along, I'll probably start a fresh thread for it as soon as I get going!

 

Thanks everyone for their input so far, feels like a real communal layout already!

 

Clive

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Newbie2020