Proposed, cancelled and never were models

[tomparryharry]

Slightly off-topic, but I didn't know that Airfix Railways made the old-tyme western railroad coach. I haven't seen one 'in the flesh', but the Alexander, Newport, Docks & railway had some Buffalo Bill coaches when the circus returned to the 'states.

[Geep7]

10 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

Slightly off-topic, but I didn't know that Airfix Railways made the old-tyme western railroad coach. I haven't seen one 'in the flesh', but the Alexander, Newport, Docks & railway had some Buffalo Bill coaches when the circus returned to the 'states.

And they made a 4-4-0 American tender loco to go with them as well. Pretty good models for the time.

[D9020 Nimbus]

Some 'N' gauge models which were proposed but not made:

 

Lima

New tooling class 31 (completely different from the earlier out of scale one they did); would have included a "Skinhead” version

 

Peco proposed a number of models (these were described in a Railway Modeller special), including:

GW 15xx

LSWR O2

 

More recently:

Farish 9F, J72, class 222 Meridian

Dapol J72 (cancelled after the Farish version was announced — that was later cancelled itself)

 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I think old Railway Modellers of the appropriate vintage will have some photos - one I can definitely recall was the Airfix LMS compound, which looked much better proportioned than the Hornby one of the same era.

[Steamport Southport]

4 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

And they made a 4-4-0 American tender loco to go with them as well. Pretty good models for the time.

 

Two. Jupiter and 119.

 

Not made by Airfix though. They were standard Bachmann models sold under licence and are still in the Bachmann US catalogue I believe. Or were until recently.

 

 

Jason

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

9 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Peco proposed a number of models (these were described in a Railway Modeller special), including:

GW 15xx

LSWR O2

 

Didn't Peco also feature a 2251 in their catalogues from about 1975 onwards? 

 

ISTR it finally appeared in the 2000s, only to vanish pretty promptly, accompanied by the sound of raspberries...

 

In one of the RM annuals, there is a whole section of Peco neverwazzas, including a Brit, 8F and a Brush type 4.  I'll look it out later.

[Steamport Southport]

19 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

Didn't Peco also feature a 2251 in their catalogues from about 1975 onwards? 

 

ISTR it finally appeared in the 2000s, only to vanish pretty promptly, accompanied by the sound of raspberries...

 

In one of the RM annuals, there is a whole section of Peco neverwazzas, including a Brit, 8F and a Brush type 4.  I'll look it out later.

 

PECO did have a 2251 in their catalogue in the 1970s though. Part of their short lived loco kit range.

 

It was a kit to fit on the Grafar 94XX chassis. I think it was made by Langley and then ended up in the Langley range. Still got one somewhere.

 

https://www.langleymodels.co.uk/awd1/index.php?route=product/product&path=208_219&product_id=5059

 

 

Jason

Edited September 9, 2021 by Steamport Southport

[Ben B]

One really mad one...  I can remember an article in old Model Railway Enthusiast (I think) on the Triang Minic ride-on miniature railway, a bonkers commercial idea if ever there was one.  There was a drawn illustration for what looked basically like a miniature version of the "Nellie"/"Polly"/"Connie" tank locos, and a mention of goods stock.  I do wonder if they'd have had more luck with the range with a steam-outline loco rather than the SR electro-diesel, but then the whole concept of a home miniature line seems pretty mad.

 

Mindyou, I'd have one even now if I could

[John M Upton]

Then there was all the pipedream models that a certain defunct 'manufacturer' proposed which never appeared although the N scale Class 17 did emerge from the subsequent wreckage in the Bachmann EFE range.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I think we should exclude a certain defunct 'manufacturer' from this thread.  

 

I've a feeling if somebody somewhere declared an interest in a foleyfoley fobwinker, he'd jump into the thread and claim to be developing one in O, OO and N scale.

[adb968008]

Dapol class 81, some bodies were made, chassis was supposed to use the design of the castle/county/150/155/124 pod motor.

Edited September 9, 2021 by adb968008

[BernardTPM]

55 minutes ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Didn't Peco also feature a 2251 in their catalogues from about 1975 onwards? 

 

ISTR it finally appeared in the 2000s, only to vanish pretty promptly, accompanied by the sound of raspberries...

They originally proposed a range of tender drive models announcing the 2251 at the 1973 Toy Fair. From the March 1973 RM: "the Collet GWR 0-6-0 goods engine, the first of a line of PECO Wills kits to be powered by an entirely new tender power unit, now being developed. Further tender  0-6-0's for the "Big Four" are envisaged, indeed, a whole range of British prototypes will utilise this mechanism, which should revolutionise the approach to N Gauge in this country."

 

The R-T-R version that finally arrived nearly 40 years later was quite unrelated to the earlier one.

 

36 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

PECO did have a 2251 in their catalogue in the 1970s though. Part of their short lived loco kit range.

 

It was a kit to fit on the Grafar 94XX chassis. I think it was made by Langley and then ended up in the Langley range. Still got one somewhere.

https://www.langleymodels.co.uk/awd1/index.php?route=product/product&path=208_219&product_id=5059

The Langley kit was not the proposed Peco model. Peco had done loco kits to fit various Arnold chassis in the mid/late '60s (they were at that  time Arnold's official importers) but they were in conjuction with Wills. The proposed  2251 would have had a body kit by Wills too.

[AndrueC]

APT-E for N-gauge. A Canadian company did one but Revolution gave up (this year) due to lack of interest.

 

Princess Elizabeth for N-gauge. Farish made a Queen Elizabeth (I have one) but not the more famous sister. No idea why that's never been done. Some kind of 'rights issue'?

Edited September 9, 2021 by AndrueC

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I think we should exclude a certain defunct 'manufacturer' from this thread.  

 

I've a feeling if somebody somewhere declared an interest in a foleyfoley fobwinker, he'd jump into the thread and claim to be developing one in O, OO and N scale.

 

Why?

 

Still relevant to the history of model railways.

 

A bit like writing the history of football and leaving out Manchester United because you don't like them.

[Allegheny1600]

Fleischmann were going to introduce a Bullied Pacific in H0 scale, they had measured one up and I understand, were making everything ready to produce it into their then British range.

This was the reason why they actually did do the matching coaches along with the D800 Warship (chosen by Mr Fleischmann himself due to its similarity to the V200), they were also planning a range of wagons too but I forget which.

 

All these models were planned to be complimentary to the then existing Lima range albeit that was cheaper and lower quality however the importer of Lima had them change to 00 to increase sales and that was that. Without a complimentary range, Fleischmann took around thirty years or more to sell off their remaining stock and only right at the very end did they discount it all.

More or less as related to me by Mr Hills, the UK importer.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Allegheny1600
Context

[Dagworth]

1 hour ago, Ben B said:

One really mad one...  I can remember an article in old Model Railway Enthusiast (I think) on the Triang Minic ride-on miniature railway, a bonkers commercial idea if ever there was one.  There was a drawn illustration for what looked basically like a miniature version of the "Nellie"/"Polly"/"Connie" tank locos, and a mention of goods stock.  I do wonder if they'd have had more luck with the range with a steam-outline loco rather than the SR electro-diesel, but then the whole concept of a home miniature line seems pretty mad.

 

Mindyou, I'd have one even now if I could

The Minic Ride-on trains did actually exist

https://www.collectors-club-of-great-britain.co.uk/articles/tri-ang-minic-the-ride-on-railway/

[AndrueC]

1 hour ago, AndrueC said:

APT-E for N-gauge. A Canadian company did one but Revolution gave up (this year) due to lack of interest.

 

Princess Elizabeth for N-gauge. Farish made a Queen Elizabeth (I have one) but not the more famous sister. No idea why that's never been done. Some kind of 'rights issue'?

Whoah, that's interesting. Just happened to come across this:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224559703301?hash=item3448cd2505:g:kJcAAOSwvZ9hCqkQ

 

Found some other references to 'kit built on Farish chassis' so presumably not RTR.

Edited September 9, 2021 by AndrueC

[BernardTPM]

That looks like the old D&M kit, now sold by B.H. Enterprises. Reasonably neat and more accurate than the Lone Star Tri-ang clone, but hardly to current standards.

Edited September 9, 2021 by BernardTPM

[009 micro modeller]

In 009/H0e there’s the various Eggerbahn pre-production or planned models (including some kind of Zillertalbahn loco) as covered in Brian Meldon’s 009 News articles. However I also seem to remember reading somewhere about a proposed Lilliput model of the Welshpool & Llanfair locos, I think actually in 3.5mm scale to go with the relevant continental carriages already produced and because the prototypes are 2’ 6” gauge.

[Ben B]

1 hour ago, Dagworth said:

The Minic Ride-on trains did actually exist

https://www.collectors-club-of-great-britain.co.uk/articles/tri-ang-minic-the-ride-on-railway/

 

Sorry, I should have been clearer: I knew the range existed, it was more the proposed, but never produced, tank loco I was thinking about. Thanks for the link though, it's always interesting reading more info.

 

It does make me smile when some modellers complain about Hornby these days doing stuff slightly off-brand like Steampunk or cartoony starter sets. I just remember they evolved out of Triang, who gleefully produced ride-on miniature lines for the back garden, Big-Big 0-gauge toy sets, and other equally madcap diversions from their main range

[Monkersson]

7 hours ago, Wolf27 said:

Replica Railways has some bold plans in the late 80’s 

http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/images/stories/Downloads/5yrplan1986.pdf

 

Thanks for posting this .pdf, very interesting - all those 25kv EMU's make me tremble!

 

What I found interesting was the line about the market "At present Hornby and Lima take more than 55% between them, the former mainly due to brand name". 

 

There are so many people that buy only Hornby, and so many people who haven't heard of any other manufacturer, I wonder what Hornby's market share is these days.

 

It was also interesting to read that Replica noticed the resurgence in interest of teenagers in the hobby, and also the fact that they were planning products that would be perfect partners for other brands' stock (3rd rail EMU's)

 

 

[RichardT]

3 hours ago, AndrueC said:

 

Princess Elizabeth for N-gauge. Farish made a Queen Elizabeth (I have one) but not the more famous sister. No idea why that's never been done. Some kind of 'rights issue'?

Not really a “rights issue”, more that ‘Queen Elizabeth’ is a different class of loco from ‘Princess Elizabeth’. For modern standards would need new tooling and a new chassis. Nonetheless, a surprising omission, especially given that two Lizzies are preserved, and there’s a jubilee pending…

 

RT

 

PS For clarity: ‘Queen Elizabeth’ was named after Princess Elizabeth’s mother - George VI’s consort. 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by RichardT

[BernardTPM]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I also seem to remember reading somewhere about a proposed Lilliput model of the Welshpool & Llanfair locos, I think actually in 3.5mm scale to go with the relevant continental carriages already produced and because the prototypes are 2’ 6” gauge.

Yes. Mentioned as forthcoming in RM April 1969 report on Nuremburg with an illustration in the following month's issue.

 

In the March 1969 issue as well as the 10 ft. w.b.  Wonderful Wagons for N, a GWR 1366 Pannier was illustrated as a forthcoming Peco product, along with a GWR toad brake van. Neither happened, though both Graham Farish and later Lima did the GWR Toad. The 1366 with it's small wheels and outside cylinders (and the illustration clearly was not based around an Arnold chassis, but correctly had the connection rods on the centre wheels), perhaps a slightly unsual choice. Though Peco showed the 10' w.b. wagons first, Farish brought theirs out at the beginning of 1970 while the Peco ones  didn't appear until early 1971.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Peco remind me of my first girlfriend.

 

Promised me my wildest dreams and never delivered any of them. 

[AndrueC]

34 minutes ago, RichardT said:

Not really a “rights issue”, more that ‘Queen Elizabeth’ is a different class of loco from ‘Princess Elizabeth’.

Yeah I was just wondering if manufacturers entered into agreements for the rights to reproduce locomotives. Hornby produces an OO version of PE so could they have exclusive rights and thus be blocking production of N gauge versions?

 

It seems odd that we only get the QE which is a less illustrious loco.

Edited September 9, 2021 by AndrueC