Proposed, cancelled and never were models

[BernardTPM]

Another one for Tri-ang Hornby, this time in 1969 as part  of their extensive 'Freightliner' range.

R.575 A.E.C. Articulated Tractor and Trailer with 30ft. ISO Tartan Arrow & container.

 

The AEC version of Leyland's 'Ergo' cab in 4mm scale a few decades before the EFE version, if it had happened. The Tartan Arrow container was made, but sadly not the AEC lorry. In some ways it was odd they didn't use the already tooled cab part of their Minic Motorways Bedford TK on a new artic chassis, given BR used a lot of TKs.

Edited September 9, 2021 by BernardTPM

[AndrueC]

Finally had some time for better research and it was Rapido who did the APT-E I was thinking of but it was OO gauge.

 

 

Looks awesome.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by AndrueC

[laurenceb]

Dapol back in Dave Boyle days were going to do an LMS Garret and at least one other (wd 2-8-0?)

[BernardTPM]

On 09/09/2021 at 16:58, adb968008 said:

Dapol class 81, some bodies were made, chassis was supposed to use the design of the castle/county/150/155/124 pod motor.

Those were probably the old Liliput (also sold as Trix) AL1 bodies. They sold quite a few Trix Trans-Pennine bits too aroud that time.

Edited September 25, 2021 by BernardTPM

[Kris]

How has DJ models not been mentioned yet????

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

24 minutes ago, Kris said:

How has DJ models not been mentioned yet????

 

It has, but I think we got away with it....

[BernardTPM]

6 hours ago, AndrueC said:

Princess Elizabeth for N-gauge. Farish made a Queen Elizabeth (I have one) but not the more famous sister. No idea why that's never been done. Some kind of 'rights issue'?

Just economics - 38 Princess Coronations built, only 12 Princess Royals.

They must be working their way towards somebody's 'to do' list by now though, I'd have thought.

 

 

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, Kris said:

How has DJ models not been mentioned yet????

 

DJM gets a mention in the OP......

 

DJM related  - i.e. in the days of Dapol Dave.

The not so glamourous MLA bogie box wagons - in EWS red with Swing-Motion bogies and Network Rail yellow with Axle motion 3s according to a conversation I had with Dave at the time.

Announced in 2010.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by newbryford

[John M Upton]

I think pretty much all of Dapol's catalogue could qualify, especially their N scale as it seems forever if at all before anything actually appears.

[Patrick SPF]

Lima were at one point in the late 1980's / early 1990's going to produce a Swedish Z43/Z49 along with a Norwegian version of the loco as well, I do remember always considering many of the Lima announcements with a pinch of salt!

 

[33C]

Kitmaster and the U.S.A. Tank and A3.......

[009 micro modeller]

8 hours ago, Ben B said:

the whole concept of a home miniature line seems pretty mad.

 

6 hours ago, Dagworth said:

The Minic Ride-on trains did actually exist

https://www.collectors-club-of-great-britain.co.uk/articles/tri-ang-minic-the-ride-on-railway/

 

But of course some people do have home ride-on lines, just usually on smaller gauges. I’ve seen pictures of, and magazine articles about, quite a few 5 inch gauge lines built in fairly ordinary sized gardens for instance. What confuses me with Minic is why they chose such a wide gauge (as opposed to, say, 7 1/4 inch - was it for stability of the coaches?), and how they nevertheless managed to get a fairly small minimum radius (I don’t know much about this but presumably a normal 10 1/4 inch gauge line requires more than a 12ft radius). I got the impression from reading elsewhere that it awkwardly ended up being a bit too big for domestic use yet slightly too light for the commercial operators who used it, but maybe someone else can shed more light on this?

 

The idea of supplying power via the rails also seems odd, especially as Big Big was battery powered - from reading about it elsewhere I understand some people had concerns about the idea of the system using live rails, although I don’t know if these were well-founded. I suppose two rail track power adds to the sense that it’s actually just a really enormous version of a Triang 00 gauge model railway, which makes it seem even more mad, but good. Since it had track power and apparently no brakes was it controlled in the same way as a conventional model loco, i.e. without the ability to coast? Several preserved Minic locos seem to have been converted to battery power to be able to run on conventional 10 1/4 inch gauge lines.

[AndrueC]

8 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

DJM gets a mention in the OP......

 

DJM related  - i.e. in the days of Dapol Dave.

The not so glamourous MLA bogie box wagons - in EWS red with Swing-Motion bogies and Network Rail yellow with Axle motion 3s according to a conversation I had with Dave at the time.

Announced in 2010.

 

I had a set of those in N gauge. Had to send them back as they were completely unable to negotiate any part of my layout. I know it's 2nd radius curves and Setrack turnouts (so 1st radius) but all the rest of my stock managed it. I put the blame on the (to my eyes) rubbish coupling mechanism:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MhXKtiJaCMs75iAc7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/pzL9zoA743hTacMW8

 

The coupler swings on an armature that is anchored into a V shaped groove at the back. The V points backward so that when the truck goes round a curve the armature is pulled outward along the appropriate arm as it rotates. There is a hair spring that is supposed to pull the armature back to centre. What actually happens is that the hair spring is far too weak so the armature remains stuck at the end of the arm and when the trucks straighten the couplings derail the wagons.

 

It's a shame because they looked gorgeous. They also nearly put me off Dapol for life, that and my Class 43 Miss Behaviour but at least I could fix her.

[Fat Controller]

Didn't Trix/ Liliput announce a Brush Type 4, and Freightliner stock in the mid 1960s?

Hornby did a strange thing. They issued a 4-wheel container flat and labelled it 'Conflat B'. If you look at the underframe, you'll see it's a very presentable model of the BR 21t mineral wagon, with the correct sort of Oleo buffer, brakeshoes in line with wheels, correct type of brake rigging etc. You have to ask 'Why?'.....

Edited September 10, 2021 by Fat Controller

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Right then, Peco.  And the wonders that never were, because Peco are just... odd

 

All taken from the 2016 Railway Modeller Annual, a fascinating article but in the manner of Beer, more hints and teasers than answers  - why did none of this go ahead?  The proposals look well thought out, and would surely have been popular.

 

N gauge

Produced but not released:

Universal Power Unit (from an un-named German supplier,  apparently the motor windings were 9v not 12v, and 'despite the huge investment that Peco had made in the project, both time and money, it was dropped.'  Did this torpedo everything else?  The article goes all coy at this point.

 

Physical protoytpes made:

LMS Duchess 

LMS 8F 

LMS 4F

GWR Castle 

lowmac

 

drawings only:

BR

Brush type 4

08 shunter

Britannia

 

GWR

8750

5700

5600*

4500

1500

1366

1361

2251 kit (brass masters and completed model shown)

 

SR

Q

M7

02

 

009

 

GVT coaches (plastic kit)

 

OO

 

rail built buffer stop (white metal kit)

traverser (plastic kit)

 

* the Collett 0-6-2T is mentioned in the text, but no drawing is shown.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

12 hours ago, Patrick SPF said:

Lima were at one point in the late 1980's / early 1990's going to produce a Swedish Z43/Z49 along with a Norwegian version of the loco as well, I do remember always considering many of the Lima announcements with a pinch of salt!

 

If Peco are like my first girlfriend, then Lima are like my second.  Cheap and widely available.

[RJS1977]

23 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Or you could have a scene where someone is nefariously pushed out of the train. I’m sure it could be made to work outside of stations too.

 

I'm pretty sure one of the GMRC trains did it on an Agatha Christie themed layout!

 

[BernardTPM]

1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Right then, Peco.  And the wonders that never were, because Peco are just... odd

009

RTR GVT coaches

These were made and are available, including in versions freelance colours and a matching, though non-prototypical, brake verion.

[BernardTPM]

2 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Didn't Trix/ Liliput announce a Brush Type 4, and Freightliner stock in the mid 1960s?

Their 1967/8 Catalogue features the Brush type 4  and also lists Mk.2 Pullman coaches, all three types.  Odd that Nos.1906 and 1907 appear to be the same type; perhaps they were intending to model the SO as well as the TSO. More likely one of the pictures should have been a brake coach.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

12 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

These were made and are available, including in versions freelance colours and a matching, though non-prototypical, brake verion.

 

If I'd read the article more carefully, I would have noticed that it was the 009 kits that were announced in 1977 and not released.   

 

But it said 009, and  I glazed over

 

[HonestTom]

I forget whether it was Kernow or Dapol (or both?) but a couple of years back there was going to be an O gauge Beattie well tank.

 

One I remember was that in Hornby's Thomas range, for a long time the boxes advertised a "Fat Controller, Driver and Fireman" set that never appeared.

[Steven B]

I'm sure Dapol's N Gauge "Magnificent Seven" included a Pendolino and a class 92 (both since done by Revolution Trains).

 

Steven B.

[GoingUnderground]

On 09/09/2021 at 13:09, tomparryharry said:

One model that nearly made it was the Triang-Minic Ro-Ro trailer.  It was in the 66-67 catalogue year, but I think it was cancelled.

If you mean the Road/Rail wagon that could run behind a tractor unit or hauled by a loco then it was made as I've seen it and the rest of the set for sale by a well known 2nd hand models dealer.

 

It was available as a set RM.925 comprising the wagon itself - RM.924, the tractor unit/mechanical horse M.1570 and the Railway adaptor bogie RM.923. They first appeared in the 1964 10th edition catalogue, and were featured on the back cover of the 1967 (13th edition) Triang Hornbycatalogue along with the rest of the Road/Rail Minic items, but not in the Tri-ang Hornby price list dated 23 January 1967. The same picture was on the back of a Minic Motorways catalogue from the same period and this version has the prices:

M.1570 Mechanical Horse 19/6 (98p)

RM.923 Railway Adaptor Bogie 3/11 (20p)

RM.924 Road Rail Wagon 9/11 (50p)

RM925 Road Rail Set containing all the above 32/6 (£1.63)

 

Wish I'd got one at the time. In good condition they're worth a lot of money these days.

[RichardT]

16 hours ago, AndrueC said:

Yeah I was just wondering if manufacturers entered into agreements for the rights to reproduce locomotives. Hornby produces an OO version of PE so could they have exclusive rights and thus be blocking production of N gauge versions?

Oh, I see - I misunderstood you. 
 

But still, no, I don’t think this is the case. Manufacturers might sometimes get exclusive licences for current liveries (which are trademarked and copyright-protected), although this is less of an issue than in the early days of rail privatisation  when some of the new boys thought that there were fortunes to be made from IPR!  
 

But in the case of BR and earlier locos & stock - no.*
 

It’s sometimes assumed in modelling circles that some manufacturers have “bagged” certain prototypes by way of an announcement or previous production. Hornby in particular currently seem to have an unfortunate attitude that some prototypes are “theirs”. But that’s not legally enforceable against other firms (quite the reverse in fact).
 

It’s down to a commercial risk assessment whether you produce a model of a prototype which someone else has already done, or announced.  In this case, as Hornby are completely uninterested in the UK N market, that risk is non-existent.
 

RT

 

*Tedious IPR discussion omitted at this point for the sake of sanity. Just trust me on this.

Edited September 10, 2021 by RichardT
Clarity.

[009 micro modeller]

2 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

If I'd read the article more carefully, I would have noticed that it was the 009 kits that were announced in 1977 and not released.   

 

But it said 009, and  I glazed over

 

 

If it’s 1977 then presumably it pre-dates the availability of the Dundas kits?