RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2021 On 09/09/2021 at 13:09, Flying Pig said: I can easily imagine a mechanical or electrical actuator under the user's control, so that the doors could be made to remain closed as a train passed. On the other hand it would give the option for passengers to be ejected from a moving train, TPO style. Hours of fun - what a pity it never made production. There is a European coach where the doors are controlled by DCC. There was a demo some years ago at Warley on one of the DCC system specialist's stand. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Moxy Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: If it’s 1977 then presumably it pre-dates the availability of the Dundas kits? Dundas Models were founded in 1979, so yes it would. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2021 Hornby in particular, as mentioned, seem to have a proprietorial attitude that certain prototypes are 'theirs' and react vigourously if anyone steps on their toes, as shown in the public tv spat between Simon Kohler and the bloke whose name I can't recall at the moment from Rails of Sheffield over the Terrier. This very probably led to Hornby's Terrier being developed more quickly and the large prairie being put back so that Hornby's Terrier could be released in time to go head to head with, and undercut, Rails'. The next chapter of the story was that Dapol announced a large prairie, so Hornby's was given priority and released late last year, while Dapol stepped back and concentrated on their new 43xx mogul; their large prairie, when it appears, will share a mech with the 43xx and the upcoming Manor. Hornby have had a Princess Elizabeth in the range since the 1948 Rovex model, and it has gone through many retoolings, and I can see why they would regard this as 'theirs', a part of their culture and tradition. But they inherited the Terrier, from Dapol originally, and the large prairie from Airfix via Mainline, so the attitude seems a bit unjustified to me. As has been correctly stated, there is no 'legal' status to any of this; the market is subject to free enterprise capitalist principles and laws preventing monopoly, cartels, or other malpractice. Within that framework, anybody can produce any model of any prototype they like (though current image may require livery/logo permission), at whatever price they like and whenever they like; it will succeed or fail according to the iron laws of the market, supply and demand, as fixed and immutable as the courses of the stars in the heavens. Hornby have in my opinion (I am not stating this to be a fact) clotted their botty book in the matter of the generic 4 and 6 wheelers as well, orignially apparently intending to produce them as LBSCR coaches (and possibly LSW and SER versions) to run with Terriers, then changing their minds and producing them to precede the Hattons' Genesis range to market, and significantly price matching Hattons'. This has been a bad move IMHO; we all know what they are up to and are aware that the Hornby coaches are inferior products to the propose Hattons', as well as being put out in liveries unsuitable for their LBSC air braked underframes. Hornby are of course doing nothing wrong, but this sort of aggressive competitive behaviour is, to my mind, counter productive to everybody involved, Hornby included. I am not sure of the legality of producing a correcly liveried model of a locomotive with the early 1956 Ferret and Dartboard totem facing right on the right hand side of the locomotive, as the rules of heraldry require it to face left; BR were hauled over the coals on this point at the time. ISTR there was a time when models produced in Germany were not allowed to display the swastika of Deutches Reichbahn, as the symbol could not be displayed legally in that country. I wonder how matters would have stood if the description 'authentic scale model' had required a model so described to actually be 'authentic' and to scale, which I suppose that in theory Trades Description legislation does actually require.. I would think most current models would be ok allowing for the 00 compromise, but some of the products of the 60s, 70s, and 80s would have been in big trouble (I'm looking at you, Triang Hornby and Lima). 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
90164 Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Yet Hornby didn't kick up a fuss when Bachman did the Jinty, a long-time staple of the Triang/Triang-Hornby and Hornby ranges. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2021 4 pages and no ones mentioned the elephant in the room… https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/233-djmodels/ what short memories we all have… 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium RichardT Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, adb968008 said: 4 pages and no ones mentioned the elephant in the room… It/he/they were mentioned right at the start (to be ruled out of the discussion) and several times since, after which we agreed to pretend that it/he/they were all a dream and not canon… RT 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2021 54 minutes ago, 90164 said: Yet Hornby didn't kick up a fuss when Bachman did the Jinty, a long-time staple of the Triang/Triang-Hornby and Hornby ranges. Good point, but it may well have been that different people were in the driving seat at Hornby at that time, or even that a fuss was kicked up, but a little less publicly than the Rails Terrier affair, in the full gaze of BBC film crews and Captain Slow... The later iterations of the Hornby Jinty were much cheaper than the Baccy loco, and of much poorer quality; perhaps H did not feel they were in a position to go head to head at the time. They have since come up with a very good 'hi fi' J50, showing that they can still cut the mustard, but perhaps view Bachmann's position with the current Jinty and 1F as unassailable. All of which is guesswork and supposition on my part; I do not have the inside track here! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, adb968008 said: 4 pages and no ones mentioned the elephant in the room… https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/233-djmodels/ what short memories we all have… I don’t think there’s enough space on the Internet to list his promised range. There are one or two of his ‘range’ that might be added, those that had an initial CAD, and tooling subsequently finished and marketed by professionals. N Gauge King (3D print at Warley, now KR) N Gauge Class 23 N Gauge Clayton (now EFE) N Gauge Shark (now EFE) OO APT (money taken, launch party) OO Gauge Hudswell Clark The O gauge variations as I recall were the same CADs just bigger so I feel they shouldn’t count. Other items which were clearly lies shouldn’t be included, eg 21T hoppers. The big difference between the other manufacturers listed that haven’t made proposed products and DJM, is they didn’t fleece their customers and clients like DJM did. If there was an category for nonexistent Prime Ministerial awards he’d be top of the pack on that one though. Edited September 10, 2021 by PMP Spelling 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Heljan proposed then cancelled an O gauge class 120 I recall. Also I seem to think Mainline were going to do a class 58. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2021 Olivia’s Trains OO Blue Pullman, complete with bathroom delivery and supply T&C’s. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, PMP said: I don’t think there’s enough space on the Internet to list his promised range. There are one or two of his ‘range’ that might be added, those that had an initial CAD, and tooling subsequently finished and marketed by professionals. N Gauge King (3D print at Warley, now KR) N Gauge Class 23 N Gauge Clayton (now EFE) N Gauge Shark (now EFE) OO APT (money taken, launch party) OO Gauge Hudswell Clark The O gauge variations as I recall were the same CADs just bigger so I feel they shouldn’t count. Other items which were clearly lies shouldn’t be included, eg 21T hoppers. The big difference between the other manufacturers listed that haven’t made proposed products and DJM, is they didn’t fleece their customers and clients like DJM did. If there was an category for fake Prime Ministerial awards he’d be top of the pack on that one though. And an N gauge 59 and APT, and a 92 in both gauges and and and…! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2021 Bachmann announced but walked back on a retooled Paralell Scot, and class 04… the retooled Turbostar seems to have gone quiet. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Good point, but it may well have been that different people were in the driving seat at Hornby at that time, or even that a fuss was kicked up, but a little less publicly than the Rails Terrier affair, in the full gaze of BBC film crews and Captain Slow... The later iterations of the Hornby Jinty were much cheaper than the Baccy loco, and of much poorer quality; perhaps H did not feel they were in a position to go head to head at the time. They have since come up with a very good 'hi fi' J50, showing that they can still cut the mustard, but perhaps view Bachmann's position with the current Jinty and 1F as unassailable. All of which is guesswork and supposition on my part; I do not have the inside track here! The J50 is good. But it's virtually a design clever era model that is probably Railroad Plus standard. Moulded on bunker lamp irons, poorly represented pipework, etc. Far from being Hi Fi I'm afraid, the Bachmann J72 is light years ahead of it. Someone who got an email from Hattons saying I buy LNER/ER Black things and then realising I have far too many of them..... Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
friscopete Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Didnt Eggerbahn promise a Maine 2-6-2 among others ? And lets not forget Blackstones K28 .......................... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) If going into individual model releases, theres quite a feast out there.. R2969 for example.. 72002 Clan Campbell in BR Lined Green with Late Crest.. lots of others.. Edited September 10, 2021 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) Anyone remember those Hornby teasers in the Engine Shed… one strongly suggested a 94xx was on the way, another was GWR 813. There is certainly one member here who might be able to write a whole thread on his own of what might have beens… going back further wasnt the Hornby class 81, sitting on a class 82 chassis. Edited September 10, 2021 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Just now, adb968008 said: Anyone remember those Hornby teasers in the Engine Shed… one strongly suggested a 94xx was on the way, another was GWR 813. There is certainly one member here who might be able to write a whole thread on his own of what might have beens. 94XX was explained. They pulled the plug when they heard Bachmann was doing one. The GWR 813 was mistaken identity. It was the Peckett B2 with the GWR vacuum pipes at Preston. The vacuum pipe was a red herring. Still waiting for Fonmon... https://ribblesteam.org.uk/exhibits/steam/peckett-0-6-0st-no-1636-1924-fonmon/ https://www.svrwiki.com/GWR_813_Saddle_Tank Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, adb968008 said: going back further wasnt the Hornby class 81, sitting on a class 82 chassis. Yes, because of the never released model I mentioned earlier. Shown as an artist's illustration in the 1964 catalogue, but as a pre-production mock-up, photographed for the 1965 catalogue. Obviously they must have already started on the bogie tooling. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) More recently Hattons canceled their Yob.. https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1484058/1000588/1000680/0/hattons_originals_oo_gauge_1_76_scale_track_maintenance_vehicles/prodlist.aspx The oo gauge King was also their project that got canned. Edited September 10, 2021 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2021 47 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Someone who got an email from Hattons saying I buy LNER/ER Black things and then realising I have far too many of them..... Jason I got one as well, also one for LMS black locos, not sure I have ever bought anything LNER black from Hattons. I'm waiting for their GWR black locos e-mail next......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Funnily enough I mostly buy GWR/WR and didn't get one of those. Had a look and I've just got a SR Olive Green one.... Wonder whether it's the fact I bought a LN last week. Back to proposed models. Didn't someone announce a Leader a few years back? (not KR) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 8 hours ago, BernardTPM said: Their 1967/8 Catalogue features the Brush type 4 and also lists Mk.2 Pullman coaches, all three types. Odd that Nos.1906 and 1907 appear to be the same type; perhaps they were intending to model the SO as well as the TSO. More likely one of the pictures should have been a brake coach. I'd like to see the rest of that catalogue! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, friscopete said: Didnt Eggerbahn promise a Maine 2-6-2 among others? I know there was some form of Zillertalbahn 0-6-2T planned at one stage (not a U class but a slightly different loco with unequally spaced coupled wheels). Not sure about a Maine loco - are you sure this wasn’t from the revived Minitrains? Edited September 10, 2021 by 009 micro modeller Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
friscopete Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: I know there was some form of Zillertalbahn 0-6-2T planned at one stage (not a U class but a slightly different loco with unequally spaces coupled wheels). Not sure about a Maine loco - are you sure this wasn’t from the revived Minitrains? Long before new Minitrains .It was drawing I think in a flyer . 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium RichardT Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, adb968008 said: More recently Hattons canceled their Yob And then there’s the Hatton’s N gauge LMS Garratt: not specifically cancelled yet, but unlikely to go ahead at the current level of promotion. Another example of manufacturers assuming that the 4mm collector’s market for oddities also exists in N and finding out it doesn’t - what’s wanted is core stock with wide distribution & uses (see also KR GT3 in N, Leader in N versus the success of Sonic’s 56xx & J50). RT Edited September 10, 2021 by RichardT Adding examples 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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