Vintage Ops with Triang and Hornby

[Chops]

 

Oscar Paisley, who may be located on YouTube, is really the grand master of vintage ops, myself, only a casual pretender. I love this old British stuff, it is so durable and unique. The Hornby oafer (0-4-0) is a newer wine in an old skin, and to slow it down I installed a special replacement motor with an improved worm to widen  the ratio. It did not make any difference. 

[GoingUnderground]

The modern Hornby 0-4-0 chassis as used on their cheaper 0-4-0s is a direct descendant of the Tri-ang Railways 0-4-0 from 1959, first used in the Steeple Cab R.252 (maroon with dummy plastic pantograph) and R.254 (green with a fully working pantograph). and R.359 (Black steam loco). R.355 steam locos (Nellie - Blue/Polly - Red/Connie- Yellow/27 - Green) and the North British diesel 0-4-0 R.559 also used this same chassis. All these locos use the X.04 motor with a twin start brass worm.

 

When Hornby (it is just a name as the current "Hornby" models owe nothing to the old Hornby Dublo system apart from the name, and the current Hornby system can trace its origins back to a train set first made in 1950 by Rovex Plastics Ltd. in London), stopped using the X.04 motor and changed to a can motor, they also seem to have changed to a single start nylon worm, which means that the later 0-4-0 locos with the can motors go like "scalded cats" as we say in the UK. If you can get one of the Tri-ang or Tri-ang Hornby R.355 models with the original X.04 motor then you'll find it is slightly more sedate.

 

The R.455 and R.255 0-4-0 steam locos from the early 1970s onwards have the same bodyshell as R.359 and R.355, but use a can motor. The first ones from this period use the old chassis with an adapter cradle to hold the can motor instead of the X.04, so they could in theory be retrofitted with an X.04 motor, but the worm may not mesh properly with the worm wheel (gear) as that too changed according to the service sheets, see sheets 19, 62, 82 and 82A here http://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_menu.asp.

 

I believe at some point the use of the old chassis was discontinued and a new one designed for the can motor and that new design cannot have an X.04 retrofitted.   

[dunwurken]

To me much of the nostalgia in relation to old layouts is the noise they make.  Would it be possible for the video to be reposted without the irrelevant and irritating Scottish themed music .

Malcolm

[Wolseley]

I agree with the comment about the sound track.  So many videos posted on YouTube have badly done commentaries - boring monotone voices, badly written (or more likely off-the-cuff) wording, bad music, or mindless waffle interspersed with umms and aahs.  I do not venture into YouTube that often but, when I do, I invariably turn the sound off, unless the commentary is essential (Ron Dodds' videos are the only ones I think would fall into this category and, oh, how I wish he would turn his radio off.

 

I have put three or four videos on YouTube myself, but they have no commentary or music at all, just trains rattling around on Dublo three rail track.

 

And, by the way, what on earth is a "vintage op" in the world of model railways?  A model railway item bought from an op shop?

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I must admit that I have virtually every building he has on this layout boxed up some where. Including the Battle of Waterloo farm house. All just waiting to leap out on to another layout.

[Il Grifone]

It seems everything must have background sound these days!

[cypherman]

Hi all,

The option for the sound is easy. Just turn it off in You Tube while you watch it. And yes it normally annoys me as well. But in this case I quite like the music, Just not on this video.

Edited September 12, 2021 by cypherman

[Il Grifone]

That only really works if their is no commentary. The closed captions on YouTube are rather less than perfect and also hide a lot of the picture.

[GoingUnderground]

I forgot to say that I enjoyed the video, music and all.

 

I must say, I don't personally regard it as "vintage ops" (running older models), as I still have all my Triang models and have added to them over the years and do run them. I'm currently modifying some coaches from the 1960s. Does running my Triang stuff from the 1960s make me a "vintage operator"? Very probably. I was watching a programme on TV last night "The last domino?" about the prog rock band Genesis's upcoming farewell tour, and seeing Tony Banks, and Mike Rutherford looking old and grey, and Phil Collins sitting whilst singing interspersed with pictures and videos of them from way back suddenly made me feel very old.

[Chops]

Well thank you for the suggestions. No, the video was done a while back, and removing the sound track would be onerous. Everyone doesn't like all music, and there are plenty of videos out there where you can watch a model train softly clattering about.  Personally, I find many videos to be utterly stultifying, and I like to bring out folk artists, often, that never get any airtime and are essentially unknown, if not forgotten. To each his own. Occasionally, I like to capture the sound of wheel on joint, but more than five seconds gets tiresome. But, thank you anyways. 

 

The Waterloo Farm House I picked up at a train show, decades ago, before the Internet was a thing, and finding anything remotely British was a trick. I pressed a couple of Faller kits into service, hoping it might be mistaken for Brighton, good luck with that. The Waterloo thing was appealing as it closely resembled a British riding stables where my elder sister took her lessons how not to fall off a horse. 

 

"Vintage Ops," is merely an off hand way of saying, "running old stuff." I, too, am vintage. Old. 

[locomad2]

On 10/09/2021 at 13:43, dunwurken said:

To me much of the nostalgia in relation to old layouts is the noise they make.  Would it be possible for the video to be reposted without the irrelevant and irritating Scottish themed music .

Malcolm

 

I still run many Triang, Hornby-Dublo, triang- Hornby locomotives, to me they have a charm or noise which is part of "vintage" rail modelling,  like the "kneelled" wheels of a 60 year old Triang pullman car. 

[roythebus1]

I think you mean knurled wheels? the ones with serrated treads? don't ever try to turn them in a lathe, they'll blunt every tool you use!

 

[Il Grifone]

5 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

I think you mean knurled wheels? the ones with serrated treads? don't ever try to turn them in a lathe, they'll blunt every tool you use!

 

 

Smooth replacements are available.

I fitted reamed out Dublo rolling stock wheels to my DMU.

[DCB]

Small Romford/ Markits wheels with the special "Triang" axle are a drop in replacement for the DMU / Blue Pullman power bogie (And Transcon Dock shunter)  if you can find any small enough.    Hymek/ AIA wheels are smooth but not insulated as they use a nylon  insulated axle.  The Blue Pullman needs weight at the bogie end of the body with smooth wheels or it has rice pudding skin removal  issues.    Knurled wheel power bogies are great, Fit a two start worm to one axle and a single to the other and you have a rail grinder cleaner which will keep your track shiny and clean as it grinds its way around the layout.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Don’t forget that the TC, and therefore the Dock shunter whose chassis is a TC EMB (earlier pattern) motor bogie, have larger wheels than the BR pattern EMB motor bogies used on the DMU, EMU, and Blue Pullman.

 

Late Dock Shunters and TC locos had smooth wheels from new, so late spares are out there for replacements, as well as those seen on eBay, etc.

 

I think that late issue DMUs, especially those with the A7 headcode, also have smooth wheels.

The LMB (later pattern) motor bogies were used on the EM2, A1A, EE type 3 (nominally 3 axles, the centre axle being a dummy), and the Hymek and TC Series Budd Railcar (2 axles).

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston
More added

[andyman7]

33 minutes ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

Don’t forget that the TC, and therefore the Dock shunter whose chassis is a TC EMB (earlier pattern) motor bogie, have larger wheels than the BR pattern EMB motor bogies used on the DMU, EMU, and Blue Pullman.

 

Late Dock Shunters and TC locos had smooth wheels from new, so late spares are out there for replacements, as well as those seen on eBay, etc.

 

I think that late issue DMUs, especially those with the A7 headcode, also have smooth wheels.

The LMB (later pattern) motor bogies were used on the EM2, A1A, EE type 3 (nominally 3 axles, the centre axle being a dummy), and the Hymek and TC Series Budd Railcar (2 axles).

 

 

 

Yes, both the larger (TC, Dock Shunter, E3001) and smaller (Blue Pullman, DMU) wheels went to a smooth tread around 1970. I used to get spares from Blackwalls years ago to swap out the earlier wheels but original stocks dried up a long time ago - I saw last weekend that a set of the smooth tread smaller wheels went for over £21!

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Ah yes, the E3001. I had forgotten that one, the only BR series loco to use the TC wheels, taking the Dock Shunter as a re livery of the TC Yard Switcher. It has the TC bogie frame, whereas the E3001 has its own design of bogie frame.

[roythebus1]

Didn't the E3001 have an AL2-ish bogie frame? the Hornby Dublo sideframes were much better, but the wheelbase was too short. The Trix AL1 wheelbase was a bit too long, but the sideframe patterns were made by the  late Adrian Swain of ABS models fame and were superbly detailed.

[BernardTPM]

Yes. Basically a slightly shortened AL2 bogie but with the bracket (body mounted on the prototype)  shaped like an AL1.  AL2-4 actually had a bogie wheelbase of 10 foot, so were shorter than AL1 & AL5 (and later) bogies. The Tri-ang bogie wheelbase was 37mm, or 9' 3", 3mm short of scale.

[locomad2]

14 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

I think you mean knurled wheels? the ones with serrated treads? don't ever try to turn them in a lathe, they'll blunt every tool you use!

 

Yes Knurled wheels which experience has taught us make excellent track cleaners, just run at full power and the slip grinds away the dirt on track, noise is all part of the nostalgia