Revolution Going underground! 1938 stock in N!

[Brian-1c]

Tube stock being hauled on main lines between match trucks was not an everyday sight, but it was far from rare. I have no pictures, but remember seeing one once along the Southern end of the West Coast main line, en route between operational area and factory. I also remember seeing pictures of such movements in the various publications, certainly of 1938 stock.

[Arun Sharma]

Standard stock was scrapped in a variety of places - The most obvious places in terms of being towed over BR lines being Kettering, Rotherwas Junction, Tapton Junction, Kingsbury [near Tamworth] and  [Birds of] Morriston. Plenty of photographic evidence exist - For example in Volume 2 of Brian Hardy's Photographic History of Standard Tube Stock. 

[stivesnick]

For people thinking about layout ideas to use this rolling stock, here are a couple of suggestions:

 

1. Central line between Action North and West Ruislip. This line has the former Western Region line from Paddington which joins the Marylebone line at Northolt. Although the main line has little traffic today, in the past there would have been regular passenger trains and a fair amount of freight. This section had until recently freight sidings for cement, stone and the Guinness brewery. 

 

Greenford station itself would be a challenge with the triangular junction on the main line towards West Ealing and the steep climb from the junction up to the platform. Not sure if the Dapol bubble car would cope with that. 

 

2. A more modest idea towards the eastern end of the Central Line. At Leyton, just east of Stratford station where the Central Line emerges from a tunnel, the southern end of Temple Mills yard had some PW sidings on the original Eastern Region line to Leytonstone. My Bakers Rail Atlas from 1984 shows the sidings in use at that time. You could have an Inglenook style BR sidings (or more) next to the underground line as it emerged from the tunnel. 

 

Regards 

 

Nick   

[Jonathan W]

This article may give some ideas - East Finchley in the early 60s for example 

https://www.lurs.org.uk/02 jan 17 FREIGHT ON THE UNDERGROUND.pdf

[jamespetts]

1 hour ago, Jonathan W said:

This article may give some ideas - East Finchley in the early 60s for example 

https://www.lurs.org.uk/02 jan 17 FREIGHT ON THE UNDERGROUND.pdf

 

A very useful article. The trouble with the Mill Hill/Finchley freight services seems to be that they were mainly handled by ex-LNER N2 locomotives, which are not available in N unless one counts a Langley white metal kit that requires a Poole era Farish chassis to work and is thus not up to modern standards.

 

If J50s were used, then this would have been more interesting given Sonic's recent announcement of this class.

[acourtrail]

On 13/09/2021 at 21:11, stivesnick said:

For people thinking about layout ideas to use this rolling stock, here are a couple of suggestions:

 

1. Central line between Action North and West Ruislip. This line has the former Western Region line from Paddington which joins the Marylebone line at Northolt. Although the main line has little traffic today, in the past there would have been regular passenger trains and a fair amount of freight. This section had until recently freight sidings for cement, stone and the Guinness brewery. 

 

Greenford station itself would be a challenge with the triangular junction on the main line towards West Ealing and the steep climb from the junction up to the platform. Not sure if the Dapol bubble car would cope with that. 

 

2. A more modest idea towards the eastern end of the Central Line. At Leyton, just east of Stratford station where the Central Line emerges from a tunnel, the southern end of Temple Mills yard had some PW sidings on the original Eastern Region line to Leytonstone. My Bakers Rail Atlas from 1984 shows the sidings in use at that time. You could have an Inglenook style BR sidings (or more) next to the underground line as it emerged from the tunnel. 

 

Regards 

 

Nick   

 

Those do sound like good ideas.  Without meaning to nit pick, AFAIK, the 1938 never ran on the "main line" Central Line.  The only times that 1938 stock was seen on the Central, was one 3 car set (and the flat fronted 1935 prototypes) working the Epping - Ongar section.  Later on, one spare 1938 trailer was put into each of the 1960 stock sets to replace the two standard stock trailers in those sets.  The 1960 stock was used on the Fairlop Loop and Epping - Ongar, but I don't think they ever saw use on the "main line" services.

 

As an interesting aside, the Fairlop Loop was used to test and develop the Automatic Train Operation used on the Victoria Line when that was first built, and until 1984, the Victoria Line didn't have all of its allocation of 1967 stock at the same time, because there was always at least one 4 car 1967 set being used on the Fairlop Loop.

[stivesnick]

42 minutes ago, acourtrail said:

Without meaning to nit pick, AFAIK, the 1938 never ran on the "main line" Central Line. 

 

Thanks for the correction - I have re-read the entry in Wikipedia although it says in the introduction that  stock was allocated to the Central Line, later on it says that none actually ran on those lines. My bad for not reading the entire article.

 

Nick 

 

[sem34090]

A proportion of the 1938TS fleet was officially owned by the LNER and was, on paper, divided so as to theoretically supply trains to both the Northern and Central Line extensions over LNER lines to High Barnet, Ongar and the unfinished Alexandra Palace, Finsbury Park and Edgware schemes.

 

In reality the entire LNER-ownes fleet, I believe subject to correction, went to the Northern Line. I only know of one '38TS set to have been used on the Central, this being referred to above. Others may have appeared in departmental use as Ballast Motors and at least one complete set spent some time at White City depot as a training train.

 

Incidentally the Driving Motors from the latter, 10297 and 11297 later went to form 483006 on the Isle of Wight and are today preserved by my beloved London Transport Traction Group at the Llanelli & Mynydd Mawr Railway in Carmarthenshire. I'm hoping we may see our favourite unit appear from RevolutioN, but we shall have to wait and see.

 

Another odd piece of trivia (if I haven't missed something) is that the last 1938TS-derived vehicles still in service into 2020 were all former LNER-owned vehicles delivered in 1940, all of them before the Battle of Britain had started. Over 80 years in service, albeit with a substantial overhaul in the 1970s and a very substantial rebuild in the 1980s before they went to the Island.

[St Enodoc]

On 13/09/2021 at 05:24, Karhedron said:

I have a crazy idea to do an alternative version of East Finchley in the late 70s but imagining the line to Finsbury Park never closed. Instead it remained part of BR and was electrified in 1977 along with the line to Moorgate. Then you could have 313s in BG livery running on the centre lines while the 38 stock runs on the outer lines. I imagine some of the 313s would turn back using the siding just north of the station while others might run on the Edgeware via Mill Hill (which also would not have closed  ). I could even add a bit of frieght in the form of milk traffic. There was a rail-served Unigate dairy with its own siding on the Up line. The real thing closed in the early 60s when the line to Finsbury Park was severed but if the link had remained open it could have still been receiving milk in the late 70s as Unigate did not stop milk trains until 1980.

 

On 14/09/2021 at 06:21, Jonathan W said:

This article may give some ideas - East Finchley in the early 60s for example 

https://www.lurs.org.uk/02 jan 17 FREIGHT ON THE UNDERGROUND.pdf

 

On 14/09/2021 at 07:25, jamespetts said:

 

A very useful article. The trouble with the Mill Hill/Finchley freight services seems to be that they were mainly handled by ex-LNER N2 locomotives, which are not available in N unless one counts a Langley white metal kit that requires a Poole era Farish chassis to work and is thus not up to modern standards.

 

If J50s were used, then this would have been more interesting given Sonic's recent announcement of this class.

I grew up near Mill Hill East. Finchley Central in about 1962 is one of my might-but-probably-never-will projects. Thanks to this development, it's just been promoted to might-and-possibly-will.

[CF MRC]

Any developments?

 

Tim

[andythenorth]

4 hours ago, CF MRC said:

Any developments?

 

I don't want to speak for Revolution, but I think for this very reasonable question, this very reasonable answer applies:

 

[TomE]

Pre-orders now open for the 1938 stock! 
 

https://revolutiontrains.com/product-category/pre-order/ngauge/1938-london-underground-stock-iow-class-483/

 

Tom. 

 

[Brian-1c]

Only the four car set on the web site. Will there be a three car set in the future ?

[TomE]

41 minutes ago, Brian-1c said:

Only the four car set on the web site. Will there be a three car set in the future ?

I'm seeing options for 4, 3 and 2 car sets: 

 

 

Tom.  

 

[Brian-1c]

There certainly are all the options now 😀

 

I must have been a little too quick and found the first link page whilst they were updating the site !

Thank you.

[melmerby]

On 13/09/2021 at 10:34, Revolution Ben said:

 

Hi all,

 

Thanks for posting these images - fascinating.  I’ve seen lots of shots of newer TfL trains being dragged from Derby to London, but there seems to be very little information about earlier LT stock.  The 1938 stock trains were built in Birmingham, so must’ve been ferried to London somehow...presumably by the LMS.  

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

A lot of stock in the 50s & 60s went from MetCam & BRCW via the Western to Ruislip Depot.

Ruislip Depot had connections both to the tube & sub surface lines.

Seems likely the '38 stock went the same way.

 

I saw a few through Tyseley in my trainspotting years, they were usually Hall or Grange powered.

Steam engine - barrier van - LT stock - barrier van - Toad.

 

(Metcam Washwood Heath was only a short distance from the GWR via the Camp Hill line & connecting link. BRCW was on the GWR a few miles north of Snow Hill.

[jjb1970]

Well done Revolution for doing this one! I would love to see a lot more models of metro type trains. In most model regions it's the same, metro operations are very much the poor relation and often ignored despite such trains being much more a part of life for many more people than inter-city and freight trains. 

 

An exception is Japan, subway system and metro trains are very much a part of mainstream modelling there and manufacturers see them as an essential part of their offerings. At the risk of insulting the Revolution guys this one is a release that could be very popular with Japanese modellers. N gauge is the dominant scale in Japan and the size of the market is huge. Many Japanese people like London and many of their rail enthusiasts like trains of other countries as souvenirs or just something different. I believe the Kato class 800 and 009 Prince models sold well in Japan. So this Underground model could find a ready market if made available to Japanese enthusiasts.

[MyRule1]

A number if these sets went for scrap at Parry's scrapyard at Snailwell. I was standing on Harlow Town Station early one morning when a couple of sets went through, hauled I seem to remember by a Cl37. On that day I did not have a camera with me.

 

Over £300 is rather expensive to recreate this movement so my 1970/80's GE line model unfortunatley.

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by MyRule1
typo

[acg5324]

Apologies if the question has ready been asked….when did the LT red livery supersede Maroon?……asking for a friend 🤣

[Steven B]

On 25/11/2022 at 10:29, TomE said:

Pre-orders now open for the 1938 stock! 
 

https://revolutiontrains.com/product-category/pre-order/ngauge/1938-london-underground-stock-iow-class-483/

 

 

No dinosaurs!?!? 🙁   🦖

 

Steven B

[justin1985]

Possibly a silly question, but am I right in understanding the 3-car "add-on" set is also motored, and therefore could be run on its own? The wording on the shop pages is a little ambiguous. 

 

I understand they might be prototypically only run as 4 car, or 4+3 sets, but in the interests of a train that takes up less space, 3 car sets are appealing on their own ...

[Nile]

On 01/12/2022 at 08:19, acg5324 said:

Apologies if the question has ready been asked….when did the LT red livery supersede Maroon?……asking for a friend 🤣

 

I found an answer here, hopefully correct.

 

[Titan]

Just having thoughts - although I model in 4mm scale, I am pretty sure that a 2mm scale tube line running under the baseboard, with a cutaway station towards the front would work well - with a complete scenic break between the two due to "ground" rather than a bridge/tunnel/hedge etc. I think the difference in scales would work, and the smaller size of N would make it a more practical proposition.

[Robert Shrives]

I will have to donate an organ to get a couple of IOW ones and hope that a dino livery can be recreated in time.  but to get 4 sets from the get go will make it possible in a large garage /shed/loft to make a model of the whole network! 

Thanks!

Robert  

[TomE]

On display at the NGS York show were the first engineering samples for the 1938 stock:

 

 

There are more photos of the samples here

 

Tom.