Effect of Kleer on Railmatch enamel

[John Tomlinson]

I have read somewhere, but can't remember where, that Railmatch enamel has some component that causes Johnson's Kleer to react when the latter is sprayed on top.

 

The reaction takes the form of blotches and puddling, with an uneven and unattractive finish.

 

This accords with an experience of mine somewhile ago, despite the underlying paint having had months to cure. At the time a query on here suggested the fault might be due to the airbrush spraying the Kleer still containing some enamel thinners residue, an explanation that was possible but by no means certain.

 

I wonder if anyone else has had a job spoiled by spraying Kleer over Railmatch?

 

Many thanks,

 

John.

[Monkersson]

I've never sprayed Kleer over Railmatch, but had no problems brushing over - I find it settles completely flat even when by brush

[Norton961]

I have never successfully sprayed Klear over any paint, I now brush it on and its fine.

 

David

[Darius43]

I would concur - better brushed on with a flat brush than sprayed.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[John Tomlinson]

Thanks to you all for your answers.

 

Brushing not spraying it is in future!

 

John.

[Chas Levin]

I've also noticed something in Railmatch enamels that causes issues with water-based varnish - I use Ronseal sometimes and it puddles as you say. Some sort of additive, perhaps silicone related, that tries to repel water...? The enamels themselves give a beautiful finish and take transfers well, it's when you want to varnish over them to protect the transfers that the trouble starts...

[John Tomlinson]

14 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

I've also noticed something in Railmatch enamels that causes issues with water-based varnish - I use Ronseal sometimes and it puddles as you say. Some sort of additive, perhaps silicone related, that tries to repel water...? The enamels themselves give a beautiful finish and take transfers well, it's when you want to varnish over them to protect the transfers that the trouble starts...

Many thanks for your comment. It is all something of a mystery.

 

I've never had a problem brushing, so perhaps as long as this isn't done too heavily it is OK. My inclination in future for sprayed varnish is to use the enamel based Humbrol Satincote. It really is quite distressing to get to the end of a project and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with the last stage!

 

John.

[Chas Levin]

8 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

... It really is quite distressing to get to the end of a project and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with the last stage!

Agreed!!

[Halvarras]

There can't be many model finishes which are better brushed than sprayed, but I could use a varnish coat with such properties right now. I'd be overcoating both Railmatch and Precision enamels, with waterslide transfers applied.

 

I never got around to trying out Johnson's Kleer but seem to recall reading that its composition was changed in recent times and now it's not so clever for our non-floor purposes? And so one of the model paint manufacturers came up with a substitute? If so, what is it called and has anyone put it to the Kleer brush test? 

 

And if I'm asking too many stoopid questions will somebody kindly let me know? (D'oh, there's another one........)

Edited September 25, 2021 by Neil Phillips

[John Tomlinson]

1 hour ago, Neil Phillips said:

There can't be many model finishes which are better brushed than sprayed, but I could use a varnish coat with such properties right now. I'd be overcoating both Railmatch and Precision enamels, with waterslide transfers applied.

 

I never got around to trying out Johnson's Kleer but seem to recall reading that its composition was changed in recent times and now it's not so clever for our non-floor purposes? And so one of the model paint manufacturers came up with a substitute? If so, what is it called and has anyone put it to the Kleer brush test? 

 

And if I'm asking too many stoopid questions will somebody kindly let me know? (D'oh, there's another one........)

 

I don't know the answers to your questions Neil, but they certainly aren't stupid.

 

I'd find my modelling a lot less stressful (OK it's not that stressful now), if I didn't fear messing the whole thing up at the final hurdle. So a varnish coat that is reliable, simple to use and does the job without grief would be just the job. Otherwise I try to go without, use HMRS Pressfix (sadly it seems of less reliable quality nowadays and also not necessarily available), and handle with care.

 

John.

Edited September 25, 2021 by John Tomlinson

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

I don't know the answers to your questions Neil, but they certainly aren't stupid.

 

I'd find my modelling a lot less stressful (OK it's not that stressful now), if I didn't fear messing the whole thing up at the final hurdle. So a varnish coat that is reliable, simple to use and does the job without grief would be just the job. Otherwise I try to go without, use HMRS Pressfix (sadly it seems of less reliable quality nowadays and also not necessarily available), and handle with care.

 

John.

 

Thanks John, I've spray-painted many things since the 1970s with a Badger airbrush and thankfully suffered few failures, but it gradually became more difficult as the situation at home conspired to rob me of the necessary space and time. This resulted in me trying to make the most of every opportunity and attempting to do too much in one go, which led to problems. I also believe the quality of enamel paint, which I prefer, is inferior to what we were used to, possibly due to environmental regulations imposing changes to formulations.  A few years ago I hand-painted some older diesel models which required in my view too many coats to achieve adequate coverage and left brush marks, however I persevered in the hope that a rattle can of Railmatch satin varnish would smooth this out, which it did, although the surface finish wasn't as good as the airbrush would have achieved. 

I now have many models which have been brought to the painting stage but I almost dread doing it, as the results in recent years have tended to be variable and some of these models have involved a great deal of work, but I'm going to have to bite that bullet at some point soon! In the meantime I have some more older models, four small 0-4-0 types, requiring painting, some with Kemco waterslide lining which a test application has shown doesn't stick particularly well (possibly because I bought it in the 1970s!) and I would really like to brush varnish these sitting at my modelling table instead of the hassle of getting the airbrush out, hence my questions. Many of the other items awaiting painting definitely deserve the airbrush treatment in due course, but I'm not so bothered about these 0-4-0s - I just desire a decent finish with protected transfers.

Over the past year or so I have been working my way through some green diesel models, mostly Bachmann and Heljan, which were simply renumbered, so just these small areas required varnishing.  I don't remember getting the varnish to match the surrounding finish being so difficult, perhaps I was just luckier in the past. I can't bring myself to spray varnish an entire model just to seal four sets of running numbers! There is something to be said for your approach - if the transfers get damaged, reapply.

 

Neil

 

[John Tomlinson]

12 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

 

Thanks John, I've spray-painted many things since the 1970s with a Badger airbrush and thankfully suffered few failures, but it gradually became more difficult as the situation at home conspired to rob me of the necessary space and time. This resulted in me trying to make the most of every opportunity and attempting to do too much in one go, which led to problems. I also believe the quality of enamel paint, which I prefer, is inferior to what we were used to, possibly due to environmental regulations imposing changes to formulations.  A few years ago I hand-painted some older diesel models which required in my view too many coats to achieve adequate coverage and left brush marks, however I persevered in the hope that a rattle can of Railmatch satin varnish would smooth this out, which it did, although the surface finish wasn't as good as the airbrush would have achieved. 

I now have many models which have been brought to the painting stage but I almost dread doing it, as the results in recent years have tended to be variable and some of these models have involved a great deal of work, but I'm going to have to bite that bullet at some point soon! In the meantime I have some more older models, four small 0-4-0 types, requiring painting, some with Kemco waterslide lining which a test application has shown doesn't stick particularly well (possibly because I bought it in the 1970s!) and I would really like to brush varnish these sitting at my modelling table instead of the hassle of getting the airbrush out, hence my questions. Many of the other items awaiting painting definitely deserve the airbrush treatment in due course, but I'm not so bothered about these 0-4-0s - I just desire a decent finish with protected transfers.

Over the past year or so I have been working my way through some green diesel models, mostly Bachmann and Heljan, which were simply renumbered, so just these small areas required varnishing.  I don't remember getting the varnish to match the surrounding finish being so difficult, perhaps I was just luckier in the past. I can't bring myself to spray varnish an entire model just to seal four sets of running numbers! There is something to be said for your approach - if the transfers get damaged, reapply.

 

Neil

 

 

This is the problem of spraying, unless you have a permanent area set up it is a real faff to get the equipment out.

 

For many years I sprayed outdoors, but grew tired of the weather problems and particularly the wind blowing models all over the garden the moment my back was turned! I've now rigged up some LED's around my spray booth so I can spray properly, and have the exhaust pipe out of the window. I spent yesterday afternoon cleaning the related areas of my modelling room, moving stuff about and then washing a batch of various models for spraying later today - if they have dried! Definitely my least enjoyed part of the hobby.

 

John.

Edited September 26, 2021 by John Tomlinson

[Barclay]

The whole thing about varnishes causes me some anxiety - enamel/lacquer/acrylic? - will it react with the paint? Will it react with the transfers? 

 

I can however recommend the Humbrol 'Clear' which has the consistency of water and brushes on very well. I think it was intended as a modelmakers' version of Johnson's Kleer. I have recently used it on a loco with Model Master enamel paint and Microscale decals and it was fine. I did brush it lightly on though and was glad I had because where I put it on a little thick it did start to do something to the decals, although they settled down when it dried ! I think in these situations it helps to allow the paint to really dry over a week or more as well.

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, Barclay said:

The whole thing about varnishes causes me some anxiety - enamel/lacquer/acrylic? - will it react with the paint? Will it react with the transfers? 

 

I can however recommend the Humbrol 'Clear' which has the consistency of water and brushes on very well. I think it was intended as a modelmakers' version of Johnson's Kleer. I have recently used it on a loco with Model Master enamel paint and Microscale decals and it was fine. I did brush it lightly on though and was glad I had because where I put it on a little thick it did start to do something to the decals, although they settled down when it dried ! I think in these situations it helps to allow the paint to really dry over a week or more as well.

 

Ah, thank you, that Humbrol product sounds like the one I thought I had heard about! I'll have to get hold of some and try it out. Good advice about drying times too, it's tempting to press ahead but if the first coat is not completely dry the second coat will soften it and start lifting it off. Again this seems to be a bigger problem now than it has been in the past. There's always something else I can be getting on with while I'm waiting - this may slow down progress on individual projects but if everything is heading in the right direction no time is lost overall - one is simply running tasks in parallel instead of in series!

When things go wrong in the manner you describe it's tempting to panic and intervene, but it's usually best left alone to see what happens as it dries. I often get a bit of fluff or dust settle on models I've just painted but trying to get them off a wet surface with tweezers is fraught with danger! Waiting a while for the paint to dry, to limit any damage caused by the tweezers, is preferable. Bits of fluff are usually in minimal contact with the surface. Any marks remaining after removal can be touched in with a spot of paint on the end of a wooden cocktail stick (sharpened if necessary).

The one occasion I can think of when panicking did actually work out was when I sprayed a pair of Airfix oil tank wagon barrels in a darkish silver colour using a tin of Revell 91 (I think) - it was very old and I should have known better, and when it came out all blotchy I grabbed some kitchen roll and tried to wipe it off.........and it smoothed it out instead! Definitely a one-off, it really shouldn't have worked!!