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39 minutes ago, Regularity said:

That’s for pork (dead pigs), not live pigs.

 

True enough, if Hornby is truth.

 

4 minutes ago, wagonman said:

I recently did an analysis of the traffic arising from the 1925 Wilts Agricultural Show at Warminster and there were a few instances of pigs being transported. In all cases the animals were in crates loaded onto cattle wagons, in many cases in the company of cattle – as the prize animals were usually carried in 'Beetles', these presumably were the runners up.

 

Ah, that perhaps gives one a picture of the "part load" category in the instructions @Mikkel posted.

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2 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Herewith a general arrangement / livery diagram for The Empress of Blandings, should anyone want to depict here being goaded aboard a Beetle on their layout.

 

Who are you calling a Berkshire swine?!

 

Besides, that's not a GA. It's more like one of those illustrations in Engineering or The Locomotive Magazine

 

This is a GA:

 

image.png.6ff9cfb4c9b8e890fb832e439dcfbb30.png

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All this mention of pigs in crates does puzzle me...  if pigs in blankets are in vogue at the end of each year then when are pigs in crates to be considered as "delicacy of the day"?

 

On the other hand, and being serious for once, there were regulations relating to the comfort / well-being / call of nature of animals in transit.  In the case of cows the animals had to be inspected and watered after a prescribed period of travel.  I suspect that the same regulations applied to live pigs... can such regulations be applied "inspected" or "watered" in the same manner as cows?

 

Looking at the train service times offered earlier one may put one and one together and come to the conclusion that Kemble was an authorised place for carrying out the regulations - there are several loads which arrive at Kemble on one day and leave on the next.  Easy to carry out the regulations with cows, just unload into a convenient cattle dock.....  but a pig in a crate?

 

Is this the point when we ask The Stationmaster for his view?

 

regards, Graham

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1 minute ago, Western Star said:

Is this the point when we ask The Stationmaster for his view?

 

Mike @The Stationmaster (there, I've cast the accio spell) no doubt has a copy of the relevant regulations and instructions. 

 

But, if you will forgive me for saying so, we've been tending in a Swindocentric direction (nominative determinism perhaps) which isn't really addressing my Midland pigs in opens difficulty. I suppose that's both inevitable and forgivable, given the extent to which the Great Western has been the subject of enthusiasts' scrutiny. 

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The GWR General Appendix, which cites a lot of Min of Ag regulations, makes clear that all livestock was to be treated approriately as regards feeding and watering. Not all the regs are dates in the Appendix, though, and I know that animal welfare legislation improved over the years, so pre-grouping porkers may have been trated more harshly than post-grouping ones.

 

What happened to pigs at Cirencester, dare I ask? It had (still has I think) a big livestock market, but was it a centre of "processing" too, or was the district one where pigs were fattened-up before the inevitable happened at Calne?

 

PS: Swindon is named from "Swine-down", because the area was pig-central from AnglSaxon times, apparently.

Edited by Nearholmer
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I believe the unfortunate porkers that made the final journey to Calne did so in cattle trucks. That they might catch a chill was probably of little concern given they were soon to catch something far worse..

 

Apropos the rather more cherished beasts that got to travel in crates, I have been unable to discover if there was such a thing as a Standard GWR Pig Crate, though I suspect there was

 

 

Edited by wagonman
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LNER

General Directions

to

Agents and members of their staffs 

with regard to the

Management of Stations

and conveyance of 

Merchandise Traffic 

1st January 1931.

 

Below is the section on livestock, there are mentions of pigs. 

 

20210914_192833_copy_1541x1200.jpg.141521280606648e1c9458bfe933b3bf.jpg

 

20210914_194429_copy_1200x1600.jpg.2a3c3eb67e9be316c9cef6970bb03096.jpg

 

20210914_192841_copy_1200x1600.jpg.2072db71242e5b23e360998edb625879.jpg

 

20210914_192849_copy_1200x1600.jpg.44fc6ed6c2fd38de92a2bf75fee443c0.jpg

 

20210914_192901_copy_1200x1600.jpg.fdd2c084c16f1ef1cc6ca42ce309e66a.jpg

 

20210914_192911_copy_1200x1600.jpg.5753193fe27b8eca5d39300fc681cfbd.jpg

 

20210914_192920_copy_1200x1600.jpg.784685ef3f6f2e300efd9c68af9a8a70.jpg

 

20210914_192936_copy_1600x1036.jpg.94e4269c8c4402c681b4c6c531f89248.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, wagonman said:

if there was such a thing as a Standard GWR Pig Crate

 

There are GWR animal crates on display at 'Steam' in Swindon, so worth checking if you go there whether any are pig specific.

 

BTW, I rate 'Steam' highly as a museum. just enough to be interesting without causing mental overload, and neatly pitched to cover th einterests of enthusiasts as well as act as an introduction for those who are less obsessed by railways. I'll forgive the fact that it bangs on a lot about one railway in particular, given where it is.

 

PS: Mind you, this either portrays the transport of taxidermy samples, or escaped ovines in a goods shed. Or, maybe its a detachment of the GWR's famous in-house ovine voice choir, giving their well known rendition of "Myfanwy", to raise the morale of staff in difficult times.

 

GWR "goods"

n

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2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

But, if you will forgive me for saying so, we've been tending in a Swindocentric direction (nominative determinism perhaps) which isn't really addressing my Midland pigs in opens difficulty. 

Midland pigs were smaller ands less powerful than Churchward-designed ones, and were often double-headed.

But as has already been explained above, a pig in an open was as happy is a pig in sheet.   

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44 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

BTW, I rate 'Steam' highly as a museum. just enough to be interesting without causing mental overload, and neatly pitched to cover th einterests of enthusiasts as well as act as an introduction for those who are less obsessed by railways. I'll forgive the fact that it bangs on a lot about one railway in particular, given where it is.

 

It's a while since I've been; most recently about four or five years ago when the boys went to a Lego exhibition, which they attended several years running. But I remember going when they were quite small - there was a soft-play shunting puzzle.

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It does call itself "Steam - Museum of the Great Western Railway" so an emphasis on that company is unsurprising. But there is no steam. I note that Didcot Railway Centre brands itself "Living Museum of the Great Western Railway".

 

It's hardly surprising that the Great British Public should have conceived an affection for this company above all others, given what we've been learning about its superior treatment of pigs.

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3 hours ago, Worsdell forever said:

LNER

General Directions

 

Excellent, thanks. A non-Great Western perspective. I note in particular paragraph 235, referring to the use of vans or sheeted opens for "sheep, &c." - where &c. I think can fairly be interpreted as encompassing pigs - it is clear that the animals are not loose but in "crates, sacks, or other packages".

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6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Herewith a general arrangement / livery diagram for The Empress of Blandings, should anyone want to depict here being goaded aboard a Beetle on their layout.

 

 

2794C51D-D65B-4400-A6D1-E1EEC985DB89.jpeg

 

More Berkshire schweine

 

535085927_importedImage52428_7(1).jpg.8cb95f689baebf1acfb08b2c4307ee94.jpg

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

It does call itself "Steam - Museum of the Great Western Railway" so an emphasis on that company is unsurprising.

 

Yes, I do get that, and I probably shouldn't give-in to the temptation to make cheap jokes about a company that so many people hold in such esteem.

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

See Trooper Potts. I have heard it said that he was made lance-corporal more times than any other private in the British Army.

I have some detailed photos of the life-sized sculpture of Trooper Potts VC dragging his injured comrade back to the British lines at Gallipoli, which is in Reading - (the statue not Gallipoli). That would be a diversion from this thread. I do however have this photo of a calf float used to convey said beasts on the ferry across the Solent. Would that have gone on to travel on the railway, I wonder. Edit Perhaps not, as I have just noticed the notice on the float's side includes the word 'only'.

Highbridge Wharf had a fairly large cattle dock within a short distance from the cattle market and a slightly further distance from the Highbridge Bacon Company factory. I cannot see any direct pathway between the cattle dock and market although they must have been in sight of each other. Were the cattle, sheep and pigs driven along what is now the A38?

The Isle of Wight Steam Railway Calf float19 7 2018.jpg

Edited by phil_sutters
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19 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

There are a couple of anomalies:

 

18733, a 1-plank open of old series Lot 1

23403, which I think may be a 3-plank open.

 

I can't quite place 13593 either.

 

Saving your reverence, might these be transcription errors?

At risk of going off question although in pursuit of historical accuracy, I put your comments to John Lewis (HMRS Steward for GWR wagonary)...  herewith his reply.

 

<<quote>>

Of the wagons you asked about:

18733 was a 1-plank open built on Lot 1. However, I wonder if 18733 was a mistake for 13733, which was a cattle wagon built on Lot 64.

23403 would probably have been a loco coal wagon as the 23xxx series seems to have been reserved for them.

13593 was probably an 'old' wagon pre-dating the Lot list i.e. pre-1867, or a wagon built on a renewals lot where we do not have all the numbers, or else a wagon acquired from an absorbed railway.

The only way to check on these wagons is to mount an expedition to the NRM Library and look at the Registers.

<<end quote>>

 

regards, Graham

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12 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

Yes, I do get that, and I probably shouldn't give-in to the temptation to make cheap jokes about a company that so many people hold in such esteem.

Any railway which has to tell people it is great, obviously isn’t… ;)

 

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