Hilbre Deeside

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi folks,

 

Hilbre Deeside is my first (and last?) serious attempt at building a layout to a standard that I would let other folk see.

 

Background:

 

Over the last decade I have tried a range of scales and gauges from 'Z' to '0-16.5' with varying degrees of success (and a fair bit of failure). Over the last two years, due to pressure of work I have been only able to dabble in odd, small, projects. Nothing has reasonably come close to being a functioning, enjoyable, layout. So this is my attempt to deal with the frustration these efforts have brought. It is also an attempt to get away from the 'train-set' mentality of needing a continuous run.

 

The Plan:

In previous incarnations of this forum I have posted questions, and sometimes posted information, regarding the station of West Kirby. This is the Merseyrail terminus on the seaside (okay, not the seaside as such but close enough to it on the Dee Estuary). The idea I have is to assume that another line ran further down the river in the direction of New Brighton to transport holiday makers to some resort opposite the island of Hilbre. This fictional line was not a part of the LMS Wirral electrification of the 1920s but was steam and then diesel operated throughout its life. It is assumed that Liverpool traffic would come near via the lines to the real stations on the Wirral; traffic for Hilbre Deeside is imagined to have originated from Chester and further afield.

 

The Model:

The plan is still at the development stage but is to be based in the late 60s. The basic track-plan exists but needs one or two small detail decisions to be made. Overall size is approximately 8'x10" (the length and width of the two shelf kits that will form a part of the baseboard. Operation is to be mostly DMU, with some parcel, perishable, and excursion services to be loco-hauled. The big (and expensive) decision is not only to use DCC but also to use sound.

 

Next:

That's the story so far. I hope to have two track-plan options posted within the week (once I commit them to something clearer than my sketchbook doodles). Any comments about the basic idea, questions, or suggestions will be appreciated. Assuming there is progress beyond pen, paper, and this site then there will be photos posted as things go on.

 

Question for the moment:

Can anyone tell me what diesel classes were operating around Chester, North Wales, and the Wirral during the period from the end of steam until the advent of TOPS?

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[edcayton]

If I were starting all over again, and if I was more into diesels, I would go for DCC and sound. It seems to me that you can buy roughly half the numbers of loco's, but I reckon you get more than twice the value. I am yet to be convinced of the case for steam sound though.

How many other people spend time wondering what they would go for if everything disappeared overnight?

 

Ed

[mr b]

Agree about DCC mate, looking towards the future in a couple of years it will take over DC and more locos will come ready chipped, read some were by 20012 ? not sure about sound - class 20 at Shildon 5/6 weekend horrible loud screeching thing, proto type you only heard it when it went past ! Myself I moddel in N and some locos I've chipped where a pain, the new ones are a doddle.

 

mr B ... moddeling nethertown

[flyingsignalman]

Classes, 24,25,40 and 47 were used on the Wirral most regularly. Until 1971ish when freight workings were reorganised around Ellesmere Port rather than Birkenhead on the Joint line class 37 or 45 could be seen on the Mottram Yard to Birkenhead (and return) freight.

Classes 03, 04 and 08 were used for shunting (08s only after about 1971) being based at Mollington Street depot.

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi again,

 

I think I am beginning to hate modern technology (not a good place to be when using and online forum and wanting to work in DCC sound)! The reason is that my scanner refuses to work properly - a mixture of software issues, etc. Anyway, had to draw two potential trackplans by hand and then photograph them. Sorry for the poor quality but I felt I needed to keep this moving. As written in the opening post there are two potential plans; the first is pre-modernisation and the second after things were simplified at the prototype. I have signalling diagrams somewhere too, so I'll to adding them later. I think the first plan is probably more 'right' for the era in question but I am ope to suggestions and comment.

 

Thanks again for looking.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Guest Austerity94]

Back again,

 

Having lost a lot of railway research due to the damage of backup disks during recent work to the house, I was relieved to find that pictures of West Kirby taken on 1st january 2008 had survived. Anyway, to give an idea of scale or perspective here are two showing the pointwork around the station throat and approach; both were taken form the overbridge.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[beast66606]

an acknowledgement even a "Thanks" might encourage further help - you appear to have totally ignored Keith's posting

[Guest Austerity94]

Good morning folks,

 

Sorry if I caused offence for seeming to ignore earlier responses; this was not intentional.

 

Interested to read about the 40s and 47s; most of the information I find either shows steam or is TOPS era and the latter seems to show lots of 47s and a few 40s. I seem to remember seeing comments about 33s making some appearances (on Holyhead to Cardiff service?). My own visits to the area have been only in the last nine years and I've seen nothing other than 66s and units in that time (this doesn't count the purple Deltic that was around one weekend).

 

In terms of help and information, I am slowly putting together a short bibliography/acknowledgements list as few useful books have been found and comments form a previous version of the forum have also been helpful. Very helpful were previous pics taken by Beast 66606 showing WK prior to the introduction of the 507s, especially since these showed the signals clearly (I have a signalling diagram but that doesn't really tell me what they actually look like).

 

Looking at having a go at modelling the building from WK, rather than something from elsewhere in the north-west such as one of those on the Liverpool-Manchester line, although I'll need to use the 'satellite' image from GoogleMaps to get a better idea os the shape. I think I have pics of most of the elevations.

 

Thanks again for the help.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

 

PS. Keith, why does your avatar look familiar?

 

PPS. Scanner problem identified - it doesn't like my updated OS, although the printer element of it now works better!

[beast66606]

Hi Alex,

 

prompter over

 

IMHO the post power box layout is a no no - because it is post power box so too late for your needs (I think you have missed out some traps from the pre PSB layout though)

 

Not sure on your space but you need a run round of some form, at the moment you can't use loco hauled stock of any form.

 

A traffic you might like to use was the Cadbury shunt which, because the connection trailed into the Bidston bound line, had to run round so it could then propel back into the sidings at Moreton - a set of vans with a 24 perhaps ?

 

I was only musing this weekend that I need to go and get some updated shots from those bridges so I might take a trip to do just that over the next few weeks.

[Sir Madog]

Thanks for sharing the pictures with us. I am currently pondering to "move" my layout setting to the south and install a 3rd rail, so the pics are quite handy for me!

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi again folks,

 

Thanks for the very helpful comments about the latter track arrangement, run-rounds etc. I especially like the idea of CHOCOLATE (although I wonder if it was only of the biscuit variety?) as it would give me an excuse to run a variety of vans, as well as providing additional traffic. The last time I looked there seemed to be an industrial diesel on a plinth by the main gate at the Moreton factory. Strange, that in nearly nine years I have never got round to taking a picture of it!

 

Sir Madog, if you're thinking of third rail I'll see if I have any better pics showing detail on that, although there are some folk on this forum who will be much better informed on the matter. If I remember correctly, one of the magazines recently did a series on 3rd rail (Modeller?).

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Alex.

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi folks,

 

I have been doing a lot of head-scratching over this one and still cannot make up my mind whether or not to take the layout back to it's more recent rationalisation. However, the biggest problem is that a combination of work going on in the house and a change of use of some of the rooms means that my space has been drastically reduced. It looks as if, for the moment, some form of 'micro' layout will be called for.

 

The original idea would have been to view the station from the current carpark/fire station side as that would have allowed me to have a backscene of buildings and to also try to use the minimum of compression; the change of name was really to allow me to depart from a deadly accurate model of the real thing. The new arrangements with the house mean that the layout area would be too narrow to allow this! It would be too short too meaning quite a degree of compression.

 

Any creative solutions would be appreciated. (If it doesn't get built this time, there will be a chance, I hope, in the not to distant future as I am likely to move post and house in a couple of years.)

 

Again, thanks for help and advice offered.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

 

PS. For those who may be interested, the new space will be 2.1 x 0.2 m!

[spionkop]

Hi folks,

 

I have been doing a lot of head-scratching over this one and still cannot make up my mind whether or not to take the layout back to it's more recent rationalisation. However, the biggest problem is that a combination of work going on in the house and a change of use of some of the rooms means that my space has been drastically reduced. It looks as if, for the moment, some form of 'micro' layout will be called for.

 

The original idea would have been to view the station from the current carpark/fire station side as that would have allowed me to have a backscene of buildings and to also try to use the minimum of compression; the change of name was really to allow me to depart from a deadly accurate model of the real thing. The new arrangements with the house mean that the layout area would be too narrow to allow this! It would be too short too meaning quite a degree of compression.

 

Any creative solutions would be appreciated. (If it doesn't get built this time, there will be a chance, I hope, in the not to distant future as I am likely to move post and house in a couple of years.)

 

Again, thanks for help and advice offered.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

 

PS. For those who may be interested, the new space will be 2.1 x 0.2 m!

[spionkop]

Hi Austerity 94

 

Great idea for modelling WK, my old home town.

 

For preference, I would rewrite history and link the Wirral electric line with the Hooton branch( now the Wirral Way)

You could still use some mix of freight en route for Cadbury's as has already been suggested. Alternatively, you might like to think of the Hooton line as a preserved steam line such as The West Wirral Railway!

the backscene for your layout will be rather ugly . The other station had an almost rural feel with a large area of trees around a large scout hut.

Good luck

 

Martin

[Calimero]

Austerity 94

 

Check this link, I was planning something like this but have had to put it on the back burner at the moment. Plenty of info/photos from the guys on RM Web.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/8706-3rd-rail-liverpool-area-new-layout/page__p__75674__fromsearch__1?do=findComment&comment=75674