cypherman Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 Hi all, I was wondering if it would be possible or if any one had already designed and built a motor bracket that would allow you to fit newer motors into existing X03 motored chassis's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) Do you mean X.03 or X.04? There's no reason why they couldn't be 3D printed, after all Rovex did use cradles for the can motors that replaced the X.04 motors in the R.355 0-4-0s when the 0-4-0s still used the 1959 chassis design. The only issue might be that the cradle would need to be designed to match the dimensions of whichever motor was to replace the X.04. So a generic cradle to suit all possible alternative motors would not be possible. Have a look at Hornby Service sheets 82 and 82A to see examples of such cradles or brackets on the Hornby Collectors website https://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_menu.asp. Edited September 16, 2021 by GoingUnderground 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted September 17, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 17, 2021 The issue is not really the cradle, a simple fold up etch is pretty easy. Sleeving the modern motor spindles to suit the worm gear, or getting new worms made to suit is the obstacle. In the meantime I will continue to refurb the good old X03/4 to keep folk's locos running 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryD1471 Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Peripherally relevant to this topic: I acquired a Buhler can motor a long time ago which had a plastic cradle to allow it to fit directly in place of an XO4 motor. The motor itself is fantastic, but I have no recollection of whom I bought it from. Anyone have an idea? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR Chuffer Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, TerryD1471 said: Peripherally relevant Even more periperally, what is the current thinking on X03 motors (nylon gears?) - enhance, replace (with what), etc. Bought a Hornby RO52 Fowler 0-6-0T Jinty for peanuts the other day, thought at least I could use the 8'+8'6" chassis for MR tender locos but, as has been stated elsewhere, it runs for about 10-20 seconds off a Gaugemaster Combi controller (1 amp output) and then slowly dies. Turn power off and on, and it runs again for for 10-20 seconds. People say that it is the motor drawing too much power and the Combi cuts out to protect itself. These old threads suggest replacement motors that are no longer available, so interested to see what practical motor replacement options this thread comes with. Edited September 17, 2021 by MR Chuffer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 The first X.03 was produced up to 1954 and had an Alnico magnet. It was replaced by the X.04 in 1954 which was essentially the same motor but an Alcomax magnet The X.04 was the standard Triang stand alone motor used in OO/H0 steam outline locos including all models using the 0-4-0 chassis for over 20 years until around 1976. Apart from some produced in first half of the 1950s, and the Steeple Cab loco R.252/254, all Triang diesel and electric outline locos used motor bogies. In 1976, Rovex tried to reduce the cost of the motor and redesigned the motor to use parts from the motor used in Scalextric cars, (larger volumes = lower unit cost). This redesigned motor was called the X.03 But they will not have been produced in anything like the same numbers as the X.04 as they were used for a much shorter period at a time when sales of model railways were much lower than the late 1950s and early 1960s. Also, looking at the relevant service sheets the new 03 seems to have been used almost interchangeably with can motors except that there were differences in the worm and worm gear depending on which motor was used, see the relevant service sheets for more details. So swapping motors may not be quite as straightforward as it might seem. So if you have a Triang stand alone motor it could be a 1950s X.03 or a 1970s X.03 but is much more likely to be an X.04 as there will be far more of them around. Some steam locos used the XT.60 motor, which was also used in the TT range (the "T" in XT is the giveaway), where space didn't permit the fitting of an X.04, whilst the original Triang "Rocket" used the X.500. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D51 Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 The Buhler motor was marketed as a kit, including a plastic cradle and a worm sleeve, to replace the X04 motor by a firm called ECM Control Systems of Horsham, who produced model railway controllers including the "Compspeed", an excellent controller at the time. The Buhler was smaller than the X04 but was a very powerful little motor. Frank 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted September 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2021 3 hours ago, D51 said: The Buhler motor was marketed as a kit, including a plastic cradle and a worm sleeve, to replace the X04 motor by a firm called ECM Control Systems of Horsham, who produced model railway controllers including the "Compspeed", an excellent controller at the time. The Buhler was smaller than the X04 but was a very powerful little motor. Frank ECM sold 3 motors. Type 1 was a smaller motor. Never seen one, so I know nothing about it. Type 2 was a bigger motor. Type 3 was the Type 2 with a plastic cradle and front plate and a sleeve, which was intended as a direct replacement. I had a Type 3, which I fitted to a Tri-ang Polly, along with Romford wheels and gears, for testing purposes. Sadly, someone stole it from the clubs' Thomas layout - perhaps they realised it worked better than standard? I certainly considered it to be an excellent product, but by this time ECM had stopped selling them. :-( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Buhler motors are still available - a lot of different type on ebay, various voltages. They don't look like X04 replacements unless you can also get some sort of mounting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Hornby (or whatever the company was called at the time) did produce a cradle to fit a chassis built for the X04/X03 motor. This cradle supported the then current 'can' type motor. I remember them from the days I was servicing locos for the local model chops. In fact I have one, mounted in an old 35mm film canister, diving a bent piece of thick brass wire, which I use as a paint stirrer.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) There are at least two Hornby Railways cradles to take a can motor for use in X.04 type chassis. There are two plastic versions. I also seem to remember a folded sheet steel version… There is also a cast metal bracket, but that is for the newer “Smokey Joe” type chassis. There are some in our spares collection… Plastic mounting brackets. There was also a version of the 57XX 8750 type GWR Pannier Tank loco made with a can motor in a mounting bracket, but that seems to have escaped a dedicated Service Sheet. The loco body had to be retooled inside to make room for the can motor… One less well know newer type motor to X.04 type chassis mounting is that used in the original China made versions of the LNER B12 4-6-0. The worm and gear are plastic, I think a different ratio of teeth to worm from the X.04, or the New Type X.03, motor/ gear set up. This uses a small open motor, of the type used in the 0-6-0 “Jinty” type chassis. The B12 chassis block retains the mounting slots for the X.04 type motor…but the cradle retaining screw is a smaller diameter and possibly thread to the old original 8BA screw Not to be confused with the more recent Super Detail B12! Edited September 17, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston Service Sheets added 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, stewartingram said: Hornby (or whatever the company was called at the time) did produce a cradle to fit a chassis built for the X04/X03 motor. This cradle supported the then current 'can' type motor. I remember them from the days I was servicing locos for the local model chops. In fact I have one, mounted in an old 35mm film canister, diving a bent piece of thick brass wire, which I use as a paint stirrer.... The company was Rovex Limited, trading as Rovex Models & Hobbies up to 1976 when there was a reorganisation with the DCM group which split the activities of Rovex Ltd into different divisions, but still under the umbrella of the Rovex Limited company, when the model railways "Hornby Railways" came under the Hornby Hobbies division. This was the position until Dunbee-Combex-Marx failed in 1980. The various cradles for the different can type motors are all shown in the relevant service sheets.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 (edited) Presumably the China made models use metric thread screws* rather than BA. * I know BA are actually metric threads. I trust the ridiculous idea of returning to imperial units (in as far as they ever went away) is just so much government hogwash to deflect from their Brexit and other disasters.... Edited September 20, 2021 by Il Grifone 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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