DCC Sound chip power transistor repair

[letterspider]

I have an ESU DCC Sound chip failed in normal use

All functions are fine but the power transistor has failed.

No warranty

Can anyone direct me to someone who can do repairs?

Thanks

[WIMorrison]

Wouldn’t a repair likely cost more than a new decoder?

[Phil Bullock]

When you say No warranty….. I have returned failed chips for which I have no provenance to ESU and they have been replaced at a very reasonable cost. Might be worth exploring….

[letterspider]

Not since they have moved on to the newer versions

also you have to send them to Austria

I have once seen advertised someone in the UK who does these repairs but can't now track them down

[GoingUnderground]

11 minutes ago, letterspider said:

Not since they have moved on to the newer versions

also you have to send them to Austria

I have once seen advertised someone in the UK who does these repairs but can't now track them down

You might have more success if you returned ESU decoders to ESU in Germany, and Zimo decoders to Zimo in Austria.

[Nigelcliffe]

5 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

You might have more success if you returned ESU decoders to ESU in Germany, and Zimo decoders to Zimo in Austria.

 

And in both cases, the companies have UK importers who will often deal with such returns for you.  

 

[GoingUnderground]

5 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

And in both cases, the companies have UK importers who will often deal with such returns for you.  

 

Except that SW Digital, the official UK distributor for ESU have the following notices on their website:

 

"Please note:  No ESU Repairs carried out in the UK

 

ALL out of warranty items to be replaced or repaired will have to be returned directly to ESU Germany by yourselves."

 

And ESU say on their website:

 

"Important note for END CUSTOMERS from all countries outside the EU who return faulty items back to ESU GERMANY:

 

Please return faulty items directly to your model railway retailer who is responsible for the claims management and transaction to GERMANY.

 

If you don´t have a retailer, please note that we reserve the right to charge you with additional costs for shipping and handling. We ask for your kind understanding."

 

and

 

"If you would like us to repair an item for you against charge, please check our different rates of service charges before you send it in. Don´t forget to explicitly state on the covering letter that you will accept any arising service charges."

[Nigelcliffe]

7 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

Except that SW Digital, the official UK distributor for ESU have the following notices on their website:

 

"Please note:  ......

 

ALL out of warranty items to be replaced or repaired will have to be returned directly to ESU Germany by yourselves."

.............

 

Which is a bit crap isn't it ?    Working out returns post-Brexit requires looking up the correct paperwork.  A pro-active UK agent would work this out for you, and offer a service.

 

Try the retailer who supplied the device (or if a regular customer of a retailer, try them). If they can't help, put it down as a black-mark against ESU in the UK...

 

 

- Nigel

 

[GoingUnderground]

16 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

Which is a bit crap isn't it ?    Working out returns post-Brexit requires looking up the correct paperwork.  A pro-active UK agent would work this out for you, and offer a service.

 

Try the retailer who supplied the device (or if a regular customer of a retailer, try them). If they can't help, put it down as a black-mark against ESU in the UK...

 

 

- Nigel

 

I don't see how you can regard it as a black mark against ESU, especially as Zimo have a very similar notice on their website about items sent for repair from outside the EU.

 

A black mark against SWD possibly, but the cost of running a repair collation service for items out of warranty could be disproportionately high and SWD are not a large company making huge profits. But they will still accept items within the 24 month warranty period.

 

It could also introduce a delay if service agents waited until there were several items to return before sending them off to Germany or Austria or wherever for repair.

 

It is just one of the realities of leaving the EU that we can't close our eyes to any longer. We're now a 3rd party country and must expect to be treated as such.

 

So back to the OP, how old is the decoder? If it was bought from new less than 24 months ago then send it to SouthWest Digital as a warrant claim, they are very likely to ask to see the original sales invoice to confirm that it is within the warranty period.

Edited September 18, 2021 by GoingUnderground
Add warranty claim info

[pauliebanger]

Keith,

 

There was no need to bring ZIMO into this discussion about how ESU's UK distributor has washed it's hands of providing support for ESU decoders out of warranty.

 

But since you have, lets get the facts straight for a change.

 

There's no such 'exclusion' from supplier support for ZIMO UK customers.

 

All accredited UK ZIMO retailers will accept decoders out of warranty for repair. ZIMO's UK distributor, RAIL EXCLUSIVE, have negotiated a modest fixed fee for repair of such decoders, so there's no need to kowtow to 'blank cheque' demands such as exists for ESU which amounts to 'send it in and agree to pay whatever we ask'.

 

Nigel is correct in rewarding such diffidence with a black mark. (not that he did, it was a conditional suggestion on his part).

 

It's disappointing when you need an umbrella and you find it has a hole in it. Most buyers don't consider the quality or ease of long term support at the time of purchase - so it's good when the supplier has done so on their behalf.

 

SWD's position is indeed 'a bit crap'. It might even be illegal under UK consumer law.

 

To the OP. Try Charlie at DC Kits, his ESU replace/repair policy is second to none.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[charliepetty]

On 17/09/2021 at 08:42, letterspider said:

I have an ESU DCC Sound chip failed in normal use

All functions are fine but the power transistor has failed.

No warranty

Can anyone direct me to someone who can do repairs?

Thanks

Hi Paul.

 

Re the ESU Decoder, When & where did you purchase the ESU decoder.  As these have a 2 Year warranty !!!!   Please let me know.   DCKits-Legomanbiffo   (01132 563415) or charlie@dckits.co.uk.

[GoingUnderground]

3 hours ago, pauliebanger said:

Keith,

 

There was no need to bring ZIMO into this discussion about how ESU's UK distributor has washed it's hands of providing support for ESU decoders out of warranty.

 

But since you have, lets get the facts straight for a change.

 

There's no such 'exclusion' from supplier support for ZIMO UK customers.

 

All accredited UK ZIMO retailers will accept decoders out of warranty for repair. ZIMO's UK distributor, RAIL EXCLUSIVE, have negotiated a modest fixed fee for repair of such decoders, so there's no need to kowtow to 'blank cheque' demands such as exists for ESU which amounts to 'send it in and agree to pay whatever we ask'.

 

Nigel is correct in rewarding such diffidence with a black mark. (not that he did, it was a conditional suggestion on his part).

 

It's disappointing when you need an umbrella and you find it has a hole in it. Most buyers don't consider the quality or ease of long term support at the time of purchase - so it's good when the supplier has done so on their behalf.

 

SWD's position is indeed 'a bit crap'. It might even be illegal under UK consumer law.

 

To the OP. Try Charlie at DC Kits, his ESU replace/repair policy is second to none.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

Paul,

 

You are being somewhat hypercritical as you very often mention Zimo in posts from people about ESU decoders even when no one else has previously mentioned Zimo in the topic, and go to great lengths to extol the virtues of Zimo at the expense of ESU, and have done so for many years, both on here and on other model railway forums. You've done it again here by accusing ESU of having a 'blank cheque' attitude, when ESU publish a schedule of repair costs, https://www.esu.eu/en/support/warranty-repair/reparaturen/servicepauschalen/austauschpauschalen/ 

 

Also the OP mentioned Austria, and as we all know Zimo is based in Austria. So it was possible that the OP had ESU with Zimo, or Germany with Austria.

 

I made absolutely no mention of the arrangements that Zimo have with whoever are their agents in the UK. I only referred to what appears on the Zimo Austrian website: https://www.zimo.at/web2010/sales/kundendienst_EN.htm where they talk about passing on customs clearance costs to the sender for items sent from outside the EU. Zimo also say on their website that:

 

"The repair process via the specialist dealer usually saves the shipping costs, but is often not the fastest option, as the transport in both directions is often carried out in collective packages. When sending directly to ZIMO, the fastest possible return of the product is guaranteed; however, the sender bears the shipping costs in both directions himself. This also applies to warranty cases (as these are mostly foreign shipments)."

 

Of course, if local repair or sending via a local agent is possible, then naturally I'm very pleased for the owners of Zimo kit that they can avail themselves of such a service.

[letterspider]

Let's see my Bachmann Class 90 decoder failed and was sent back to Zimo - that was fixed for free as it was obviosuly within the warranty period. That was before BRexit so no problem

The problem is  -even though repair items are supposed to be VAT exempt (and model trains as well) - if there is any error in your customs declaration then you will have to pay around £15 processing fee to collect VAT / Duty of £1

and that processing fee can NEVER be clawed back.

So fixing in the UK is preferable for piece of mind alone

 

[pauliebanger]

34 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

Paul,

 

You are being somewhat hypercritical as you very often mention Zimo in posts from people about ESU decoders even when no one else has previously mentioned Zimo in the topic, and go to great lengths to extol the virtues of Zimo at the expense of ESU, and have done so for many years, both on here and on other model railway forums. You've done it again here by accusing ESU of having a 'blank cheque' attitude, when ESU publish a schedule of repair costs, https://www.esu.eu/en/support/warranty-repair/reparaturen/servicepauschalen/austauschpauschalen/ 

 

Also the OP mentioned Austria, and as we all know Zimo is based in Austria. So it was possible that the OP had ESU with Zimo, or Germany with Austria.

 

I made absolutely no mention of the arrangements that Zimo have with whoever are their agents in the UK. I only referred to what appears on the Zimo Austrian website: https://www.zimo.at/web2010/sales/kundendienst_EN.htm where they talk about passing on customs clearance costs to the sender for items sent from outside the EU. Zimo also say on their website that:

 

"The repair process via the specialist dealer usually saves the shipping costs, but is often not the fastest option, as the transport in both directions is often carried out in collective packages. When sending directly to ZIMO, the fastest possible return of the product is guaranteed; however, the sender bears the shipping costs in both directions himself. This also applies to warranty cases (as these are mostly foreign shipments)."

 

Of course, if local repair or sending via a local agent is possible, then naturally I'm very pleased for the owners of Zimo kit that they can avail themselves of such a service.

Keith,

 

With such excellent back-up from ZIMO, it's only natural that I would want to share that info with others who may benefit. LOL.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

 

 

[pauliebanger]

12 minutes ago, letterspider said:

Let's see my Bachmann Class 90 decoder failed and was sent back to Zimo - that was fixed for free as it was obviosuly within the warranty period. That was before BRexit so no problem

The problem is  -even though repair items are supposed to be VAT exempt (and model trains as well) - if there is any error in your customs declaration then you will have to pay around £15 processing fee to collect VAT / Duty of £1

and that processing fee can NEVER be clawed back.

So fixing in the UK is preferable for piece of mind alone

 

 

You make an excellent point regarding the potential problems with cross border returns. These things are happening  on a regular basis.

 

Brexit should not affect how your in warranty Class 90 decoder would be dealt with now.

 

But, for repairs out of warranty, the position is that manufacturer repairs in the case of both ESU and ZIMO are currently only possible at their respective 'home' base, Vienna in the case of ZIMO, and Germany in the case of ESU.

 

Any business which imports goods from the EU will be in a much better position to navigate accurately through the red tape nightmare which arises from Brexit than the majority of 'end users', so they should use that expertise to smooth the way for their customers.

 

Providing a safe and secure pathway so that items for repair (which should be tax and customs duty free anyway) can cross borders without onerous additional costs is the least you should expect from businesses dealing in such high cost items. It's probably reasonable to expect that such businesses wiill hold onto items for repair until there are enough to reduce postage charges per item.

 

The ZIMO scheme allows an end user to avoid the pitfalls you mention and to immediately receive a new decoder on payment of the fixed charge, thereby also avoiding the possible lengthy turn around delays.

 

A UK repair shop may be the best solution, but would it be cost effective? I've no idea.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

 

[letterspider]

I would happily pay up to £30 for a repair - if you have the tools and expertise it would be worthwhile at those rates.

I don't have the tools and I don't fancy finding out the hard way how steady my hands and eyes are!

[pauliebanger]

The fixed ZIMO repair fee I mentioned is £18 for any age decoder*. Some dealers that you can choose add an admin charge, other, much longer established ZIMO dealers don't. As usual, select your initial supplier carefully.

 

*there's no time limit provided correct replacement components are still available.

 

 

For balance, I checked out ESU's scale of charges from the link helpfully provided by Keith, Going Underground, copied below.

https://www.esu.eu/en/support/warranty-repair/reparaturen/servicepauschalen/austauschpauschalen/

 

The equivalent repair fee for ESU Loksound 5 is 45 Euros.

Except that it is not really that equivalent to the ZIMO UK offering. To the ESU fee quoted you must add postage both ways, (because SWD will not handle your repair), risk tax and or customs and post office handling charges (because SWD will not handle your repair) and even then it only applies to decoders out of warranty with dated purchase receipt which are less than thee years old. This service specifically excludes decoders installed by model manufacturers ex-factory.

So that's a bit crap, too, wouldn't you agree?

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

Edited September 19, 2021 by pauliebanger
Amplification

[Crosland]

On 17/09/2021 at 17:02, Nigelcliffe said:

Which is a bit crap isn't it ?    Working out returns post-Brexit requires looking up the correct paperwork.  A pro-active UK agent would work this out for you, and offer a service.

 

It's not too difficult. So long as the package is clearly marked as "faulty goods being returned for repair" they should get through customs. We've been doing this for years for returns from outside the EU and now, post brexit, from the EU. We also send repaired goods back the other way to the EU with no customs problems, so far.

 

EU manufacturers are, however, probably worried that end customers will not do this and the manufacturer will have to pay VAT and fees which could make the repair uneconomic. Hence the requirement to go through the local agent.

 

 

[charliepetty]

2 hours ago, Crosland said:

 

It's not too difficult. So long as the package is clearly marked as "faulty goods being returned for repair" they should get through customs. We've been doing this for years for returns from outside the EU and now, post brexit, from the EU. We also send repaired goods back the other way to the EU with no customs problems, so far.

 

EU manufacturers are, however, probably worried that end customers will not do this and the manufacturer will have to pay VAT and fees which could make the repair uneconomic. Hence the requirement to go through the local agent.

 

 

Its a shame South West Digital take this attitude, I understand all the extra paperwork & hassle but at the end of the day you are a customer.   Charlie  DCKits-Legomanbiffo

[spud]

Hi !

only just found this, so forgive me for being late.

i have successfully repaired ESU and Zimo decoders in the past !

...when you say 'the power transistor', do you mean there is no output to the motor? ( I only ask as the transistors are normally an array contained in an 8-pin chip )

 

regards