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Z21 issues with Tablet - Android, OS or Windows.


SamThomas
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I've had my (Black) Z21 for a year or so now & really pleased with it except  for last weeks issue.

 

I have a wi-fi Multimaus which is OK, works as it should but it's a bit "basic".

 

I bough an entry level Acer Tablet to run only the Z21 App (the older "colour icon" version which I prefer.

 

So far, so good except that I could not back up my data, either to a memory stick, SD Card or to my desktop via the internet/email.

 

Did not worry too much until last week & the tablet would not start, despite many efforts & a trip to the local computer/phone shop that can usually kick most things into life.

 

A few people have inferred that the Acer is "built to a price" & that I should have spent more on a Samsung or even look at Apple.

 

Just like to ask for peoples experiences so that I can compare ;

 

Android & various makes of Tablets.

 

Apple (TBH, I'm not a fan of Apple).

 

Running the App on a Winows 10 desktop (I understand that the forthcoming W11 will run Android Apps as "native".

 

I have run "Leapdroid" Android emulater on an old PC & that seems to work albeit slowly.

 

Huawei appear to be good value for money but do not appear to be fully Android compatable.

 

Just peoples thoughts/experiences please to help me decide which way to go or maybe go for a different system (which must be able to hold 100 locomotives/units in the "stack".

 

TIA, Sam.

 

p.s. I've searched the forum & only found snippets.

Edited by SamThomas
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Windows 11 will run Android apps eventually — but not until some time next year. Even then, it will only allow you to install apps that are on the Amazon App Store (not Google Play). The most popular Android emulator at present seems to be BlueStacks (haven't tried it, though—sorry).

 

I'm not a huge fan of some aspects of the way Apple does business, but I do have an iPad. The hardware is excellent, and there is a fair range of quality apps optimised for tablets. Downsides are that you can't expand the storage—it's limited to whatever you buy it with. As a result iPads with 32Gb storage often turn up quite cheaply secondhand.

 

You should be able to back up an iPad to a PC using the iTunes software, but be warned — this is a very memory-hungry piece of software which is inclined to crash a lot. (On Macs, it's been replaced by separate bits of software to play music, play videos and so on.) There is a reason why most guides to iTunes tell you how to kill it off…

Edited by D9020 Nimbus
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I use an iPad and a cheap (£35) android phone and have found that the best way to back up either is via Bluetooth to an iPad mini then by email to my laptop, I know that it’s a bit long winded but as it works every time about twice a year for the last 4 years I think it’s not much trouble!

 

 I also have an old iPad that I bought second hand for £60 and as it shows both loco controls and points side by side it’s the one I use most.

 

regards mike 

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I am sure that even the old Z21 app allowed you to email the layout file to wherever you want. I used to do it this way to get the same layout on the phone and iPad.

 

I know I could do it on the new app, and am certain I did it this way on the old app as I used that for several years before the new app became available.

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  • 3 months later...

Last week I came to the conclusion that the problem was actually the ACER Tablet I was using.

It never seemed to be very fast at all, even from new or after a factory reset it seemed sluggish.

After entering 10 or so locomotives it got even slower.

Up till now I was using the original App, because I really don't like the colours on the new one.

 

Last week, I bought a new mid-range Samsung Tablet & because I could not find the old app loaded up the new one.

Happy to say that I now have in excess of 100 locomotives entered (keeping the "active" list to under 100).

So far all is well.

 

I may load the new app onto the ACER & just keep it for emergency use. Just a pity that the Samsung does not have 2 x Micro USB's like the ACER so that I can keep it on charge & use a keyboard & nouse at the same time.

 

Thanks for your suggestions & advice.

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  • 3 months later...

The ACER tablet has been replaced with a Galaxy Tab A7.

 

Much better than the ACER but the Wi-Fi keeps dropping out - resetting the A7 does not reconnect, neither does resetting the Router - only when I reset the Z21 itself does the Wi-Fi reconnect which is anhoying to the point I'm seriously thinking of getting shot of the Z21 & going back to something like a Twin Centre of maybe look at the ECoS - anything with a direct wired connection.

 

Just one more thing to try but can't see how to & that is to connect the A7 directly to the Router without Wi-Fi - anyone know how to do that please ?

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If the WiFi is dropping out with your tablet then it isn’t the Z21 that is at fault.

 

I suggest that you reset the WiFi router back to default, do the same with the tablet and reconnect them. The Z21 should already be connected via wire to the wireless router (which I assume is the supplied router?)

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48 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

The ACER tablet has been replaced with a Galaxy Tab A7.

 

Much better than the ACER but the Wi-Fi keeps dropping out - resetting the A7 does not reconnect, neither does resetting the Router - only when I reset the Z21 itself does the Wi-Fi reconnect which is anhoying to the point I'm seriously thinking of getting shot of the Z21 & going back to something like a Twin Centre of maybe look at the ECoS - anything with a direct wired connection.

 

Just one more thing to try but can't see how to & that is to connect the A7 directly to the Router without Wi-Fi - anyone know how to do that please ?

So you're reporting that various tablets are failing to get a reliable WiFi connection, and your proposed solution is to get rid of the Z21 and get something with a direct wired connection. I'm mystified as the Z21 only has a direct wired connection. The fact that you have plugged a wireless router into it doesn't change that fact. I've used a black Z21 and compared to a friends Twin Centre it is so much more functional. I suggest you persist with getting a tablet to connect reliably, many of us don't have problems with that.

 

If you do give up on WiFI, remember you can connect many Loconet, Xpressnet or R-Bus throttles directly to the Z21.

 

Cheers

Dave

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1 hour ago, SamThomas said:

Much better than the ACER but the Wi-Fi keeps dropping out - resetting the A7 does not reconnect, neither does resetting the Router - only when I reset the Z21 itself does the Wi-Fi reconnect

I think you may be getting two different things mixed up here.

The Router handles the Wifi connection to your tablet, the Z21 box doesn't come into it, it's just another device connected to the router. So when you say that the Wifi drops out do you mean that the tablet loses its connection to the router OR that the tablet is connected to the router but can't talk to the Z21. If resetting the Z21 is the only thing that fixes the problem then I would suggest it's the latter.

 

FWIW you could buy a USB to LAN adaptor and use that to connect tablet to the router, i think they cost about 15 quid in the UK.

 

Regards,

 

John P

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Both the ACER & the A7 would lose connection to the Z21. When the comms drops out both tablets show that they are connected to the router.

 

Resetting the tablets (that were set to auto-reconnect) would not regain communication with the Z21, neither would resetting the router, only resetting the Z21 would restore communication.

 

Next time it drops out I will check to see if the WiFi Multimaus has dropped out at the same time.

 

I have looked at using a USB-C to LANadaptor but the A7 only has one port so I can't keep the battery topped up during running sessions. I do have a ONTEN Dock that has a male USB-C a female USB-C, 2 x USB-2, HDMI & LAN ports but this needs a 20v supply so I'm assuming that the male USB-C gives ourt 20v which will not do the tablet a lot of good.

 

Maybe, I could look at using a spare W10 Laptop running Android ?

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1 hour ago, SamThomas said:

 

I have looked at using a USB-C to LANadaptor but the A7 only has one port so I can't keep the battery topped up

 

There are adaptors which have power pass-through, so can connect to both wired LAN and a power supply.  

 

 

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Don't forget that if you have a spare Windows PC lying around you can download the Z21 Maintenance app to it. You could then connect it with a LAN cable to the router and operate the Z21 with it.

You would also be able to update your Z21 to the latest firmware and do some more testing of where the issue might lie.

 

Regards,

 

John P

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A couple of things here worth noting.

 

In the Roco FAQs for the Z21 it states that a tablet will need to have a minimum of 5Gb RAM. That does seem very high and would restrict use to only premium devices. I did email Roco to ask about that but never received a reply.  I guess it's going to depend on how much you are going to be running on your Z21 app at once and also how many other apps you have running in the background at the same time.  Most cheaper tablets and phones only have 2Gb RAM but many people report using these successfully. The Samsung A7 has 3Gb.  I run 2 x Lenovo M10 tablets each with 4Gb RAM (which you can pick up for £149 each) and they are dedicated for use on my model railway so don't have other apps (except for the ones you need) running in the background. They work very well and as they both run the same layout (transfered by device to device export option in Z21 app) then I always have a backup. (I normally use one for controlling trains and the other for layout devices such as points etc.) 

 

Regarding the connection loss, more recent versions of Android will generally try to connect to another saved network if it thinks it's better.  If you have your home wifi network saved (i.e. if you checked the automatically connect box when setting up) your device will autonomously move to this network after a short while of use. This is because the Z21 router doesn't have an internet connection (unless you have connected to your home broadband router by network cable). So the android device thinks it is being helpful by moving you to a network with internet connection but this, of course, disconnects your device from the Z21 router.  You can stop this happening by going into settings/connections/wifi on your tablet and deleting any saved networks from the list showing other than your Z21 network. If the Z21 network is the only one listed then that's the only one it will automatically connect to.   This does mean that each time you need to connect to the internet via your home wifi you'll need to re-enter your network and password details again, and then delete again after, which is a bit if a pain but it should fix your problem.  In theory, you should get a pop up on screen telling you there is no internet and asking if you want to stay connected to that network but in my experience that's not always reliable. The other way to fix it is to connect your Z21 router to your broadband router by network cable which will give it an internet connection. If they aren't close enough to each other to do this ghen you can use an ethernet powerline adaptor which cost about £20. 

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19 minutes ago, jamesed said:

A couple of things here worth noting.

 

In the Roco FAQs for the Z21 it states that a tablet will need to have a minimum of 5Gb RAM. That does seem very high and would restrict use to only premium devices.

 

My several years old Samung Tab A6, which I use with the Z21 cost under £100 new and had 8Gb as standard.

Hardly a premium device.

 

The latest Argos price for a Tab A7 8.7" with 32Gb is £149.

That is not a premium device, they are much higher up the price list.

 

Just checked my mobile.

It is a Motorola (Lenovo) cost £149 and has 32Gb, this is not a premium price phone. Also works fine with the Z21

Edited by melmerby
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1 minute ago, melmerby said:

My several years old Samung Tab A6, which I use with the Z21 cost under £100 new and had 8Gb as standard.

Hardly a premium device.

 

The latest Argos price for a Tab A7 8.7" with 32Gb is £149.

That is not a premium device, they are much higher up the price list.

 

There is a difference between run time RAM, which is what is required to run a program  (and 5Gb is stupidly high for a single program, and I suspect is wrong), and storage memory (what is typically quoted for a tablet or phone, and is analogous to "hard disc space"). 

 

 The A7 Tablet you mention has 3Gb of RAM for program and operating system execution.   The older Tab A6 has 1.5Gb of RAM.

 

 

- Nigel

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This is what Roco states as a requirement for the app

Quote

 

System requirements

 

Our Z21 app currently supports devices with iOS version 11 and above and with android version 5 and above in order to provide the full functionality. 

 

Tablets and smartphones with an older system version still have access to our previous app which is also available in the App Store and in the Google Play Store. 

 

 

No mention of RAM requirements that I can see.

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2 minutes ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

There is a difference between run time RAM, which is what is required to run a program  (and 5Gb is stupidly high for a single program, and I suspect is wrong), and storage memory (what is typically quoted for a tablet or phone, and is analogous to "hard disc space"). 

 

 The A7 Tablet you mention has 3Gb of RAM for program and operating system execution.   The older Tab A6 has 1.5Gb of RAM.

 

 

- Nigel

I thought the 5Gb quoted was the storage required not for program execution.

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10 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

This is what Roco states as a requirement for the app

 

No mention of RAM requirements that I can see.

The app can be used in iOS 11 and above, and Android 5 and above (with min. 5 GB RAM). For older versions the old Z21 app can be useds (blue icon with taurus ...

 

Roco's description

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Z21 App - Products - Roco z21

 

Personally I would go by the stated system requirements rather than FAQs because stated System Requirements would  seem to be more binding than a FAQ, though there should be consistency. FAQs are rarely written by system developers, whereas System Requirements are generally specified by the developer.

 

To back up my point on the accuracy of FAQs the German version of FAQs states it is 2GB of RAM

 

If anyone cares sufficiently then they could always write to Roco and request clarification 😆

 

 

Edited by WIMorrison
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If there is a recommended 5Gb RAM minimum, AFAIAC that means user storage not operating system space. Nobody normally quotes that.

The Android & iOS devices will have enough space to store and operate a large number of apps but they do need storage RAM to store all the info the users input such as locos, turnouts, track diagrams etc. That does not go in the operating system space.

Edited by melmerby
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