Faulty printing on Hornby locomotives

[Farang]

I bought Ellerman Lines, nice model but the number on the left hand cab side was not  level. The number on the other side was fine.

I returned it to the retailer but they could not replace it as all their stock had the same fault.

I wrote to Lyndon Davies about this on 9th August and I am still waiting for reply.

A couple of years ago I had the same problem with a S15. Again it was the number on the left hand cab side that was printed at a pronounced angle. Again the retailer could not replace it as all their stock had the same fault.

Have others experienced this problem?

[Black 5 Bear]

5 minutes ago, Farang said:

I bought Ellerman Lines, nice model but the number on the left hand cab side was not  level. The number on the other side was fine.

I returned it to the retailer but they could not replace it as all their stock had the same fault.

I wrote to Lyndon Davies about this on 9th August and I am still waiting for reply.

A couple of years ago I had the same problem with a S15. Again it was the number on the left hand cab side that was printed at a pronounced angle. Again the retailer could not replace it as all their stock had the same fault.

Have others experienced this problem?

Unfortunately, yes but not with my particular model of 35029.

I had a late crest S15 from the first batch which had a sloping cab number. Hornby said they could send a replacement but this particular model all appeared to have the same defect.

To remedy this, I decided to have this loco renumbered/weathered by Steve of Grimytimes in Warrington and what a superb job he did of it.

 

[scouse889]

Sounds like a similar problem to the wavy writing on the side of the NMT HST power cars they produced a few years ago. I am no expert on printing processes but IIRC I read somewhere that this problem was the result of too much pressure being used in the tampo printing of the decals which made them wave. If it is a similar problem with the printing set up it will probably affect the whole batch. In the end, Hornby reissued the body shells for the HST and provided replacements FOC to anyone with an affected model. So maybe best thing is to let Hornby customer services know you are not happy, if you have not done so already… then wait…!

[Farang]

I wrote to Lyndon Davies on 9th August and am waiting for his reply.

[newbryford]

5 minutes ago, Farang said:

I wrote to Lyndon Davies on 9th August and am waiting for his reply.

 

Don't hold you breath awaiting a reply from Hornby.

 

[Black 5 Bear]

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

 

Don't hold you breath awaiting a reply from Hornby.

 

To be fair to Hornby, I've always found their customer service department pretty good in responding to enquiries.

They do stipulate on the automated response that they will endeavour to respond within 3 working day. After all we don't know how many people actually work within that department and what their other duties may entail.

[newbryford]

3 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

To be fair to Hornby, I've always found their customer service department pretty good in responding to enquiries.

They do stipulate on the automated response that they will endeavour to respond within 3 working day. After all we don't know how many people actually work within that department and what their other duties may entail.

 

But I'm now on 3 months not including reminders and that's not for the first time.

Edited September 22, 2021 by newbryford

[Black 5 Bear]

4 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

But I'm now on 3 months not including reminders and that's not for the first time.

Phone call ?

[newbryford]

2 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Phone call ?

 

Email to the head honcho...... then a phone call after another 3 months.....

Edited September 22, 2021 by newbryford

[newbryford]

23 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Email to the head honcho...... then a phone call after another 3 months.....

 

To his credit SK replied quite promptly.

 

Not the outcome I was hoping for, but at least I have some resolution to my query from January.

[Farang]

Two years on..................

Dealers have been advertising R3649 Ellerman Lines for around £130.

This morning I phoned a dealer who had it for £130.00 and mentioned the problem with the number on the left-hand cabside not being level.

He immediately admitted that all the models had that fault which was why Hornby were clearing them. Hornby only produced one batch of this item.

I wrote to Lyndon Davies about this in August 2021. He never replied.

So, if you can live with the faulty printing it's a bargain.

[HExpressD]

1 hour ago, Farang said:

I wrote to Lyndon Davies about this in August 2021. He never replied.

To be fair I wouldn't imagine he'd be likely to, even when he was C.E.O. There are people that companies hire to liaise with customers regarding issues, they're called customer services, why not contact them instead? 

[Capel]

Can I just say, if any of you reading are considering getting one, I did buy an Ellerman Lines last October for a similar price (was a gamble since returns are difficult for me) and the numbers were level (in fact it was the first thing I checked on receipt 🤣), so there are alright ones out there!

[Farang]

18 hours ago, HExpressD said:

To be fair I wouldn't imagine he'd be likely to, even when he was C.E.O. There are people that companies hire to liaise with customers regarding issues, they're called customer services, why not contact them instead? 

Why not write to the very top? Davies could have passed the letter to Customer Services.

[phil-b259]

15 hours ago, Farang said:

Why not write to the very top? Davies could have passed the letter to Customer Services.

 

(Note this is NOT a dig at Hornby)

 

When getting a satisfactory response out of an organisation is proving difficult then some advocate writing to the 'top person' in the organisation - presumably under the impression they will 'kick arse' / issue an 'action this day' type instruction to whichever department is at fault.

 

However in reality this rarely brings results - top people are far too busy / couldn't care less about private consumers woes (and if they did then their customer service department would most likely be good at resolving things without intervention from on high.

 

In most cases what brings results is going to the media, or in extremis starting action at the small claims court / with trading standards - at which point most companies will do anything to resolve the matter (so that a formal precedent is not set in law). Unfortunately for modellers, livery issues with 'toy trains' are unlikely to be considered interesting / important...

[sandwich station]

19 hours ago, Farang said:

Why not write to the very top? Davies could have passed the letter to Customer Services.

 

You would be better off contacting Simon Kohler.

[Phil Bullock]

Whilst I appreciate that a new model should be right if purchasing this model with a known numbering fault which offends would it be that difficult to renumber? 

[GWR-fan]

6 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

..........................................................

 

When getting a satisfactory response out of an organisation is proving difficult then some advocate writing to the 'top person' in the organisation - presumably under the impression they will 'kick arse' / issue an 'action this day' type instruction to whichever department is at fault.

 

However in reality this rarely brings results -......................................................................

 

It was many years ago now but this is exactly what I did and got results,  although much more heavy handed than I had expected.   For years I had been renovating my then home and had purchased every single item from one large discount furniture/building supply store.  This is now the largest franchise stoe of its type in Australia,  but at the time of my letter (pre-email/internet days) the owner of the store,  not quite yet a multi-multi-millionaire responded to my letter with a complaint about a sales manager in the store who had basically lied to me.  Not really expecting a reply to my correspondence I was very surprised to receive an urgent phone call at my work from said sales manager who was in tears and said that if I was not satisfied  with a solution to the issue then the manager was facing dismissal.  I calmed the situation and let the matter slide without any action being taken.  It did though raise the level of esteem that I felt for the company owner who years later and already exceedingly wealthy (now a billionaire I believe) still considered his customers to be treated with respect.

[Wheatley]

7 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

(Note this is NOT a dig at Hornby)

 

When getting a satisfactory response out of an organisation is proving difficult then some advocate writing to the 'top person' in the organisation - presumably under the impression they will 'kick arse' / issue an 'action this day' type instruction to whichever department is at fault.

 

However in reality this rarely brings results - top people are far too busy / couldn't care less about private consumers woes (and if they did then their customer service department would most likely be good at resolving things without intervention from on high.

 

In most cases what brings results is going to the media, or in extremis starting action at the small claims court / with trading standards - at which point most companies will do anything to resolve the matter (so that a formal precedent is not set in law). Unfortunately for modellers, livery issues with 'toy trains' are unlikely to be considered interesting / important...

It depends on the organisation. I've had plenty of emails from my MD or his PA along the lines of "Please resolve and advise MD what our position is", often the reply is "We've dealt with this in accordance with policy but the customer doesn't like the response". Occasionally it's something that's got lost further down the chain and just needs someone to take ownership. If it's the first contact then it will just get pushed back down to whoever should deal with it. 

 

Small claims court etc - again it depends. It's worth doing but not necessarily for the reasons stated. Small claims don't in themselves set a precedent, higher courts do that, so a solicitor's letter or even a Claims Form isn't necessarily as scary as some people think (some are but not often). It's worth doing because there are timescales attached to the response, after which it defaults and you get paid (or at least you get judgement entered in your favour). Some quite large organisations don't have in-house legal teams, they might have a solicitor on a retainer but they aren't going to deal with small claims stuff, it will be dealt with by whichever department is responsible for whatever went wrong. If the claim gets passed around for to long, or if it goes nowhere because no-one knows who should be dealing with it but everyone knows it's not them, then it will default and they lose. If it gets (correctly) served on a Group Registered Office 500 miles away it could take a while for it to get to the right place, by which time it's defaulted and they lose. A lot depends on who opens the post and how sharp individual PAs and secretaries are. There should in theory be a lot less of this now that most of this is dealt with on line through the MoJ Portal but solicitors still game it and occasionally a Court will issue an order via snail mail which just states "Bloggs -v- Your Company will default to the claimant if no response is made within X days" and there's then a huge flap to find out who Bloggs is and what he's sued us for because there's no clue on the letter.  The obvious solution of just ringing the issuing Court to find out is one of the most soul destroying experiences imaginable. 

 

Threatening a reasonably sized company with a solicitor is pointless, either do it or don't do it. I have on at least one occasion begged a customer to instruct a solicitor, because then I only have to deal with the solicitor and they at least know how the Civil Procedures Rules work and aren't (usually) deranged and/or basing their legal arguments on what they've read on Facebook).  

 

What does get results, almost without fail, is a letter from an MP. If you can persuade your MP that wonky numbering is worth their effort on your behalf then go for it.  

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Wheatley

[MikeParkin65]

How wonky is the number on your model? Looking at the photo's on Kernows website I have to admit I can't see a problem at all. Full sympathy if yours is worse but as @Phil Bullock says if it offends that much then either renumber yourself or get one of the many companies that provide a renumbering service to do it for for you. £130 is a bargain in the first place so if it were me I'd go the whole hog and get a set of etched plates fitted at the same time. Life is too short to be wasting good modelling time complaining about the fixable. 

[Farang]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

How wonky is the number on your model? Looking at the photo's on Kernows website I have to admit I can't see a problem at all. Full sympathy if yours is worse but as @Phil Bullock says if it offends that much then either renumber yourself or get one of the many companies that provide a renumbering service to do it for for you. £130 is a bargain in the first place so if it were me I'd go the whole hog and get a set of etched plates fitted at the same time. Life is too short to be wasting good modelling time complaining about the fixable. 

You won't see this in a photo on Kernow's website because the photo is not side-on. The price of £130 may be a bargain but unless you're told the model has a fault, the printing, you'd expect it to be perfect. If the retailer tells you about the fault then it's up to you, your choice to purchase or not. And when you receive it, again, it's your choice to renumber or not depending on how bad you perceive the fault with the printing. The printing on one side was correct, the other side should have been correct. This shows a lack of QC at the factory. I'm not paying £130 and then another £35 or so on renumbering - my choice.

[Farang]

TMC was offering this model at a reduced price. When I phoned to place the order I mentioned the problem with the printing and was told all models were like that. Top marks to TMC for being up-front with this. I ordered from Bure Valley for £127.50 I did ask them to inspect it but again the printing is slightly out. I have emailed Hornby Customer Services and await their reply. When selling these models did Hornby state there was a problem with the printing? If so then isn't the onus on the retailer to mention that in their advert or on their website?

 

I have just bought Channel Packet and the right hand cab number plate is not level. That model has gone straight back to Hornby FAO Simon Davies-Kohler. At over £200 that is not good enough. I've bought Coronations, Princesses, A4, A2/3 and they've all been fine.

[Ravenser]

On 21/03/2023 at 15:40, Farang said:

TMC was offering this model at a reduced price. When I phoned to place the order I mentioned the problem with the printing and was told all models were like that. Top marks to TMC for being up-front with this. I ordered from Bure Valley for £127.50 I did ask them to inspect it but again the printing is slightly out. I have emailed Hornby Customer Services and await their reply. When selling these models did Hornby state there was a problem with the printing? If so then isn't the onus on the retailer to mention that in their advert or on their website?

 

I have just bought Channel Packet and the right hand cab number plate is not level. That model has gone straight back to Hornby FAO Simon Davies-Kohler. At over £200 that is not good enough. I've bought Coronations, Princesses, A4, A2/3 and they've all been fine.

 

Having got  a bargain loco, would it not be simpler just to remove the number on the affected side and apply transfers?.

 

While Fox don't do BR Brunswick Green or Southern Malachite obliteration patches, waterslide transfer paper is available from, Amazon eBay and various other sources for about 10 quid.

 

Just paint a little bit of it in the appropriate colour, cut out and apply. (You can check the colour match against the loco - and if necessary adjust for a perfect match) Then re-apply the number using transfers from one of the major suppliers

 

[big jim]

5 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

 

Having got  a bargain loco, would it not be simpler just to remove the number on the affected side and apply transfers?.

 

 

or if your layout allows just run it with the wonky side facing away from you! 

[Farang]

10 hours ago, big jim said:

or if your layout allows just run it with the wonky side facing away from you! 

 

Having got  a bargain loco, would it not be simpler just to remove the number on the affected side and apply transfers?.

 

This may have been a bargain but did Hornby sell these models to retailers at a very low price because they had a known fault i.e. the printing? If that is the case, and retailers knew it, then they should have advertised them with the proviso that the models had faulty printing. That way the customer has the choice to buy or not.