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Various unusual items of rolling stock in the Background of Nottingham Victoria negs in @1928


Rail-Online
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3 hours ago, Rail-Online said:

Firstly is this a NER bogie CCT or from another railway?

It's an ex-North British Railway bogie covered carriage truck in LNER livery.

 

3 hours ago, Rail-Online said:

And the last, a pair of open CCTs

At the risk of being thought a pedant, these are open carriage trucks, which BR coded CTO.  'MK' is, I think, the LNER telegraphic code.  These are ex-NER vehicles.  Here is a similar one, E76E, in later life.

 

1309582021_Scan_20181227(36).jpg.8a143778e65e6e1fff0a9b8a1038f0ff.jpg

 

(Dennis Seabrook Collection/LNER Society)

 

 

D

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1 hour ago, Rail-Online said:

Any idea what the writing between the N & E says on the NBR van?

Not really, no.  The drawing in Historic Carriage Drawings volume three of one in NBR livery shows the legend:-

 

COACHING VAN

RETURN TO CRAIGENTINNY CARRIAGE SIDINGS

 

but I'm not convinced that's what it says here.

 

D

 

 

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3 hours ago, Rail-Online said:

Found another one.  Actually at Nottingham NR carriage sidings.  This very short LMS Van could just be a LT&SR Hearse Van (as produced by Wills many years ago)

 

Tony

x is this a LTSR Hearse van.jpg

The LT&SR van was actually to carry bullion, hence the windows to provide a bit of light to the safes at each end. A very elusive pair of vehicles.

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4 hours ago, Rail-Online said:

Soory I could not manage to add multiple images with caption sin between, here is the second:

 

Could this be a rare PO van and what ends in xxxT(?)TES apart from Cigarettes?

x Could this be an elusive  PO van.jpg

 

The general styling looks Great Central-ish - compare the insulated and refrigerated vans on pp. 138-9 of Tatlow Vol. 1. The number, 5166, sounds most unlikely for a private owner fleet, but I can't quickly relate it to anything in Tatlow Vols. 1 & 2. I suspect it is an ex-GCR vehicle that is branded up for a particular firm's traffic.

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Just now, Forward! said:

The lamp iron mounted on the corner post is definitely something you see on MSLR and GCR wagons.

 

But not exclusively. It's a standard fitting on any fitted or piped vehicle that might run on the tail of a passenger train.

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Are we definitely looking at the same van in all those pics? The last picture looks like a van that has step boards, and is there the faintest suggestion of diagonal side strapping? Could of course be lineside standing in front of the van, or an artefact of photography, I suppose.

 

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58 minutes ago, Rail-Online said:

Found a second neg of it, plus one from an earlier period!

 

Tony

 

x Player's Navy Cut Different PO van @ 1921 Nott Vic.jpg

 

9 minutes ago, Forward! said:

Are we definitely looking at the same van in all those pics? The last picture looks like a van that has step boards, and is there the faintest suggestion of diagonal side strapping? Could of course be lineside standing in front of the van, or an artefact of photography, I suppose.

 

As @Rail-Online stated - It's one from an earlier period.  Different van design entirely, but the lettering is similar.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Fascinating pictures, I don't ever recall seeing Players Cigarettes private owner vans before. Given modern sensitivities, I can't see the likes of Hornby or Bachmann producing this as a model anytime soon... 
We are definitely looking at two different vans here at least, one has simple spring shoes, the other has J-hanger auxiliary suspension. And the one in the distant shot has step boards beneath the doors. I suspect all have a passenger-rated underframe judging by the clasp brakes and, as noted above, the corner lamp irons enabling inclusion in passenger trains. Would make a fascinating model, if anyone can come up with some dimensions or other details I could try a 3D print. 

Edited by 5D_Stoke
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5 minutes ago, 5D_Stoke said:

if anyone can come up with some dimensions or other details I could try a 3D print. 

 

That shouldn't be a problem since they are standard Great Central vans - see P. Tatlow, LNER Wagons Vol. 1. The only difference is in the lettering.

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6 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

A vanload of ciggies in the days when everybody smoked would have been quite valuable.

So would that need special security like whisky traffic? 

There is a quote from a book here, where it states that 170,000 cigarettes were stolen from a Player's Cigarette van and the gang got 5 years each.

 

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=YhY7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=players+cigarettes+railway+van&source=bl&ots=Hyq6DctHz5&sig=ACfU3U3o8YrzKxDr0u17-E9UawxRTQWSaQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjH5K_Zi8TzAhWSbn0KHcePA7kQ6AF6BAgUEAM#v=onepage&q=players cigarettes railway van&f=false

 

A bit surprising really to carry such goods in a sign written van, would have thought it would be more secure in an unmarked van.

 

With the rising cost of tobacco products (in Australia, the sales tax automatically goes up every 6 months - to discourage smoking), a standard box van, would hold a small fortune.

Edited by kevinlms
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I’m 90% sure that in the 1920/30s either Mills or Leeds Model Company made that Player’s van in 0 gauge, either in wood and paper-litho, or wood with the text applied by transfers. I can’t readily find a photo on-line, but will keep looking.

 

They made other branded vans, including Bovril, and I’m never sure which ones were based on reality, and if they were how long the real liveries lasted.

 

PS: Here’s what I’m remembering, not quite the same though.

 

 

 

 

DA0A9110-08F5-40EE-96E7-577993E39193.jpeg

Edited by Nearholmer
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14 minutes ago, billbedford said:

The Player's vans were owned by the railways, not PO. As far as I can see they were standard GC diagram 10s, but with extra locks so that they could carry bonded goods, ie the locks could be sealed by customs. They were normally used between Swansea and Nottingham. 

 

Both seem to be fitted or at least piped. The more modern one has the features of the 16 ft vans in Tatlow Vol. 1 (so diagram 13?) though there's no photo of one with quite the arrangement of brake gear seen here. The earlier, smaller, one, with steps to the doors, doesn't match anything in the GC section of Tatlow Vol. 1 - either it didn't make it to the LNER or, just possibly, it was classed as NPCS?

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There were two GC diagram book, one in 1910 an the other later became LNE-C he's the confusion  over diagram numbers. 

The Players vans were fitted, and brakes visible were the lifting link type used on fish vans and later 19' fitted vans. 

The earlier van with the step boards is what the GC called a dummy van. These were build in batches of small numbers for special traffics

Diagram 13 was 16' long, like this players van, but had sliding doors. 

 

 

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