Foamboard as a track underlay

[Lissadell]

I have read a number of times of this material being used as an alternative to the traditional cork.

 

I am building a small amount of 7mm scale track using wood sleepers and plastic chairs and was contemplating how it might “sit” on foam board ie being a fairly soft material.

I wondered what’s it like to work with - for this particular purpose ie below 7mm track.

 

Also how do colleagues find it best fixed to the board eg glue (type?), double sided sticky tape etc

 

A typical thickness in use seems to be 5mm - at the moment quite decent sized pieces of this seem to be available for modest cost - this led me to contemplate a sandwich of two layers.

 

I appreciate the complexities of sound deadening given the influence of various baseboard materials, their construction method, the glue used etc.  Perhaps we’re trying to run on a sound box that just amplifies sound!

 

Which I guess brings me back to foam board - to fit or not to fit?

 

I would welcome the input of colleagues with experience of this material

 

best regards

 

Adrian

[ROSSPOP]

I have used foam board ( 3x 5mm thickness) on my 7mm layout. Don`t do it.  The foam will disintegrate over time and is affected by temperature if not glued down well.

 

 

 

 

  Mine has been  successful but once ballasted does`nt really lessen the sound in any way.  Cork or the underlay from Woodland Scenics is more reliable.

 

 

[Simond]

I've used it for buildings and bridges and the like, never used it as a track bed.  It may work well but I suspect it will not deaden the noise much.  I stuck it together with PVA.

 

Other options include foam bedrolls - and sheet foam is available online and from specialist stockholders.  Whatever you use, you don't want an open cell sponge that will wick up the ballast glue and become a rigid lump!

 

 

Simon

[brossard]

Foamboard is a useful material for buildings I have found.  I have seen it in the usual 5mm thickness and not so usual 3.5mm in my art supply store.

 

For my 7mm layout I used the Woodland Scenics (also from C&L and Hattons) closed cell foam.  I also used Aileen's Tacky Glue to fix everything.  I was looking for a system that decouples the rumbling of the rolling stock from the boards.  I really can't say whether that was successful since I haven't done any noise tests.

 

Track has been laid and operating for about a year and it all works well.

 

John

[Lissadell]

Thanks very much to the three members who replied very promptly with their thoughts - very helpful.

 

I wonder, given the sound deadening properties of the various underlay types is debatable, once ballast is subject to the glue treatment, could I venture that a layer of  such materials  could be dispensed with in certain situations?

 

Where a ballast shoulder is going to be visible, then raising the track height to enable an underlay to be employed is quite understandable.

However, in situations such as yards where there may be little ballast remaining visible and where surrounding ground is level with and encroaches on sleeper heights, does underlay serve any purpose?

 

I wonder have any members had any luck reducing rumbles, as the board vibrates with a passing train, by the fitting of the thick white foam sheet eg 50mm Kingspan, to the underside of the board?  Is there any worthwhile muting or deadening effect by taking this approach?

 

Looking forward to the further thoughts of Ross, Simon and John!

 

best

 

Adrian

[ROSSPOP]

Personally I would`nt be too bothered about sound deadening because it also depends on how quiet and rattle free your loco gearbox mechanisms are. If you are also a follower of DCC sound in your locos you won`t notice any other noises !!!

 

My boards are only 2 inches deep with just ply and foam sheets on top...... the point motors are noisier than the locos !!!

 

I used 3mm thick sleepers so the ballast can be shaped into it`s own `shoulder`  all kept in place by spraying your carefully placed and shaped ballast with either surgical spirit or isopropyl alcohol  before applying the traditional PVA/soap mix...

 

This is track on Woodland scenic underlay with a noisy mechanism.

 

 

.........and again on 4mm thick ballasted track with sound turned down a bit...

 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by ROSSPOP

[brossard]

2 hours ago, Lissadell said:

Thanks very much to the three members who replied very promptly with their thoughts - very helpful.

 

I wonder, given the sound deadening properties of the various underlay types is debatable, once ballast is subject to the glue treatment, could I venture that a layer of  such materials  could be dispensed with in certain situations?

 

Where a ballast shoulder is going to be visible, then raising the track height to enable an underlay to be employed is quite understandable.

However, in situations such as yards where there may be little ballast remaining visible and where surrounding ground is level with and encroaches on sleeper heights, does underlay serve any purpose?

 

I wonder have any members had any luck reducing rumbles, as the board vibrates with a passing train, by the fitting of the thick white foam sheet eg 50mm Kingspan, to the underside of the board?  Is there any worthwhile muting or deadening effect by taking this approach?

 

Looking forward to the further thoughts of Ross, Simon and John!

 

best

 

Adrian

 

The other thought I have is on ballasting which I haven't got to yet.  Rather than use PVA as is usual, I had a notion to try diluting the Tackyglue so that the ballast layer doesn't set rock hard.  All my locos have sound so, as the other John points out, any rumble is going be masked by that.

 

Here's a video taken recently:

 

https://www.facebook.com/BritishModelRailwayMontreal/videos/561733214977985/

 

No rumble that I can detect.

 

John

Edited September 23, 2021 by brossard

[The Bigbee Line]

For my '2 penneth', I'm not bothering next time as I don't model a main line.  If I did I would use laminate floor underlay.  My 'go to' material for structures, track base, scenery etc.  It's easy to cut and a few 'thin' screws will hold it down.  The shoulders can be shaped with a knife and then sanded with 80 grit paper...

 

[pwr]

I havae always used cork on my layouts. On Black Notley I used thin ply for the track under the bridge deck and ballasted direct to that hoping it would result in a roar as a loco ran over it. I was mistaken - it sounds just like the cork section! Seems to me I may have been wasting my time with cork and as John says if you've got sound (i don't) you won't notice it anyway.

 

Paul R

[brossard]

3 hours ago, pwr said:

I havae always used cork on my layouts. On Black Notley I used thin ply for the track under the bridge deck and ballasted direct to that hoping it would result in a roar as a loco ran over it. I was mistaken - it sounds just like the cork section! Seems to me I may have been wasting my time with cork and as John says if you've got sound (i don't) you won't notice it anyway.

 

Paul R

 

I had always used cork in the past but decided that for my latest layout I would think a bit out of the box.  I was reassured in the use of the WS foam trackbed after reading an MRJ article about a P4 layout that used the foam. The author professed himself pleased with the result.  Good enough for me and, so far, I am pleased with the result too.

 

John

[Lord of Narnia]

This is a really interesting topic. 
 

I was looking at a foam sheet (the type used for slab perimeter with screeds) below a thin layer of cork just to try and reduce the noise leaves. I wasn’t sure how well the ballast would adhere to the foam hence the cork on top of the foam. Will this work do we think?

[simon b]

1 hour ago, Lord of Narnia said:

This is a really interesting topic. 
 

I was looking at a foam sheet (the type used for slab perimeter with screeds) below a thin layer of cork just to try and reduce the noise leaves. I wasn’t sure how well the ballast would adhere to the foam hence the cork on top of the foam. Will this work do we think?

 

 

The problem with any underlay is that as soon as you glue and ballast it becomes rigid and transfers the noise to the board anyway. The only noticeable way I have found to reduce noise is to cover the entire underside of the board and all the cross members in noise reducing foam, the thicker the better.

 

[brossard]

19 minutes ago, simon b said:

 

The problem with any underlay is that as soon as you glue and ballast it becomes rigid and transfers the noise to the board anyway. The only noticeable way I have found to reduce noise is to cover the entire underside of the board and all the cross members in noise reducing foam, the thicker the better.

 

 

From my experience it doesn't if you use something like "Tacky Glue" to adhere the foam and track underlay along with the track itself.  Tacky Glue looks like PVA but dries flexible.  Therefore between the foam and Tacky Glue you have a pretty effective sound barrier.

 

TBF I haven't ballasted yet so that remains to be seen.  I will try dilute TG when the time comes.

 

John

Edited August 14, 2022 by brossard

[Lord of Narnia]

Thanks I think I’ll look at the tacky glue. Was originally looking at something like Copydex which is similar I guess?

 

I’ll have to do some mock up sections and see.

[brossard]

13 minutes ago, Lord of Narnia said:

Thanks I think I’ll look at the tacky glue. Was originally looking at something like Copydex which is similar I guess?

 

I’ll have to do some mock up sections and see.

 

Very good idea to do some mockups.  You need to see for yourself what works for you.

 

Copydex is unknown here so I can't compare.  From what I have read, Tacky Glue smells better.

 

My layout has been in a working state for probably two years and I am going through the detailing process.  The foam and glue have proven to be reliable.

 

John

[Ben Alder]

I use Tracklay underlay on top of 5mm closed cell foam attached to the baseboards and the track and Tracklay are not glued to the base foam but held in place by cork infill and allowed to float. This gives an almost silent running and has the bonus of making ballasting an almost instant  easy job.  Link to the product and a blog post on how I used it. No pics there ATM, but I am going to restore these in a day or two. HTH.

 

https://tracklay.co.uk/product/oo-gauge-underlay-from

 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Ben Alder

[Geep7]

Having used tacky glue and copydex recently, I can honestly say i'll be using tacky glue from now on..... it's easier to work with, and doesn't have the horrible smell copydex has. Mind you, it's not that cheap, but a little goes a long way, and if used with the WS foam underlay, you get very good sound deadening, although I have ballasted my track yet.