Hornby: A Model World

[PJT]

10 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Where's Bob Symes-Shutzmann when you need him? 

 

 

Never mind playing with things you shouldn't be touching, he made a fully working Class 47.

 

They don't make model programmes like they used to do....

 

 

Ah, now you're talking.  I remember his TV programmes with much fondness.  Such a character.  His model of Horsted Keynes that featured in one or two (some?) of his programmes was one of those key sources of inspiration for me when I started out building my own model railways.

 

Pete T.

 

 

[stonojnr]

8 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

I would of expected given the amount of Spits they have produced over the years a Trip anywhere would not be been needed.

 

I think theres an element of "made for television" about alot of what we see on this show, to create more of a storyline with how they seem to design things or do things there, I cant imagine the majority of imagery theyve been taking as theyve shown on tv has been that useful when back at base trying to translate it to a CAD program, they were struggling to hold the measuring stick even remotely level the other week whilst taking supposedly critical measurements, and you dont see reference images blown up to magnify the detail sat around their workstations, with them cross checking the detail, which Id have expected was a key review stage.

 

though its also probably just as useful for Hornby to get their younger designers up close and personal with the objects they are modelling,and gaining that experience & insight as part of developing their skillset, but that doesnt translate well onto screen, so they come up with this ruse that they really need to go see a train or a plane to take some new measurements or photos,video of it, and it then lets them fill in some background on the vehicle, why Hornby want to model it as a product etc, explain some detail or history about it, and before you know it youve made 5mins of content.

 

it does feel like the filler content is increasing week on week though at the moment.

[stonojnr]

On 09/11/2021 at 00:00, NIK said:

Hi,

 

I was surprised to see a Hornby 4 VEP get an airing in the latest episode (in the part on the repair department). I think that section on getting the coach work repaired was edited as I found getting the body off the motor coach quite difficult especially with the short lead between the chassis and the roof. I was kind of pleased to see the Hornby technician broke something while trying to release the motor bogie from its mount.

 

as a trained technician in my youth, the one thing I expected him to really break holding that kind of flat headed screwdriver in the way he did as he tried to pry the fixing apart was likely to be his hand if the screwdriver suddenly slipped, its definitely not the technique to use or copy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fireline]

8 hours ago, stonojnr said:

 

as a trained technician in my youth, the one thing I expected him to really break holding that kind of flat headed screwdriver in the way he did as he tried to pry the fixing apart was likely to be his hand if the screwdriver suddenly slipped, its definitely not the technique to use or copy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you contacted him to advise him? I'm sure he'd appreciate the benefit of your experience....

[Fat Controller]

11 hours ago, PJT said:

 

 

Ah, now you're talking.  I remember his TV programmes with much fondness.  Such a character.  His model of Horsted Keynes that featured in one or two (some?) of his programmes was one of those key sources of inspiration for me when I started out building my own model railways.

 

Pete T.

 

 

Sadly deceased ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Symes ); I remember the Brush 4, which had a 'Taplin Twin' engine driving the generator. He intimated that he was going to try a diesel-hydraulic next; I don't know what became of that.

[The Stationmaster]

The 'Hornby Show' continues to do exactly what it says on the tin and basically it is there to entertain but with a strong element of information about the wider parts of our hobby. We almost certainly wouldn't see those wider parts on tv unless they were woven into something more populist such as what I now call 'The Hornby Show' and it must have been a brave editorial decision to widen it in this way although it obviously adds appeal to a different audience sector as well.    

 

It is so very easy to criticise the bits - any bits - which don't look right to us.  But we shouldn't overlook the fact that the show is aimed at a very different audience from committed railway modellers and of necessity it has to have things which add to the tension or show in a different way how Hornby approaches research.  These things are obviously shot and edited in for effect and to add 'interest' so it doesn't matter if they don't look quite right to us.

 

Sam's piece was different and really should have come with several very clear health warnings but within the programme it was all about adding a bit of fun and entertainment.   We could wince at the electrical aspects, worry at the way the roof space is used, and tear our (remaining for some of us) hair out at him running trains on carpet tiles but don't forget he has a massive following on YouTube so many watchers would have been keen to see him and might have been disappointed if he hadn't appeared in the series.  

 

The only way the series will continue to attract viewers is if it entertains and at times amuses, as well as telling some stories about how Hornby's ideas turn into models.  I'm watching it every week because I find some of it entertaining and some parts very interesting especially those looking at wider aspects of the model railway hobby and how different people approach our hobby.   Maybe we should stick to watching it for what it is and not for what we think it ought to be?

[Mike_Walker]

It can be educational as well as entertaining.  This week I found out where seafoam comes from - always wondered!

[AY Mod]

47 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Maybe we should stick to watching it for what it is and not for what we think it ought to be?

 

Stop talking common sense Mike; it's not on!

[Geep7]

On 09/11/2021 at 09:33, sjp23480 said:

Just curious but during one of the links between features there was a glimpse of a B-B-B or Bo-Bo-Bo loco, in green and looking a little like the English Electric Type 3 and Type 4 designs.

 

Does anyone know what that was?

 

Thanks Steve

 

As already linked to, it's an Electrotren Renfe Class 278. The Renfe Class 277 Co-Co Electric Loco's look very similar and were built by English Electric at the Vulcan Foundry. The Class 278's were built in Spain I believe. Electrotren also do make a model of a 277, although not in stock at the moment.

 

I'm not sure how many people are aware, but Hornby do have a large Continental presence, also owning Rivarossi, Lima, Jouef and Electrotren as part of Hornby International. Electrotren focuses mostly on Spanish prototypes, Lima on Italian, Jouef on French, and Rivarossi the rest, plus the US. Whilst i've mostly only experience of their Electrotren range, the models i've come across / bought are stunning examples of modelling.

 

Back to the programme itself, i'm really enjoying it so far and not just for the model railway content. The stand design for the new Spitfire was ingenious, including the silhouette of the aircraft was an excellent idea. Whilst speaking of the latest episode, personally, I would never run my trains on the carpet (it was something drummed into me when I was very young) or hook them up to anything more than the regulated 12V DC supply(or DCC in my case), but if other people want to do that, then it's up to them. Tbh I'd rather my models survive with me into old age.

 

Next week's episode should be a good 'un, as it's featuring Everard Junction.

[Huw Griffiths]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

The 'Hornby Show' continues to do exactly what it says on the tin and basically it is there to entertain but with a strong element of information about the wider parts of our hobby.   

 

...   Sam's piece was different and really should have come with several very clear health warnings but within the programme it was all about adding a bit of fun and entertainment.

 

...   Maybe we should stick to watching it for what it is and not for what we think it ought to be?

 

To a certain extent, I find myself "sitting on the fence" here.

 

You've got a point about watching the series "for what it is and not for what we think it ought to be" - however, when we see stuff on there which we know to have the "potential" (sorry about the pun) to be very dangerous indeed (such as the Variac routine), I suspect that many people here would understand us finding it next to impossible to "belt" up and shut up.

 

Just for the record, I'm not accusing you of telling us to do this - far from it, in fact. However, a number of us have, at various times, been in jobs which have required constant vigilance regarding health and safety. Some of us have electrical engineering backgrounds - some have been involved in "H & S" enforcement - some work histories which include aspects of both.

 

If we see stuff that we really don't like, there were probably only ever two chances of us saying nothing - Slim and None - and Slim has just "bolted".

 

 

Of course, the series gets a number of things right - even though they might surprise some people.

 

In a previous episode, mention was made of "light bleed" on a test model of the APT - followed by ideas for how they'd be able to deal with it.

 

"Light bleed" seems to affect a number of RTR models of coaching stock and multiple units. In fact, I've sometimes considered putting together a small demo about this and other carriage lighting stuff - something which could fit into a cardboard box (which could double as part of the demo setup) - something which could easily be used as a "cameo" on a society / demo stand at an exhibition.

 

OK - it probably won't "see the light of day" - but I don't regard the underlying point as unreasonable.

 

Whilst on the subject of the APT, I don't know how many people noticed the programme narrator suggesting that colour / shade matching of paint on prototype models sometimes involves the use of a "Mk 1 eyeball". I could imagine some people thinking "yes, right". This actually struck me as credible (even if a few steps might not have been shown on the programme).

 

A few years ago, I was intrigued to notice a long, thin, box on a stand at a trade show. This box turned out to be a Farnsworth Munsell D15 colour vision test - which I was invited to try out.

 

I had no difficulty in quickly arranging all the coloured discs in the correct order - with no errors.

 

Whilst chatting with the guy manning the stand, I explained why I was so keen to do this test. I wasn't testing my own colour vision (which I already knew to be excellent). I was actually trying to see if the exhibition hall lighting affected the results of this colour vision test.

 

In case you're wondering why this company had a colour vision test on their stand, it was a reference to a line of business. They sell colour matched batches of plastics - and they employ people to do at least some of the colour matching by eye. OK - I suspect that machines are probably also used to some extent - but they certainly seem to find the "Mk 1 eyeball" rather useful in this regard.

 

Somehow, I suspect that we haven't seen the last of the Farnsworth Munsell discs - Shinobu Ishihara's colour dot patterns - or the City University's colour chameleon like rectangle patterns ... .

 

 

Huw.

 

[Geep7]

Regarding the programme being called Hornby: A Model World, I think we need to remember that, to the vast majority of the public outside of the hobby, model trains are Hornby. When i've had friends ask for advice about buying a train set for their kids, they're amazed when I tell them that there are a lot of other companies making model trains, other than Hornby. I guess to the wider public, Hornby is like what Hoover is for vacuum cleaners.

 

I'm just happy that we have model railway programmes on the TV. However, I just don't want people to know quite how much they are worth.... especially SWMBO . 

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, Geep7 said:

 Hornby is like what Hoover is for vacuum cleaners.

 

 

Not quite.

Hornby sell lots of model trains and is still a large part of the market.

Hoover is very much a generic name for a vacuum cleaner, very few these days actually being made by Hoover.

 

As in e.g. "I've just bought a Vax* hoover"

*insert brand of choice

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by melmerby

[Hroth]

6 hours ago, Huw Griffiths said:

Somehow, I suspect that we haven't seen the last of the Farnsworth Munsell discs - Shinobu Ishihara's colour dot patterns - or the City University's colour chameleon like rectangle patterns ... .

 

Interesting... 

 

Have you read Jasper Ffordes "Shades of Grey" (which has nothing to do with dodgy bedroom practices) ?  The plot revolves around Munsell discs and Ishihara colour dot patterns in a dystopian world.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shades_of_Grey

 

[Huw Griffiths]

12 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Have you read Jasper Ffordes "Shades of Grey" (which has nothing to do with dodgy bedroom practices) ?  The plot revolves around Munsell discs and Ishihara colour dot patterns in a dystopian world.

 

I'm afraid I haven't read this book - I actually hadn't heard of it.

 

The reason I mentioned this stuff is that, at one point, I considered optometry as a career - to be honest, I suspect I would probably have found it much more fulfilling than electrical engineering.

 

However, we both know how things worked out in practice.

 

 

Huw.

[Zero Gravitas]

1 hour ago, Huw Griffiths said:

 

I'm afraid I haven't read this book - I actually hadn't heard of it.

 

The reason I mentioned this stuff is that, at one point, I considered optometry as a career - to be honest, I suspect I would probably have found it much more fulfilling than electrical engineering.

 

However, we both know how things worked out in practice.

 

 

Huw.

 

I would heartily recommend any thing by Jasper Fforde. “Shades of Grey” is an excellent stand-alone novel (although there is due to be a sequel next year) - but I’d start with the Thursday Next series.

 

(just for context, my favourite authors are Terry Pratchett, Iain M. Banks and Jasper Fforde)

[Steamport Southport]

Fifty Sheds Of Grey is probably more apt to most on here....   

 

Look in charity shops, they probably have it for about 50p. I wouldn't pay much more. You can read it in about ten minutes.

 

A pastiche of the book, but not very rude (more Carry On style).

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fifty-Sheds-Grey-Erotica-not-too-modern/dp/0752265458

[newbryford]

Going OT.

I was once doing a demo of yellow stuff at a show (at around the time of the book) , when the local Mayoress was being shown round.

She seemed to take an interest in my stand of bright colours and asked about them.

I was explaining that yellow faded into many other shades, but there were only three shades of grey on the roofs though....

I think she "got it"

 

The club chairman's face was a picture........

 

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

Then again I'm pretty sure that Humbrol did a Fifty Shades Of Grey style advert.

 

Might have seen it in one of the plastic kit modelling magazines rather than a railway one.

 

Here it is.

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Steamport Southport

[MoonMonkey]

23 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Fifty Sheds Of Grey is probably more apt to most on here....   

 

Look in charity shops, they probably have it for about 50p. I wouldn't pay much more. You can read it in about ten minutes.

 

A pastiche of the book, but not very rude (more Carry On style).

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fifty-Sheds-Grey-Erotica-not-too-modern/dp/0752265458

I've got 50 sheds of grey in my back bog! 

There's a great line in there... something to the effect of:

"She bent over my workbench and said "Hurt me".

So I told her she had fat ankles and made a rubbish rhubarb crumble. 

 

[melmerby]

23 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Then again I'm pretty sure that Humbrol did a Fifty Shades Of Grey style advert.

 

Might have seen it in one of the plastic kit modelling magazines rather than a railway one.

 

Here it is.

 

Shouldn't the US ones be spelled "gray"?

The German ones are "grau", but #243, RLM 72 is just grun (green)!

[RJS1977]

On 09/11/2021 at 06:59, ruggedpeak said:

Hopefully they have added the "don't try this at home" warning to the web version!

 

 

No, they didn't. And, quite frankly it's the sort of thing that I don't think should be shown with or without a warning. What are the chances of a teenager (or even someone slightly older) thinking "If it goes that fast at 30V, how fast will it go at 240V"?

[RJS1977]

On 09/11/2021 at 15:49, Georgeconna said:

I would of expected given the amount of Spits they have produced over the years a Trip anywhere would not be been needed.

 

There's nothing like looking at the original though - otherwise you can fall into the trap of making a model of a model and reproducing errors.

 

Personally I think sending the staff out to view the prototype and get a feel for it is a good thing - especially if it's their first design. I often think it must be quite strange for the workers assembling locos etc in China whose chances of having seen the prototype (or anything vaguely resembling it) are pretty thin.

[RJS1977]

On 09/11/2021 at 23:05, Huw Griffiths said:

 

 

As for GMRC, I agree that it was flawed - however, I'd still like to see it brought back when the Corona menace is finally kicked into touch. GMRC could definitely be improved - but I'd still much prefer it to some of the garbage certain TV networks seem intent on ramming down our throats.

 

 

Huw.

 

Agreed, not least because I wasn't allowed to take part in the first series (I'd already recorded something for BBC and they wouldn't let me appear in anything else until it had - belatedly - aired) despite at least two teams inviting me to take part, and wasn't chosen for series 2.

 

I get some of the thinking behind the more 'wacky' ideas on GMRC - they don't want to be turning out the same thing each week - but Series 2 pushed it a bit too far IMO.

[Legend]

32 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Agreed, not least because I wasn't allowed to take part in the first series (I'd already recorded something for BBC and they wouldn't let me appear in anything else until it had - belatedly - aired) despite at least two teams inviting me to take part, and wasn't chosen for series 2.

 

I get some of the thinking behind the more 'wacky' ideas on GMRC - they don't want to be turning out the same thing each week - but Series 2 pushed it a bit too far IMO.

I’d argue that this latest program  Hornby:a model world reflects the hobby much more accurately  than GMRC did . As I’ve said I’m settling into this program and really enjoying seeing the various layouts Heaton Lodge etc . I’ve got over the initial disappointment as its really not  going to give you any insights into the really interesting decisions in Hornby ( James Mays program did this better) it’s really a PR platform for Hornby .However it is showing layouts outside Hornby and is much more typical of the hobby than Daleks, Dinosaurs and Martian Landscapes!   I know people say oh it’s telly and it needs to be entertaining to the general public but are we really saying that this hobby isn’t entertaining enough without resorting to these gimmicks? The other thing GMRC introduced was false jeopardy of doing something by a timeline . Aside from making a layout for an exhibition surely one of the major points of our hobby is the relaxation aspect . Hours can go past and it’s enjoyable , this was completely missing from GMRC . Overall I’d say this program is much more representative of the hobby as a whole . I hope people are enjoying it . 

[Huw Griffiths]

2 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

I wasn't allowed to take part in the first series (I'd already recorded something for BBC and they wouldn't let me appear in anything else until it had - belatedly - aired) despite at least two teams inviting me to take part, and wasn't chosen for series 2.

 

I get some of the thinking behind the more 'wacky' ideas on GMRC - they don't want to be turning out the same thing each week - but Series 2 pushed it a bit too far IMO.

 

Similar - and slightly different - in my case.

 

I was initially a "reserve" for one team in the first series - then one team member had to drop out for family reasons - so I was now in this team. Unfortunately, at this point, my father's health took a nosedive - and my mother (having previously actively encouraged me to get involved) instantly announced that I was going to bail out. I'm not saying that I disagree with her decision - but it was clearly somewhat frustrating, to say the least.

 

(As I've mentioned elsewhere on this site, both my parents' health is no longer an issue - but I digress.)

 

In practice, I suspect that the team were probably better off without me - mainly because someone else (who did appear in the team that took part) has modelling interests so similar that there could easily have been conflict over who did what.

 

(Just for the record, I'm deliberately not making any claims about the standard of my model making.)

 

If this series were to return, there'd no longer be conflicting calls on my time - but I'd obviously jump at the chance to experiment with different model railway stuff on someone else's "coin" (especially if I were to find myself in a team completely from my "part of the world"). Of course, whether anything like this were ever to happen is outside my control.

 

I agree about the "left field" stuff in GMRC. Certainly, they'd be keen to encourage people to use their imagination about what to model and what to use when modelling it.

 

After all, I don't see anything inherently "off" about a lot of layout themes (also I was born - and have spent most of my life so far - in former GWR territory) - but, at one time, there did seem to be rather a lot of GWR "BLT" themed layouts "doing the rounds" of shows and magazines.

 

Meanwhile, whenever I've visited model railway shows (remember them?), I've particularly enjoyed visiting the demonstrators - seeing what they're building, how they're building it and what they're using. I suspect that the programme makers were trying to introduce this element into GMRC - even if some of us found certain themes (and some of the "materials" teams were expected to use) rather too "left field" for our liking.

 

In all honesty, I struggle to imagine how they came up with certain themes etc - I could certainly imagine these inducing dissent amongst a number of teams. Probably the best that could be said about some of these is that they would have been the same for all the teams.

 

Saying that, I'd still like to see further series of GMRC commissioned - whether or not I get the chance to be involved.

 

If a FTA channel were to put this on (even repeats) opposite the "soaps" or "Strictly ZZZZZZ List Celebrities Go Prancing On Ice" - put repeats and "extras" programmes on Sunday afternoons - screen these the same time every week - and perhaps also do repeats on bank holidays when there's traditionally nothing worth watching - I strongly suspect they'd get rather more viewers than they seem to imagine.

 

Clearly though, I know a lot less about this stuff than the people who decide what I "wish" to see on TV. After all, I merely get to watch the stuff - and pay for a TV licence ... .

 

 

Huw.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Huw Griffiths