Diesels under the wires in France?

[JeffP]

Some recent YouTube videos have shown services from Lyon Sibelin to both Rognac and Dijon Perrigny being hauled  both out and back by a 4000 series diesel.

Are French railways short of electrics, because there's a few out of use at Rouen?

Or is it a feature of privatisation, where the people running said service have diesels but no electrics?

 

On another note, watching the railcam at Lyon Perrache, there seem to be lots of freights running with an electric coupled to a diesel.

I assume this is to avoid loco changes? Or just to relocate a loco.

 

Thirdly, does anyone know why there seem to be regular workings in some areas of up to six locos running light?

 

Thanks for any info.

[Fat Controller]

Question 1:- who was the train operator on the diesel-hauled services? If it was Europorte or VFLI, then it could be they haven't enough electrics.

Question 2:- Some of the diesel/ electric pairs might be to have a diesel for 'last-mile' working, others might be transferring a loco d-i-t, without taking up a driver and a path.

Question 3:- 'Trains de machines' have been common for a decade or two, 'repatriating' locos to their home depots. The locos themselves will come from unbalanced workings, weekend engineering works etc.

[JeffP]

The operator was Europorte as you surmised.

Thanks for the explanations.

 

I wonder why UK operators don't make use of electric/diesel combinations?

[Gordonwis]

France is just as bad as the UK for diesels under the wires, especially since liberalisation. It's nothing to do with 'shortages of traction', just the way things work in the 'open access' era. 

 

With travel abroad limited, I've done a bit more UK freight photography  the last 2 years, so I am completely used to seeing only diesels on a huge proportion of the freight that runs hundreds of miles on electrified lines on the West Coast Main line (for example). So much so that on the way back from the International N gauge show the other week I was completely taken by surprise by a freight train near Northampton turned up with a Class 88 and was actually humming not growling along! One of the worst examples of 'unnecessary' use of diesels is the fact that the  Evian/Volvic (ie Danone waters)  train from the Channel Tunnel to Daventry used to be a class 92 but in recent years has been a Class 66.  (the Dollands Moor - Scunthorpe isn't much better...)

 

On point 2: French railways practice for +/- a century has been to move spare locos around 'en véhicule' (English railway parlance = dead in tow  (d.i.t.)

 

and similarly the  'Train de Machines' is a legendary aspect of French railway practice. I have seen many of these over the years. There was a famous example running to Nevers shed - much loved of the regular photographers - which I saw once when it was about 7 locos, all different classes!

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Gordonwis

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, JeffP said:

The operator was Europorte as you surmised.

Thanks for the explanations.

 

I wonder why UK operators don't make use of electric/diesel combinations?

 

A few UK freight companies don't have any electric locos and from an accounting point of view with the UK OLE network being small and full of gaps in terms of diversionary routes buying diesels works out as a more productive use for the capital.

 

For those freight companies that do have electric traction - the relatively high electricity costs charged by NR (which are out of the control of the freight companies as opposed to diesel fuel costs where they can take advantage of all sorts of weird hedging schemes and suchlike) plus the need to keep drivers traction knowledge up etc means electric traction is seen as burdens that adversely affect the finances.

 

The only reason electric locos are still used on freight these days is basically down to a lack of paths on the likes of the WCML where the fast acceleration and hill climbing abilities of electric traction is needed to fit between passenger operations and the use of diesels would significantly reduce the amount of freight that could be moved.

 

Only once the UK gets its act together and ends up with a large OLE network (including the MML, the XC axis, Nuneaton - Felixstowe, a couple of trans Pennie routes, etc does thje widespread use of electric locos on freight make economic sense.

[Gordonwis]

As PhilB points out, it is politico-economic more than anything, however, even in 'panacea all electrified' Switzerland, a good number of freight movements that were once electric hauled are now hauled by Am843 diesels

[jamie92208]

My trainspotting  has been relatively  limited for thevlast two years and mainly on the Bordeaux to Tours line. Europorte freights seem to be be split between class 186 electrics and E4000 diesels.  Many of the grain trains around Poitiers are diesel hauled on the branches to the dilos then change to a Sybic or27000 for the line haul. Often to La Rochelle which is wired into the port.  

 

Infra workingsvoften have 1 or 2 diesels dead in train with a 22XXX on the front. 

 

I often used to see trains of locos on the Cote d'Azur linevon a Sunday. Possibly taking the oustationed shunters for fuelling.

 

Jamie

[njee20]

On 28/09/2021 at 23:16, JeffP said:

The operator was Europorte as you surmised.

Thanks for the explanations.

 

I wonder why UK operators don't make use of electric/diesel combinations?

Without wishing to derail a thread on French railways, we do, or rather GBRf regularly do. Sticking a 66 in with a 92-hauled train. 
 

https://flic.kr/p/VCA5hK

[Gordonwis]

Saw loads last week in east-central France, for example:

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Gordonwis

[Gordonwis]

By the way I think all the metal van wagons trains are mineral water, the Italian ones carrying San Pellegrino I understand

[JeffP]

5 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

By the way I think all the metal van wagons trains are mineral water, the Italian ones carrying San Pellegrino I understand

I hope they've some of the pop containing NO artificial sweeteners on board.

I'm finding it increasingly hard to source.