Mk3 coach gangways - original colours.

[tiger]

Hi all

 

I'm trying to work out the original colour of the folding gangway doors of Mk3 HST stock and Mk3a hauled coaches.

 

The obvious answer to this question is "yellow" but I don't think this applied to all coaches. I'm pretty certain that all of the Mk3 HST stock and Mk3a hauled stock first and second class vehicles had yellow gangway doors - ie coach types TS, TF, FO and TSO. I'm also pretty certain that the gangway doors of Mk3a Sleepers were originally light orange (lighter than the dark orange of Mk2d gangway doors).

 

What about the TGS (guard's accommodation/van end) and catering vehicles? I think that the TGS may have had light grey gangway doors and that catering vehicles were orange (Mk2d style) at the kitchen/buffet end but can't find any good pictures online of these vehicles in original condition. I'm 99% sure that the TRSB and TRUB/TRFB types had orange coloured two part sliding doors, rather than the fold-back type of the passenger saloons. What about the kitchen end of a TRUK - which didn't have a buffet counter and therefore wouldn't have needed the 70's orange bar "ambience"?

 

To add to the confusion the gangway bellows themselves changed over the years during production of Mk3 coaches. Originally these were light grey foam on the prototype, like this.

 

Production Mk3a coaches had a black foam gangway. These were all eventually replaced by gangway bellows like those on HST stock following a fire at Cadder in 1983. The standard HST gangway is shown in this picture (note the experimental BT35 bogies). The HST style gangways were yellow on the inside, whereas the foam type were grey or black. Did any of the Mk 3a coaches, or HST trailers receive the grey foam type gangway as per the prototype (and as originally modeled by Jouef on their OO model.) As a supplementary question, what colour was the inside of the gangway bellows on HST TGS coaches, and on the kitchen end of the catering vehicles? Yellow as per a standard Mk3 gangway bellows, or grey / orange to match the gangway doors?

 

Any photos or answers gratefully received! Sorry for the esoteric nature of the questions... I will also cross-post this to Robert Carroll's groups.io BR Coaching Stock group.

Cheers

Tom.

Edited October 2, 2021 by tiger
Clarification of question.

[rodent279]

Following with interest. I have nothing to add, other than that in my head, catering stock had red gangway doors. (But that might just be in my head......)

[keefer]

IIRC the Mk3 gangway doors were a simple design, with 2 half-doors which rotated back flush against the end walls when opened.

It was the type used on the Mk2s which folded in the middle of each half-door (similar to folding bus doors) again sitting flush against the end wall. If you look at pics of the gangway doors from the outside, you can see the line down the middle of each half-door, whereas on the Mk3 there are just two solid half-doors.

Colour-wise, I think I've only ever seen red gangway paneling in the buffet/kitchen end of the catering cars, the seating ends of these along with the FO/TSO/TGS had yellow panelling.

[Commoner]

As far as I recall the gangways of all HST production trailers were yellow.  Attached is a shot of the end gangway of a WR stabled at St Philips Marsh on 03.03.79.  Apologies for the filthy slide and general poor quality.  I also took a shot from the other end, which also shows the gangway doors as yellow.

 

 

I have also included a shot of 40011 new at Derby on 14.08.76 also showing yellow gangway doors.

 

A later shot of buffet counter end of E40340 from 1984 is found here

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Commoner

[tiger]

Thanks for the pics @Commoner. I totally agree that the saloon end gangway doors of catering vehicles were yellow.

 

It's hard to tell from the attached TRUB pics about the gangway doors, as they are in the open position, but it does suggest that the gangway bellows were yellow on the inside at the buffet / kitchen end. My memory is that the gangway doors were orange like the vestibule and buffet counter area - with a yellow gangway interior. If someone could come up with a pristine as-new shot of the buffet / kitchen end, like your shot of 40011, that would solve the problem!

 

In my own photos I have a shot of a TGS from the van end, but the gangway doors are open and in shade. There is a hint of yellow which I'd guess is the inside of the gangway rather than the doors. Interestingly it's one of the TGS which were fitted with buffers for use with Class 91 locomotives in 1989. Shot taken at Edinburgh Waverley on 23 August 1992 during a power car swap on a Kings Cross-Aberdeen working:

 

 

Thanks again for the pics. If anyone else has any new or ex-works pics of the van end of a TGS, or the buffet kitchen end of a catering vehicle, that would be great.

Cheers

 

Tom.

 

 

14 hours ago, Commoner said:

As far as I recall the gangways of all HST production trailers were yellow.  Attached is a shot of the end gangway of a WR stabled at St Philips Marsh on 03.03.79.  Apologies for the filthy slide and general poor quality.  I also took a shot from the other end, which also shows the gangway doors as yellow.

 

 

I have also included a shot of 40011 new at Derby on 14.08.76 also showing yellow gangway doors.

 

A later shot of buffet counter end of E40340 from 1984 is found here

 

 

 

[Commoner]

Don't know if this helps but this is the end of the same TRUB parked at S.P.Marsh next to 43055. Apologies for the filthy state of the transparency - it's come from the "rejects" box.