RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted October 3, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) I'm putting together a list of the mainly diesel prototypes that were around just before and at the beginning of the British Railways era (1948 onwards). I'm sure I'm missing some, so any additions welcome. I will add known manufacturers of OO / 4mm versions at some point. I haven't added the various shunters that were precursors to the 08, but I can do for completeness if necessary. Locomotives: ----- Prototype External Designs: Diesels: 10000 & 10001 (Ex LMS) 10201 / 10202 / 10203 (Bulleid) DP1 (Deltic) DP2 (not counted as a test bed as its body, though similar to a Deltic, isn't actually the same and wasn't reused from a previous Deltic) Lion Falcon Kestrel 10800 'Hawk' 11001 10100 The Fell (? is this a prototype ?) 41001 / 41002 (HST Power Cars) DHP1 Electrics: 89 001 Gas Turbines: 18000 18100 GT3 ----- Test Beds (that is, a re-used body with different internals): Diesels: 47 601 / 47 901 Electrics: E1000 / E2001 (ex 18100) 87 101 ----- Shunters: (to be completed) ===== Units: Diesels: Lev 1 / 2 / 3 RB004 140 151 210 Electrics: 20001 / 20002 / 20003 (Bulleid/Raworth) 2 PEP (446) 4 PEP (445) 4DD Gas Turbines: APT-E Edited October 4, 2021 by Ian J. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 DHP1 - the Clayton diesel hydraulic type 3? It didn't get out much mind. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
berwicksfinest Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 Lev 1 - 3 Class 140 Class 151 ?? Prototypes for pacer/sprinters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 4-PEP and 2-PEP Class 210 DEMU Arguably, the 4-DD sets 87 101 This could become a bit of a unicorn hunt though, in that all sorts of prototype/experimental things were created to test ideas at various stages, either as new-builds or conversions of existing things, and there is a very fuzzy line between manufacturers' demonstrators intended to drum-up sales (which is really what DELTIC was) and prototypes. 10800 was a prototype twice, for two completely different things! The pre-08 EE350hp shunters were, for the most part, not prototypes but earlier series-built versions of the breed, and where one draws the line with the smaller shunters goodness only knows. Most of them were BR-ised versions of designs already proven in industrial use, but a few were basically manufactuer's demonstrators of new designs/concepts that were foisted upon BR in the hope that would help domestic and overseas sales. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) There was the Bulleid diesel mechanical 0-6-0 thing, whatever that counts as. (Edit: 11001, which you already have) Edited October 3, 2021 by Zomboid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted October 3, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2021 I suppose the three bullied/Raworth electic locos could also be classed as prototypes along with Tommy and stretching it a bit NER 13 2C2 electric loco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessy1692 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 Along that fuzzy line you have D1702-06 the short lived 'class 48's' Do they count as prototypes or a very short lived class experiment? Also the uprated class 31 at 2000hp for a time, lots of things to consider. Cheers James Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted October 3, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 3, 2021 For my part, anything that was a 'test bed' doesn't count. Class 48s, 47601, 47901, 87101, etc, not counted, they weren't their own designs as they were based on other platforms that either became or already were existing classes. I was thinking of any non-steam locomotive (and that can include DMUs / EMUs) that was a one-off in the British Railways era, or part of a very small definitely experimental class. So not the initial Peaks, the D6xx Warships, the 4DDs (I think), etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 11 minutes ago, Ian J. said: they weren't their own designs as they were based on other platforms that either became or already were existing classes. And, therein lies your defintional problem, because what you are saying seems to boil down to "if its the same shape on the outsiide as a previous design" it isn't or can't be a prototype, whereas from an engineering standpoint what it looks like on the outside really doesnt matter a great deal, its what makes it work that matters, and taking 87101 as an example, that was internally very significantly different from the predecessor 87s: it was absolutely and definitely a prototype for a new generation. Has the class 89 loco been mentioned yet? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 I note APT-E made it onto the initial list - but not APT-P ,,,, Prototype by definition ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) What about 71000 ? Prototype for Standard Class 8 which was never built. And weren't most of the DRBs effectively prototypes? They did enter service, but then so did LMS 10000 Edited October 3, 2021 by Michael Hodgson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 5 hours ago, Titan said: DHP1 - the Clayton diesel hydraulic type 3? It didn't get out much mind. Already announced by KRM. CJI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 Hi Ian, There were two EECo 500hp 35mph shunting trip locomotives D0226 and D0227 built for test at Stratford. https://british-shunters.fandom.com/wiki/D0226_and_D0227 Gibbo. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 (edited) wrong! Edited October 3, 2021 by jcm@gwr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 10800 was named Hawk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 Eventually. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 5 hours ago, russ p said: I suppose the three bullied/Raworth electic locos could also be classed as prototypes Another fuzzy line thing that, because they incorporated a lot of novel design, and bugs were knocked-out of both the mechanical and electrical designs as they went along, but they weren't (and possibly weren't intended) as the rototypes of a larger series. Maybe if the SR had continued in existence, and electrification had progressed at the rollicking rate they planned, a series might have followed, to haul boat trains and fitted goods from the Kent Coast - we shall never know! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted October 3, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Nearholmer said: And, therein lies your defintional problem, because what you are saying seems to boil down to "if its the same shape on the outsiide as a previous design" it isn't or can't be a prototype, whereas from an engineering standpoint what it looks like on the outside really doesnt matter a great deal, its what makes it work that matters, and taking 87101 as an example, that was internally very significantly different from the predecessor 87s: it was absolutely and definitely a prototype for a new generation. Has the class 89 loco been mentioned yet? Valid point re the internals. I still see them as 'test beds' rather than 'prototypes' though, being that they were based on previously existing platforms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted October 3, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said: What about 71000 ? Prototype for Standard Class 8 which was never built. And weren't most of the DRBs effectively prototypes? They did enter service, but then so did LMS 10000 I'm not counting steam locomotives for this, just the non-steam prototypes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted October 3, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: Another fuzzy line thing that, because they incorporated a lot of novel design, and bugs were knocked-out of both the mechanical and electrical designs as they went along, but they weren't (and possibly weren't intended) as the rototypes of a larger series. Maybe if the SR had continued in existence, and electrification had progressed at the rollicking rate they planned, a series might have followed, to haul boat trains and fitted goods from the Kent Coast - we shall never know! I know visually the third was was different to the first two but were they the same engineering wise? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 From memory, I think the basic circuitry was the same, but I have a feeling that some of the components had slightly different ratings; mechanically I think they were essentially the same, but evolved a bit. There might have been differences in train heating boiler too. My copy of the very good 'Southern Way' special edition about them is deeply buried, so I can't check quickly. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted October 3, 2021 Share Posted October 3, 2021 52 minutes ago, Ian J. said: Valid point re the internals. I still see them as 'test beds' rather than 'prototypes' though, being that they were based on previously existing platforms. So presumably DP2 was just a "test bed" as it was based upon a previously existing platform... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium zarniwhoop Posted October 3, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 3, 2021 6 hours ago, Ian J. said: I was thinking of any non-steam locomotive (and that can include DMUs / EMUs) that was a one-off in the British Railways era, or part of a very small definitely experimental class. So not the initial Peaks, the D6xx Warships, the 4DDs (I think), etc. 4DD - a class of two, I would have thought they definitely were a failed experiment (limited route availability because of loading gauge, took too long at stations). Of course, if an experiment succeeded then it often generated modified production versions (10201-3 -> Peaks). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted October 4, 2021 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2021 I can see there's a need to be more detailed with this subject to get better categorisation, so when I'm done with work today I'll revisit the original post and split out the 'designed' and 'test bed' items, and also create sections for locos, units, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike_Walker Posted October 4, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 4, 2021 9 hours ago, zarniwhoop said: 4DD - a class of two, I would have thought they definitely were a failed experiment (limited route availability because of loading gauge, took too long at stations). Of course, if an experiment succeeded then it often generated modified production versions (10201-3 -> Peaks). 10201-3, and 10203 in particular, were very much the prototypes for and developed into the EE Type 4 Class 40s not the Peaks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now