Hornby Elite a Worthy Upgrade?

[Nigelcliffe]

15 minutes ago, JST said:

I am a tad mystified by the Elite bashing that goes on on this forum. I have an Elite running the locos and an eLink running the accessory bus (both4 amp supply) and the whole thing is run by Railmaster Pro. My layout has about 40 locos and 60 sets of points and has been working swimmingly ever since I set it up. ..........

 

In my case experience taught me it was poor.  Experience of a slightly smaller layout than yours that I used to help with (owner has since sold it, and take up different hobbies).   Operating sound locos was a pain-in-backside from excessive button presses,  the centre-off speed controls were counter-intuitive on a circular layout (half the time the loco goes left when knob turned right).   

Operating accessories through the Elite was awful due to the way the buffer from Elite to computer didn't report itself as full.  Consequence, multi-aspect colour light signals which required several accessory instructions to change didn't work properly as the Elite would "forget" commands randomly sent by the computer.  The only fix I found was to delay between commands, so the signal would be "green" then "dark for a while" then "yellow", then pause a bit, then "second yellow appears".   Which was awful.   So bad that we had to put a second DCC system (a Sprog) in place to run the signals alongside everything else (new system was fine with the signals, they'd change to any commanded aspect as near instantly as the eye could perceive).    

 

7 minutes ago, Someone said:

What i mean is system which is pretty powerful and can do some pretty advanced stuff like automation, i like the Roco Z21 for this reason, that but also because although a laptop can be used, its not required for operation, i currently have a DCC++ system buts its irritating because i constantly have to plug in a bulky laptop during operation, and i only did dcc++ as an emergency Controller because my elink that came with a starter set broke. 

 

My only concern with the Z21 is that i won't withstand being powered off and on in between running sessions. 

 

 

How will you do "some automation" with the turnouts controlled by Kato levers outside of the system's knowledge ?    You really need to think this stuff through.

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

 

[pheaton]

Someone...i think you have had by far the best advice so far from @Nigelcliffe and @ITG

 

the other posts show that one mans chalk is another mans cheese, IMO when the elite came out at its original price point, you were getting a lot of controller for your money, in terms of its capabilities and its power supply, and on that front it blew the dynamis out the water. I did own an elite for a long time....never had an issue with it, but i will fully agree the interface isnt the best, this can be remedied somewhat with the Hornby PC offering but thats just adding the cost to a controller for an issue which might be resolved out of the box by some of the controllers specified.

 

if i went back in time...would i buy an elite again...yes i would...but only at its launch price...Hornby jacking the price up considerably put the elite out of favour with controllers with a better interface...but in some cases inferior capabilties.

 

I replaced my elite with an ECoS, and an ECoS mobile.

Edited October 7, 2021 by pheaton

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

In my case experience taught me it was poor.  Experience of a slightly smaller layout than yours that I used to help with (owner has since sold it, and take up different hobbies).   Operating sound locos was a pain-in-backside from excessive button presses,  the centre-off speed controls were counter-intuitive on a circular layout (half the time the loco goes left when knob turned right).   

Operating accessories through the Elite was awful due to the way the buffer from Elite to computer didn't report itself as full.  Consequence, multi-aspect colour light signals which required several accessory instructions to change didn't work properly as the Elite would "forget" commands randomly sent by the computer.  The only fix I found was to delay between commands, so the signal would be "green" then "dark for a while" then "yellow", then pause a bit, then "second yellow appears".   Which was awful.   So bad that we had to put a second DCC system (a Sprog) in place to run the signals alongside everything else (new system was fine with the signals, they'd change to any commanded aspect as near instantly as the eye could perceive).    

 

 

How will you do "some automation" with the turnouts controlled by Kato levers outside of the system's knowledge ?    You really need to think this stuff through.

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

 

The train automation i plan on doing and just setting all the points myself, an experience of a friend shows me not to bother with point automation, i just plan on automating train movements and Layout lights. 

Doing a bit of research my choice seems to be an ECoS, a Digitrax zephyr, and a roco Z21

Edited October 7, 2021 by Guest

[RAF96]

Quote

the centre-off speed controls were counter-intuitive on a circular layout (half the time the loco goes left when knob turned right).   

 

The Elite uses rate dependant rotary encoders which have no centre off, they spin either way endlessly. The faster you turn it the more throttle you get. Direction is controlled by clicking the knob.

[Nigelcliffe]

34 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

 

The Elite uses rate dependant rotary encoders which have no centre off, they spin either way endlessly. The faster you turn it the more throttle you get. Direction is controlled by clicking the knob.

OK, yes,  I remember (it was a lot of years ago).   Its the arrow indicators which illuminate which were confusing - arrow right, loco goes left.   

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

[WIMorrison]

3 hours ago, Someone said:

The train automation i plan on doing and just setting all the points myself, an experience of a friend shows me not to bother with point automation, i just plan on automating train movements and Layout lights. 

Doing a bit of research my choice seems to be an ECoS, a Digitrax zephyr, and a roco Z21

 

I humbly suggest that the experience of your friend is either woefully out of date, simply plain wrong and possibly (probably) both. You will not get proper automation without having the software operating the turnouts for you.

 

Turnout automation is extremely simple, cost-effective and as you intend to have a large layout also operationally effective. If you choose to operate them manually to run any form of automation you will firstly need to operate the turnout, then you will need to tell the automation software that you have changed the turnouts and repeat this exercise every time you want to move anything on your layout. Setting up correctly for automation will mean that the software always ensures that the correct turnouts are set for the route the train is intending to take at the time when the train needs the turnouts set., the same software will also release the turnouts for other train to use them once the train has traversed the turnout.

 

I am fairly experienced in train automation and cannot recall anyone even discussing what you propose, which I dare to suggest would be worse than having no automation whatsoever and running everything manually.

 

My advice - think again about the 'advice' that you have been given.

 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

 

I humbly suggest that the experience of your friend is either woefully out of date, simply plain wrong and possibly (probably) both. You will not get proper automation without having the software operating the turnouts for you.

 

Turnout automation is extremely simple, cost-effective and as you intend to have a large layout also operationally effective. If you choose to operate them manually to run any form of automation you will firstly need to operate the turnout, then you will need to tell the automation software that you have changed the turnouts and repeat this exercise every time you want to move anything on your layout. Setting up correctly for automation will mean that the software always ensures that the correct turnouts are set for the route the train is intending to take at the time when the train needs the turnouts set., the same software will also release the turnouts for other train to use them once the train has traversed the turnout.

 

I am fairly experienced in train automation and cannot recall anyone even discussing what you propose, which I dare to suggest would be worse than having no automation whatsoever and running everything manually.

 

My advice - think again about the 'advice' that you have been given.

 

I know, but i accept this advice, simply because i dont have that many points so my trains will go on the same loop all the time, if not then i use manual control for the yards and stuff. 

 

I doubt it would work for layout with many points. 

[AY Mod]

I have now had to unhide this topic twice. Please do not hide a topic that other users are replying to.

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, Someone said:

I know, but i accept this advice, simply because i dont have that many points so my trains will go on the same loop all the time, if not then i use manual control for the yards and stuff. 

 

I doubt it would work for layout with many points. 

I think if you want to automate the train movement then you have to also automate the point control, otherwise the automation could go badly awry if a train set off on it's automated path but the path it has been given by the manually thrown points is not the expected route - in simplest terms collisions.

 

Automation of trains and points need to be in harmony with each other.

[KingEdwardII]

Automation requires a good connection between the computer running the automation software and the DCC controller. The connection(s) available with the controller are an important consideration in choosing an appropriate controller.

 

Yours,  Mike.

[Ron Ron Ron]

10 hours ago, pheaton said:

......if i went back in time...would i buy an elite again...yes i would...but only at its launch price...Hornby jacking the price up considerably put the elite out of favour.....

 

The m.r.p. is now £297 !!!!

.......BUT....unless there's some old stock on a dusty shelf somewhere, you can't buy one, as they've been out of stock for what must be over a year, maybe 18 months ...and some dealers are saying availability in 2022.

 

 

The Hornby website is still showing availability of the e-Link+Railmaster.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression they were ditching this product from their line up?

 

 

.

 

.

[pheaton]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

The m.r.p. is now £297 !!!!

.......BUT....unless there's some old stock on a dusty shelf somewhere, you can't buy one, as they've been out of stock for what must be over a year, maybe 18 months ...and some dealers are saying availability in 2022.

 

 

The Hornby website is still showing availability of the e-Link+Railmaster.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression they were ditching this product from their line up?

 

 

.

 

.

Im sure at the time the release price was somewhere more palatable, seem to recall the 140 mark....which at the time...a controller with similar capabilties...eg 4amps + 1amp aux output and full cv capability was a lot more expensive...so at the time it was a lot of controller for the money...

[smokebox]

I paid £100 for my Elite shortly after it was launched.  It has served me well over the years but I'm not sure that I'd buy one now.

[SamThomas]

On 07/10/2021 at 07:50, Nigelcliffe said:

 how the latching/non-latching works on the device. 

During the function setup process you select either ;

Push/Touch to turn on - Push/Touch again to turn off or

Push/Touch & hold for as long as you want the function on or

You can set for a timed period with one Push/Touch.

 

I'm certain that the limit of "vehicles" is 100 in the stack using a tablet/phone/WHY with the Z21 (Black)

Not too sure about the Wireless Multimaus but I think it's around 40 (anyone else confirm/correct please ?)

[RAF96]

On 07/10/2021 at 12:08, Nigelcliffe said:

OK, yes,  I remember (it was a lot of years ago).   Its the arrow indicators which illuminate which were confusing - arrow right, loco goes left.   

- Nigel

 

That also can be reversed in set up. The manual speaks to UK convention of loco travel, i.e. forwards is right to left as seen in most stations where the train approaches from the passengers’ right.

Edited October 12, 2021 by RAF96