Roco Z21 - DCC not a clue

[Moonraking Red]

I have been asked to help dispose of the model railway element of a late friend’s estate. The layout has been dismantled, so I have a load of boxes.

 

I have absolutely no working knowledge of DCC systems. 

 

My problem is 9 x DCC locomotives (mixture of Bachmann and Hornby - some sound-fitted). I have not found any details of loco addresses. I need to test the locos before offering them for sale.

 

The controller is a Roco Z21 Start ref. 18825-MMS. The test track is a length of Peco Streamline.

 

My first move was to connect the Z21 and use the MultiMaus handset. Got a blue indicator light on the Z21.
Two locos to test - Bachmann Jinty (factory fitted sound), Class 40 (sound fitted by Hattons). 

Tried both on DC. The Jinty moved ok with chuffing sound, Class 40 dead as a dodo.

 

On DCC, where to start? Attached my two wires. Tried to use various addresses, but no success. Struggling to understand the instruction manual for the handset.

 
Need an idiot’s step-by-step guide or point me at a blog, or YouTube please.

 

 

[6029 King Stephen]

I have the Roco Z21 and experienced the same problems as you.  I watched a YouTube video about how to set it up.  Set up the black box and connect that to its power supply.  Put the white router box on top of the black box and connect that to its power supply.  There is a grey cable that connects from the black box to the router box.  Connect the cable into one of the yellow ports on the back of the router.  Turn on the mains power and your black box will be flashing red.  Press the button on the front of the black box and it should turn blue once it has connected to the router.

 

i use an Apple iPhone and an Apple iPad to control my locos.  The first thing to do is on your device, go to settings and select Wi-Fi and select the Z21 network.  When prompted for the credentials for connecting, you will find these on the underside of your router.  Once it has connected, go to the App Store and search for Z21 and install the black app and the Z21 updated app.  Once installed on your phone, you can then go into the menus and add the locos that you have, entering the address using a four-digit address (I use the last 4 numbers of the running number), take a picture of locos etc.  You can then start operating locos.  To use another device to control locos, you just export/import your layout to/from the device that you set everything up on.  You have to download the apps onto each device that you are using.  Don’t forget to use some wire to connect from either the main track or programme track on the back of the black box to your track.

 

When I bought my Z21 in March 2021, it cost me £322 - just in case you want to sell that too and wanted to know how they cost new.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

Edited October 6, 2021 by 6029 King Stephen

[Moonraking Red]

Thanks, Steve. Fingers-crossed!

[CFL]

Take the easy route set, up the z21 or Z21 as above then for the class 40 request from your setup device (smartphone, tablet etc) the identity of the loco and you should get the address and take it from there.

It is advisable - especially on early sound chips - not to do a clean wipe (usually CV8=8) as this could possibly wipe the sound file leaving only the loco file.

Ian

Edited October 9, 2021 by CFL
repeat of previous finger crossing!

[Moonraking Red]

So my iPad shows the router as connected, but when I go into the Z21 app it shows a ‘play’? button (which brings up a ribbon of 12 x continental locos). Six options - Vehicles, Control Station, CV Programming, Driver Cabs, Layouts, Settings - surround the ‘play’ button.

In Settings I used the Updater app, which now says the firmware is up to date.

If I look into CV Programming option, it says no connection to Z21 on any of the three choices across the top of the screen.

 

No progress sadly.

[Moonraking Red]

Just one other point, the Z21 is the white boxed Start version. I am using the Z21 app, not Z21 Mobile or Mobile HD, does this make any difference?
 

My iPad is a 2019 model.

[mikeg]

The white box is the z21 and I think that the Z21 app is different, I seem to remember that it works slightly differently as I downloaded the z21 and my Z21 would not work. I was given the ROCO internet page by an RMweb member at the time but don’t have a record, I think that someone should be able to help now that you have given the details!

 

regards mike 

[Moonraking Red]

Thanks, still got my fingers crossed that RmWebbers will provide the answers.

 

When the iPad auto-detects the router it shows an IP address 192.168.0.100. In the Settings  tab I input this address and tried to reconnect to the Z21, but no joy.

 

The router has 3 green lights - power, WiFi, input 1.

 

I’m off to look for the Roco internet page. A couple of YouTube videos I have viewed did not have the “No connection to Z21” problem.

[SamThomas]

I use the Z21 Black - I'm not too certain if the App is different for the z21 White, but I suspect it may be.

 

I'm pretty certain that the x21 White does not have a separate programming track but as long as you only have 1 locomotive on the track at a time you should be OK.

 

You may need to reset the z21 to communicate with the router - press & hold the button on the front until it starts to flash purple.

 

Also, you need a physical network cable between the router & the z21.

 

I would download the manual from Roco & double check everything you have done so far,

 

The European loco motives already showing are what the unit comes with ex : factory.

Edited October 11, 2021 by SamThomas
error in text

[TPC]

Factory IP address for a z/Z21 is 192.168.0.111.  On the app you need to have the same IP address as the z21 (setting/Z21 settings/ IP address).  Once connected the little bar at the top right of the screen will flash (standby)  or be solid (power on) blue.  If you want to reset it to factory specs keep the power button in for 5 seconds (if owner change the IP address).  It will then flash purple to indicate it has reset.  Use either Z21 app or the Z21 Maintenance tool (PC).

https://www.z21.eu/en

[WIMorrison]

If you have a z21 Start then it will probably need the network port unlocking to use the app with wifi. You can use the network port to update the firmware without the unlock code, but not a lot else.

 

z21start unlock code - Products - Roco z21

 

You do not need to buy the Roco router, but if you use your own you will need to set the LAN IP Range to 192.168.0.0 and use the address 19.168.0.111 for the z21. You can change this later, however initially you must use these settings.

[Moonraking Red]

Rewinding the saga, I have previously seen the z21 start unit in use with the 10814 router via an iPad, but which I don’t have access to at present.
 

So I set up my own iPad using the Z21 app (the latest black version, not z21 mobile). Used the Updater to ensure lates version of firmware.

 

On the z21, reset the unit by holding the start button until the indicator changes from blue to purple. This should reset the IP address to 192.168.0.111. (Yes?).

 

On the iPad WiFi set for the TP-Link router with the IPV4 details showing IP 192.168.0.100, subset 255.255.255.0, router 192.168.0.1

The indicator light on the z21 is steady blue. Router lights showing three green as noted in a previous post.

 

On the settings page of the app, Z21 connection shows IP 192.168.0.111 Pressing the Reconnect to Z21 button appears not to work.

 

Switching everything off for ten minutes has no effect. In CV programming tab, the message No connection to Z21. No tick or light in the top corner of the main app page.

 

Checked power to track by shorting out across the rails, then pressed the button on the front of the Z21 to reset unit.

 

Now waving white flag!!! Not sure how I overcome the “No connection to Z21”

message. The only thing I haven’t done is install one of the older versions of the app.

 

[WIMorrison]

Read my message immediately before you posted this one - that has your answer

 

[jpendle]

Hi,

 

As Iain says you might need an unlock code to use the app with the router, but as you say you have seen the system in use with an iPad in the past then this shouldn't be the case.

However, you can request an unlock code using this link

 

https://www.roco.cc/en/service/downloads/z21upgrade/index.html

 

This assumes that an unlock code has been issued for the z21 in the past.

 

And, the network cable is plugged into one of the yellow ports on the router?

 

Regards,

 

John P

[Moonraking Red]

 

Thanks for your latest responses Iain and John P.
 

It really is frustrating that I watched a seven year old running trains via aniPad one day , a few weeks later I had to disconnect the system from the layout.

 

My issue is that I have the 10825 Z21 start control unit and the 10814 router, all with boxes and manuals. It was disconnected from the original layout, the two wires reconnected to a length of Peco Streamline, and a new input device (tablet) fired up and the app was downloaded. The tablet connects to the TP WiFi, using the password on the case of router.

 

Then nothing, open app, no request to setup, no request for an activation code.
 

The manuals are next to useless as a step-by-step guide. Section 5 mentions the activation code is needed “to activate your Z21…” Having seen the unit in operation I assumed the Z21 was activated. I followed the steps in section 6, but didn’t get a start-up screen when opening the app (which is the Z21 app, not the old Z21Mobile one).
 

No mention in the manual that each new input device needs a new activation code. Likewise, no prompts when opening the app for use ( I would expect the app to say “Is this a new device connecting to an existing Z21 control unit? If yes, find a new activation code.”

 

Anyways, I will follow the steps suggested. I have one more question - where is the serial number of the Z21? Is it contained in the QR code on base of the unit, or is it the little sticker which shows 10825 6 25 B8 on the unit in front of me.

 

 Thanks again for your patience and input. The manual should have a big sticker on it - any problems don’t bother Roco, refer to RmWeb!

 

 

 

[WIMorrison]

I find your comment about the z/Z21 documentation strange, as the Roco documentation is amongst the most comprehensive around. I wonder if you have looked here at the Roco website for documentation?

 

I don't understand what you mean by a Startup Screen for the app, the latest app presents you with this screen where you select Settings, Z21 Connection, and you enter the default address of 192.168.0.111. This is the only configuration needed to access the z21 with the app.

 

 

If you have a laptop download the z21 Maintenance Application from the link above and install it on the laptop. You should then connect the laptop wifi to the z21 router and then open the z21 Maintenance Application, which will then allow you to connect to the z21 to update firmware, but it will prove that the z21 is connecting, and you will need to sort out your phone.

 

If the z21 (note lower case z) has been reset then it is possible that the unlocking code has been lost, and you should find the details in the documentation you received when you purchased the item as an unlocked unit. 

 

NB - I am assuming you have connected a network cable from the z21 network port to one of the yellow sockets on the router.

 

 

 

[TPC]

M R when you get a vanilla z21 the LAN port is locked.  Once you have an unlock key the port is opened via a PC & the maintenance tool.   in your case it is already opened and even the reset you have done won't reset the port.  I had to do it 2 weeks ago and the Lan port stayed open, but turned out the problem was the network cable. Currently there is only one Z21 app for both phone and tabs.  I've change phones a few time and never had to put in a activation code, only the z21 IP address.  Have you reset the router?  Could be that it was set up to only accept certain mac addresses and ignore the rest.  You need to connect to Wi-Fi side of the router - open tabs Wi-Fi, find the router's Wi_Fi  on the list , select, enter password, if it is the first time.  Just like you would log on to any other network.  If possible show a photo of how you have connected the z21 & router?

Serial no only via maintenance tool.  

 

 

[Moonraking Red]

I told you I was a complete novice!

[Moonraking Red]

Lost my text from the last post.

 

The router detail on the iPad shows an IP ending .100. Do I try to change the IP on the Z21 app’s settings page to match this and try to reconnect?

[WIMorrison]

These screens are correct - I suggest that you unplug the z21 from the router and reconnect using, ideally a new cable, but in any case to the LAN port of the z21 and the yellow sockets on the router.

[Moonraking Red]

For TPC, 

 

my connections photo

[WIMorrison]

That is also correct, the LAN is alive as shown by the lights, and you are on the correct network . 

 

The only last potential issue might be if someone has changed the IP Address in the z21 - hold down the button on the front for about 15-10 secs or until the light flashes blue/red (purplish) and let it go. Once the light is blue (steady or flashing) try reconnecting.

 

If that doesn't work then it can only be that the z21 needs unlocking.

[Moonraking Red]

Iain 

 

 

21 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

That is also correct, the LAN is alive as shown by the lights, and you are on the correct network . 

 

The only last potential issue might be if someone has changed the IP Address in the z21 - hold down the button on the front for about 15-10 secs or until the light flashes blue/red (purplish) and let it go. Once the light is blue (steady or flashing) try reconnecting.

 

If that doesn't work then it can only be that the z21 needs unlocking.

Just before I go in search of the activation code, I can confirm I tried a different network cable with no change.

Can I just check -

1.  The router IP address (ending .100) will be different from the Z21 unit.

2. Holding the button until the light goes purple, does this restore  the IP address to 192.168.0.111?

 

Further to other posts re iPads my IOS is 14.8, if it matters.

 

Sorry to be more trouble!

[WIMorrison]

I am concerned about you saying that the router address is 192.168.0.100 as the router should be 192.168.0.1, though I think it is just your words and not the reality of the situation.

 

The address you see on the Z21 App is the IP address for your phone, not the address for the router. Use the browser on your phone (or tablet)  when connected to the z21 router via WiFi to open https://192.168.0.1 which should show you the login page for the router. It will be a page that shows the TP-Link logo and have a space in the centre for the username and password - you don't need to know or enter them, just confirm that you see this page.

 

Resetting the z21 as I describe does change the address o 192.168.0.111.

 

 

[TPC]

The 192.168.0.100 is the IP address the router assigned to the tabs to use.  https://www.z21.eu/en/downloads/manuals  Near the bottom of the www page is the pdf for the router configuration.  If you home PC is already on the 192.168.0.1 - 255 range, unplug the network cable of your PC and plug it in to the TP-link router and follow Iain's steps.  If not, the pdf will guide you in setting up your PC, connect to the router and setting up the Wi_Fi.  

 

Another option is if your PC is on the 192.168.0.  range and using a static IP, plug the z21 directly in the PC, and then use the maintenance tool.  If not on .0. and you not sure how to create a static IP, the first page of the configuration pdf shows how.  On the first screen of the tool change the  IP if necessary and click connect.  If the port is open the 4 tabs will expand to 7 if the port is open.   If the port is locked it will ask on the first tab for the unlocking code.  There is another pdf on the download page that will guide you in getting an unlock code that is linked to the router.  The last tab has the programmer which you can use to reset the locos to factory default.

 

You could also connect the z21 directly to your home router, just like to the TP-link, as long as the router is on 192.168.0.1.  Rest of the steps for phone/tab apply.  Have you tried the app on another phone/ tab?