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Roco Z21 - DCC not a clue


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Gents, I thought I was following you but now admit to some confusion.

 

So I have managed to reset the z21 unit to IP address 192.168.0.111 by pressing the front button. Yes?

 

On the iPad the TP (Roco router) WiFi connection currently shows the table below, but should the IP address entry line be changed from 192.168.0.100 to 192.168.0.111 to match the reset z21 address? (I would need to do this by switching Configure IP from Automatic to Manual, with no change required to the Subnet mask).

 

The iPad will then talk to the Z21 or maybe not?

 

Am I on the right track? 

 

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These settings are all correct for the application.

 

you now need to set the address of the z21 into the app. The address you need to enter for the z21 is 192.168.0.111. You enter this into the Z21 settings page then click the reconnect to z21 button.

 

if you have it correct then the app will connect.

 

 

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Iain 

 

My iPad network screen now shows the following  under IPV4 address (entered manually, assume the subnet mask does not need to be changed?).

 

However, I still get an error message in the Z21 Updater app (getting the error message shown in one of my Tuesday posts), and the Z21 app will not reconnect to 192.168.0.111 (still saying no connection to z21.

 

Should I give up or alternatively try a different input device?

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This last post is WRONG.  You MUST leave the selection on Automatic.

 

The Z21 address is entered in the Z21 App where it asks for the Z21 Connection address - it shows that the default address should be 192.168.0.111.

 

 

Edited by WIMorrison
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Iain 

 

Sorry for taking up your time, I really appreciate your help.

 

So I have switched the iPad back to Automatic on the TP WiFi page to get the screen/ IP address section shown below.

 

However, when I try to input https://192.168.0.1 into the browser it returns ERR_CONNECTION_FAILED. Assume this means although the iPad is recognising the Roco router’s signal, it will not talk to it.

 

From the Z21 app therefore it will still not reconnect to 192.168.0.111 when the button is pressed on the relevant settings page.

 

Do I need to try another input device?

 

The only thing proven to date - I am definitely a complete novice.

 

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I don't know anything about the Z21 but if you don't know the address of a loco then (after trying the obvious of the Loco's number!) simply reprogramme the loco with a number you know - the loco number?

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1 hour ago, Moonraking Red said:

Iain, thanks for the PM. I will reply later.

 

The use of plain http worked, and brought up the TP login screen, which I didn't fiddle with.

 

The Z21 app  reconnect did not work.

 

 

Can you please post a screenshot of the page that you see when you go into Z21 Settings please? The Z21 Settings menu item that I show here

 

 

C1905895-A07A-4139-9522-A727D97FCB65.png

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Iain,

 

Thanks for your PM, offer much appreciated but it looks like I have made some progress.
 

It seems the problem is caused by the iPad (6th generation) not liking Z21. So although I had seen the unit operated by an iPad, it just didn’t want to work with mine!
 

In desperation, I pulled a Sony XA2 mobile out of the drawer, and fired it up, it set up the app straightaway.

 

So I’m afraid for whatever reason Apple have contrived to waste all our time.

I thank Iain in particular but also the other RmWebbers who have given me their time / expertise.

 

l would love to know what makes the iPad throw a ‘wobbly’, but my task is primarily to dispose of the railway stuff for my late friend’s estate.

 

Reminding everyone that I’m very much a DCC novice, my next task is to test the various locos to check they work okay. Given I have no loco addresses and minimal loco-specific paperwork, can the z21 detect the existing address and functionality of each loco? Would I use cv programming manual mode to do this?


Thanks again.

 

 


 

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I use the app on an iPad and it doesn’t present any issue therefore I don’t think that the issue is with the iPad, plus you are able to connect to the z21 router which also suggests that there isn’t a fault with the iPad - I am still think that you haven’t put the z21 address into the iPad app - but at least you have a wiring app now, albeit on a different device.

 

You need to enter all the data for the loco into the z21 app as the app doesn’t support reading the decoder settings and store them - and almost certainly your decoders don’t have this facility which is only available from one manufacturer and that isn’t Roco :)

 

whqt you need to do is read up how to create a programming track and make that. You then need to read CV1 on each loco to find what the address is, finding out what CVs operate which function is rather more difficult and generally you would rely on the documentation for the loco or decoder to tell you which function key does what.

 

there are ways to use a PC to elicit this information from the decoder, but I humbly suggest that isn’t a route that you should consider following until you have someone that can give to some hands on support e.g. a local model railway club?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • RMweb Gold

Just to be clear, unlike the Black Z21 the white z21 doesn't have a separate output for a programming track. You only have one track connector. The main track acts as your programming track once you select the correct option within the App for programming. Then the base unit reduces voltage to the main track and goes into programming mode. As ian says, in programming you can 'read' the cv's to determine their values ( loco number etc) once you know the loco's dcc number you go into Vehicles ( where you saw an existing list of foreign locos) and click on the little + Icon to create a new loco in the register, adding in among other details the dcc number it has been given. Once you have done this you go into into 'steering' ? I think and among the other locos listed you SHOULD see the new one you have added and be able to drive it

 Now you have the system running it IS worth reading the online manual you were shown to better understand how things work ?  Once you've had a play and got the basics we should be able to help with more detailed info if you find you need it

 

HTH

 

Cheers

Matt

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  • RMweb Gold

I think if you read cv8 it will at least give you a manufacturer ID so you can identify the make of decoder. I cant remember if a separate cv gives you a decoder type ? ( Someone will be along in a moment no doubt with that info !)  Btw as long as you ONLY read a cv number, you will be making no changes. so unless you CHANGE a cv value and then write it. . You will make no changes.

  Within the program section in the App you should see options for Program on main (POM) and Programming track  To read CV's you need to be on the programming track NOT Program on main (POM). POM can write only, to make changes but it can't READ CV's to tell you what the value is, or if values have been successfully written ( changed)  So to read CV's you need the programming track option

Edited by Matt C
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  • RMweb Gold

One trick I can give you that MIGHT help once you know a loco's dcc running number. . So you've read cv1 and you see that the loco runs under say. . 55 but you dont know if it has lights or sound etc. . Go to Vehicles where you see the list of the continental engines. . Click on number 12 ( its the red OBB 1116)

 

Now scroll down and near the bottom you will see ' Duplicate' click on this. Now hit the back button to go to the original list and you will see TWO number 12's. Click on one and now in the box where you see loco address, change it to YOUR loco number. You can also change the NAME to something like Test.

Now go into Steering and look through the list for Test and click on it to sellect. You can now Test drive your vehicle to see if it responds.  BUT the clever thing is that on the left you will see a list of functions already configured that you can click on to see if you get any lights or sounds. Its NOT foolproof as the functions on the fitted decoder MAY be configured differently, but I've used this method to check for functions on a few second hand locos and generaly you get SOME response even if its not quite relevent to the icon displayed.

 

HTH

cheersMatt

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

 

whqt you need to do is read up how to create a programming track and make that. You then need to read CV1 on each loco to find what the address is, finding out what CVs operate which function is rather more difficult and generally you would rely on the documentation for the loco or decoder to tell you which function key does what.

 

Not quite.   Need to read the active address in each loco on the programming track.   I'd hope the z21 App will let you do that, without faffing with CV numbers. 

 

The active address might be long or short, depending on the setting in CV29.  And conceivably might even be a consist address (set in CV19), though that's the least likely in practise.   

If short, then CV1 gives the address.   

If long, then a calculation on the values in CV17&18 will give the long address.   

I'd hope the z21 App does this CV stuff for you, no need to read these CVs manually, and then interpret them. 

( If wanting the details, I wrote this many years ago:   http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29 calculator.htm   )

 

I'd say "faffing with functions" is not for someone who just wants to sell on some stock.    

 

 

Alternative approach to the addresses, may be a lot simpler:   put each loco (one by one) on the programming track, select the programming and just WRITE a new address to each loco - perhaps use short address "3", as its the default address of any decoder.  (If doing this, and if the z21 doesn't also automatically set CV29 (I suspect it does), then also write "6" to CV29).   Then the locos will run on the known address.   

 

 

As others have said, reading CV8 will give the decoder maker. Having found the maker, deducing which decoder is then much more complex, and not always possible (depends on the decoder maker, and specific decoder model). 

 

 

- Nigel

 

Edited by Nigelcliffe
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@NigelcliffeI like to keep things simples, especially with novice users, until there is a need to get complicated. I find if you jump in with a complicated (full, but nonetheless complicated) answer immediately, it actually scares and panics people. Leading them gently along the road providing the right guidance and help and the appropriate time has worked wonders over the past 50 years of working :) 

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  • RMweb Gold

Hi Nigel, its a while since I've been able to fire up my Z21 so im unable to check right now. But I'm pretty sure the way the Z21 works is. . . In programming one of the first options is to enter the dcc address for the loco on the test track, if you don't KNOW it, just under the box is an option to READ it. I don't think it matters whether its 2 or 4, the Z21 will read and display it as its written on the chip. It's the quickest and easiest way to check as far as I CAN remember. Ill double check next time im able but that wont be for some time unfortunately.

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Gentlemen

 

Thanks to all for the advice. A lot of information to digest, and very helpful.

 

Matt C - the tip re vehicle 12 works for me, although as Iain noted, looking forwards to reading up on the subject.

 

RMWeb is a great source of encouragement.

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18 hours ago, Matt C said:

Hi Nigel, its a while since I've been able to fire up my Z21 so im unable to check right now. But I'm pretty sure the way the Z21 works is. . . In programming one of the first options is to enter the dcc address for the loco on the test track, if you don't KNOW it, just under the box is an option to READ it. I don't think it matters whether its 2 or 4, the Z21 will read and display it as its written on the chip. It's the quickest and easiest way to check as far as I CAN remember. Ill double check next time im able but that wont be for some time unfortunately.

 

Z21 will auto-set CV29 for long addresses if the option is set within the Z21 using the Z21 Maintenance Tool.

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  • RMweb Gold
1 hour ago, WIMorrison said:

 

Z21 will auto-set CV29 for long addresses if the option is set within the Z21 using the Z21 Maintenance Tool.

 

Yup. I was trying to say that if you didn't know what loco address had been assigned it didn't matter as the Z21 would read from the chip and display either 2 or 4 digits depending on what it read from the chip ?

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On 14/10/2021 at 22:44, WIMorrison said:

@NigelcliffeI like to keep things simples, especially with novice users, until there is a need to get complicated. I find if you jump in with a complicated (full, but nonetheless complicated) answer immediately, it actually scares and panics people. Leading them gently along the road providing the right guidance and help and the appropriate time has worked wonders over the past 50 years of working :) 

Could not agree more - all too often newbies/newcomers ect ask as simple question & get overcomplicated replies.

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