Single track branch passing loop signal

[wasdavetheroad]

This is the current track plan developed in AnyRail, just under 5 metres wide and using Kato HO Unitrack

 

Feel free to add signals to it

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

On 10/10/2021 at 16:02, wasdavetheroad said:

This will be part of my next layout. A passing loop on a single track branch line. The loops contain up and down platforms. There is also a small goods yard with maybe 3 pick up goods per day.

 

My question is where to put the up starter semaphore. 'A' looks logical and 'B' probably dangerous if there are trains awaiting to depart the UP loop and the Yard. Maybe 'A' and another stop signal at 'X'?. The Yard will need a signal at 'C' and could this be a ground signal?

 

I have now added a plain image of the current AnyRail plan. OO scale, just under 5 metres long and Kato Unitrack

 

 

BTW N.B. that I am using your original Up & Down directions - sorryThe Starter would go at position A but obviously in rear of the fouling point of the connection to the yard.

 

The yard is perfectly workable as it stand.  A freight to shunt the goods yard would arrive on the Up Line and would arrive during a gap in the passenger train service.  Hopefully the wagons for this station would be next to the engine but they might not be - it's just easier to shunt off the front of the train.  Subject to some Regional differences regarding signalling for ground discs etc and the period you are modelling (which affects the Regulations for signalling the initial shunting movement) it is all totally straightforward. 

 

The arriving train would be uncoupled behind teh wagons to be shunted to the yard and the engine would draw forward clear of the double to single line connection and theDown Home Signal at B - the pints would be changed anda ground disc signal cleared to allow the shunt back in to the yard which might involve also shunting out wagons ready to go as well as positioning wagons that are arriving.  these shunting moves might require the engine to move wagons from the yard onto the trains standing in the Up platform and vice versa.  There will also be a ground disc reading from the yard at position C and there might (depending very much on which Company/BR Region signalled the layout and when) be another disc at B for the movment back towards the train on the Up Line.

 

If need be you could put the freight off into either the longest siding on the Up side or into the loop/siding on the Down side (which of course blocks the latter for anything else although you might want to put it over on that side to exchange  wagons to/from the quarry).  If a lot of shunting regularly takes place at the location there might well be an Advanced Starting Signal at X but it is not essential - look at examples in teh area you are modelling to see if such a signal was provided. 

 

You do not need a subsidiary Shunt Ahead arm below signal A and in any case you couldn't have one if Signal X was present.  Under the normal Regulations for shunting onto a single line the Driver would either be given the token/staff etc and signal A would be cleared or he would be instructed by the Signalman to pass signal A at danger purely for shunting purposes.  You also need a ground disc applicable to the Down Line opposite Signal A which would then allow the Down Line to be used to run round when such was needed.   The Starting Signal from the Down platform needs to be a full size semaphore - not a ground disc.

 

Coming to the Down side we need to rethink some of the items which have crept in previously.  Firstly and following LMS practice signal B would logically have a bracketed miniature arm reading to the exchange sidings loop plus a double disc (LMS method with one reading to the goods yard and the other reading towards the Up platform line (there would need to be a Liomit of Shunt board at the far end of the Up platform lne as there is no signal there to limit a shunt movement towards that line.    Next I think it most likely under LNWR/LMS practice that the signals reading from the exchange sidings loop at either end would also be miniature semaphores in bothe cases with two arms (one above the ther) because they read to two routes - however ground discs would be an acceptable substitute.   You also need a ground disc ) reading back from the headshunt at the other end towards the exchange loop.  

 

You might need a signal of some sort reading from the quarry line to the exchange loop but practice b varied enormously in that respect (see Nearholmer's post above).  But whatever else is there the quarry line definitely needs a gate.  As already noted the quarry engine needs to be passed to run over the mainline company's lines.  The amount of mainline railway it would be allowed to run over is debatable but i think it would not include the Main running iines.  the exchange layout you have. readily allows an Up train to both drop off and pick up loaded quarry wagons as you have two available siding in that direction.  There is only one Down siding so while traffic could be exchanged in that direction it means that the quarry engine has first to shunt empties out of theeh siding before it can put the loaded wagons into it - there appears to be sufficient headroom for that but the engine obviously needs to be powerful enough and the gradient from the quarry might present a problem.   Maybe the siding layout needs a rethink or exchange is worked only by Up trains and the Down facing siding becomes spare or is used as a cripple road.

[wasdavetheroad]

Thanks Mike for the comprehensive reply. I think I understand it all. The only problem is the DOWN signal at B. Dapol do a bracket home signal but with both arms full size although the left hand version has the arm set lower.

 

I do want to operate the main signals but ground signals etc are beyond my old hands capabilities.

 

edit, just found some images, it looks like I will have to add a non working miniature arm to a normal signal

Edited October 13, 2021 by wasdavetheroad

[micknich2003]

Michael, Rule 31 in the old black book covers the working of privately owned engines, not allowed unless authorised by the Operating Superintendent

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, wasdavetheroad said:

Thanks Mike for the comprehensive reply. I think I understand it all. The only problem is the DOWN signal at B. Dapol do a bracket home signal but with both arms full size although the left hand version has the arm set lower.

 

I do want to operate the main signals but ground signals etc are beyond my old hands capabilities.

 

edit, just found some images, it looks like I will have to add a non working miniature arm to a normal signal

Do you absolutely want to avoid using upper quadrant signals because you are keeping it very much in LNWR days?

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, micknich2003 said:

Michael, Rule 31 in the old black book covers the working of privately owned engines, not allowed unless authorised by the Operating Superintendent

And the authorities were normally listed in the relevant Sectional Appendix

[wasdavetheroad]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Do you absolutely want to avoid using upper quadrant signals because you are keeping it very much in LNWR days?

Not absolutely as the C,K&PR did have some signals replaced with upper quadrants. I have 4 lower quadrant and need 2 more of LNWR or LMS type. 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, wasdavetheroad said:

Not absolutely as the C,K&PR did have some signals replaced with upper quadrants. I have 4 lower quadrant and need 2 more of LNWR or LMS type. 

There is an ideal ratio kit for signal B but of their original sort.-

https://peco-uk.com/collections/oo-signals/products/lms-round-post-signal

 

However Dapol did do a standard tubular post upper quadrant signal (not currecntly list but there are some on Ebay and you could possibly modify it with (non-working) parts from the Ratio kit to create the miniature arm on a small bracket to read into the exchange loop?