Jump to content

Freightliner's environmental credentials down the pan


Recommended Posts

There is plenty of scope to increase the renewable energy supply in the UK. 

Every navigable river has weirs where small scale hydro could be installed ( Mainland Europe  manages to do this very well,) even the non navigable rivers are possible without the need for a huge dam and lake. 

There are numerous old water  mills ripe for conversion for small scale local supply 

Old nuclear sites could be used for wind generation without disturbing the glowing bits.

These might all be small scale, but they soon add up and if we are serious about moving to renewable then we need to get energy where we can. 

 

On the subject of insulation, there is a cavity built into the wall for a reason. Filling it negates that

 

Andy

Edited by SM42
  • Like 4
  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, SM42 said:

There is plenty of scope to increase the renewable energy supply in the UK. .....

 

100%

We have the potential for plentiful supplies of renewable energy, much of which is guaranteed 24 / 7 / 365.

The scope for mass deployment of small scale micro-generation, is significant.

There's potential in geothermal, even though we're not exactly Iceland.

Ground source heating.

Then there's the tides.

Even in the depths of winter, we can squeeze out a reasonable amount of solar on many days, during daytime.

 

At around 10.00 this morning, the UK was supplying 57% of its electricity from gas.

Demand at the time was around 31GW

 

As I type this post, just after 15.00, demand is still at 31GW.

Gas is providing 53% of our electricity generation.

The sun is shining (it's quite warm here on the S. Coast) and we are getting 9.2% of our electricity from solar....in mid-October!

Wind is down to only 5.7%  (it's averaged only 6.9% over the last 24hrs). 

Hydro is a paltry 0.9%

 

 

 

.

  • Informative/Useful 2
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, DY444 said:

gets my goat though is the hypocrisy.  It's already been mentioned that the "insulate" protesters either haven't done their own homes or don't know.  That totally undermines their argument in my opinion

I see what you're saying, but having had some quotes to improve the insulation at my house, to it seems like retrofitting insulation is something that the wealthy might be able to do, but most people are unlikely to have the funds hanging around for. Doubly so with the way fuel costs are going (creating a vicious cycle...).

 

The green homes grant of this time last year was a total farce (someone more cynical than I might suggest that it was intended to look like something was being done without the need to actually do anything or spend any money), a scheme like that which actually delivers something is what's needed.

  • Agree 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

Back on the subject of the electric railway, it’s been posted over on WNXX that FL and the other FOCs are still using some AC traction but seemingly concentrated north of Crewe.

 

This is tied into the availability of train paths!

 

Further south running on diesel isn't as much of an issue due to the WCML having 'slow lines' thus keeping freight out the way of fast passengers services. North of Crewe the WCML is a basically a double track (and steeply graded at that) railway.

 

As I said earlier if a FOC puts a diesel on a liner train over Shap or Bettock it takes up 3 electric freight paths and transit time is much slower as it gets chucked into every single loop  available - though as some of those loops are also not particularly long, train lengths are impacted too...

 

 

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

 

On the subject of insulation, there is a cavity built into the wall for a reason. Filling it negates that

 

Andy

 

My understanding is that cavity was more about preventing rising being a problem. The Victorians didn't have the luxury of modern polymers or build in things such as damp courses.

 

Engineering has moved on however and there is ZERO NEED for empty cavities in buildings these days (even old ones) as we have an extensive suite of treatments that can be retrofitted and allow the filling of any cavities that exist with insulation.

 

In other words don't make excuses - while I don't support some of the more extreme measures taken, Insulate Britain are 100% correct when they say far more action is required by Government to tackle the issue and deal with existing poor quality housing stock  Leaving things up to 'the power of the free market' doesn't wash!

  • Agree 2
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, phil-b259 said:

 

My understanding is that cavity was more about preventing rising being a problem. The Victorians didn't have the luxury of modern polymers or build in things such as damp courses.

 

Engineering has moved on however and there is ZERO NEED for empty cavities in buildings these days (even old ones) as we have an extensive suite of treatments that can be retrofitted and allow the filling of any cavities that exist with insulation.

 

In other words don't make excuses - while I don't support some of the more extreme measures taken, Insulate Britain are 100% correct when they say far more action is required by Government to tackle the issue and deal with existing poor quality housing stock  Leaving things up to 'the power of the free market' doesn't wash!

 

It's not an excuse. Older cavities being filled cause all sorts of problems. 

New builds can engineer it out at construction. 

1980s  houses not so easy  and how much do you expect a householder to pay to treat the problems that are being stored up?

 

The will might be there but the money not. 

 

For what it's worth  I saw no reduction in heating bills when filling a wall cavity.  10 years later I still haven't recovered the subsidised cost.

Upgrading the boiler did make a big difference. 

 

Andy

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, SM42 said:

For what it's worth  I saw no reduction in heating bills when filling a wall cavity.  10 years later I still haven't recovered the subsidised cost.

Upgrading the boiler did make a big difference. 

 

I am not surprised.  Air is a pretty good insulator, and if the cavity is not too big there won't be much transfer from convection either.  In fact that was why cavity walls were such a good idea in the first place.  So replacing a good insulator with a slightly better one is not going to get the gains you would get by upgrading something with more room for improvement, e.g. a better boiler.

  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Titan said:

  Air is a pretty good insulator

Which is the principle that layers of clothing work on, trapping layers of warm air close to the body.

 

I don't know about cavity wall insulation, but since heat rises, well insulating lofts/ roof spaces ought to be effective. You can tell who's got a week insulated loft when it snows by seeing where it melts quicker...

  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

My mother-in-law had extra insulation added to her loft as part of a government-subsidised scheme about ten years ago, as the existing insulation between the beams didn't meet modern standards and there was no insulation under the roof felt itself.

 

I had to go up there to finish the job.  The installers had simply unrolled the fiberglass insulation at right angles to the beams, over the top of any boxes that were stored there which they hadn't even bothered to move.  It took me about an hour to get the rolls to match up and form a reasonably even layer across the roof.  The installers had spent about 30 minutes and charged the nation something like £500 for their efforts. 

 

This is why I am wary of government schemes for things like home insulation because when it's known there is a slush fund of government money, any number of dodgy traders will wade in and soak up as much as possible while actually delivering as little as possible.

 

Sorry, hands-up, I'm one of those guilty of taking this thread off-topic.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 4
  • Friendly/supportive 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

In fact slate damp courses are pretty old, older I think than cavity walls.

The other thing to watch is that is it not a good idea to seal buildings so that there is no air exchange, despite what is often preached. You need ventilation, and if the building is sealed you have to have mechanical ventilation, which then needs to be maintained (but often isn't).

Otherwise you are on the route to all sorts of respiratory and other diseases.  The generic term is sick building syndrome.

It is interesting that with Covid opening windows has suddenly gained approval again.

Sorry, off topic but it is another issue when one tries to reduce energy use in buildings.

Jonathan

  • Like 3
  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
On 16/10/2021 at 10:25, mikejames said:

Given that Felixstowe is a dominant container port, I assume putting up wires to there has been looked at.

presumably trains towards London could then use the wires so is the problem most stuff goes to ely and peterborough

and the midlands over dominantly non wired routes?

Similarly there was a plan (electric spine?) to add overhead wires to Southampton which was abandoned - not sure if for technical or cost reasons.

Given the strategic review due soon - any hope??

 

mike j

 

 

Would there be an issue with loading/unloading metal containers with 25kv a few feet above? Especially as at peesent they are loaded from above?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
5 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

In fact slate damp courses are pretty old, older I think than cavity walls.

The other thing to watch is that is it not a good idea to seal buildings so that there is no air exchange, despite what is often preached. You need ventilation, and if the building is sealed you have to have mechanical ventilation, which then needs to be maintained (but often isn't).

Otherwise you are on the route to all sorts of respiratory and other diseases.  The generic term is sick building syndrome.

It is interesting that with Covid opening windows has suddenly gained approval again.

Sorry, off topic but it is another issue when one tries to reduce energy use in buildings.

Jonathan

Well off topic now but you are correct, one of the many problems of climate change policy idiocy. Increasing insulation and eliminating "draughts" is causing huge increase in damp and mould in residential properties. When combined with fuel poverty due to price rises and carbon taxes there are serious long term health issues and leads to deterioration of of the building fabric. 

  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Bucoops said:

 

Would there be an issue with loading/unloading metal containers with 25kv a few feet above? Especially as at peesent they are loaded from above?

Containers have been handled at electrified terminals for 50+ years; the wiring stops short of the loading and unloading area. Examples include the terminals at Manchester (Trafford Park and Euroterminal), Liverpool Garston and Glasgow. Likewise, many terminals in France, and elsewhere, are wired.

  • Agree 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

 

I had to go up there to finish the job.  The installers had simply unrolled the fiberglass insulation at right angles to the beams, over the top of any boxes that were stored there which they hadn't even bothered to move.  It took me about an hour to get the rolls to match up and form a reasonably even layer across the roof.  The installers had spent about 30 minutes and charged the nation something like £500 for their efforts. 


A friend moved into a council house about 15 years ago and found the tv aerial was seemingly mis-aligned so I popped into the loft and found it was 4’ deep in insulation. It emerged the housing association policy was that each time a property changed tenants loft insulation had to be installed, rather than simply checked it was to standard…

  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
  • Funny 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

It is interesting that with Covid opening windows has suddenly gained approval again.

 

.:offtopic:  If we get the flu epidemic that the doctors are predicting for this winter, we'll be told to shut them again

....        and to put on another jumper if we can't afford the heating bill.

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 16/10/2021 at 11:56, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

We aren’t struggling to produce enough electricity.

.

I rather think the UK is struggling to produce enough electricity!

Currently approximately 8% of the electricity used in the UK comes from imported sources, a lot of which is French produced nuclear power.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/what-are-electricity-interconnectors

Note that in the relatively near future, this figure is predicted to reach 25%.

 

I’m no expert but I had a role to play in building this;

https://web.archive.org/web/20111117180342/http://www.mutual-energy.com/The_Moyle_Interconnector/History_and_Development_of_the_Interconnector.php

  • Agree 2
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Back on topic, the next question is whether the climate wallies will stop jumping in front of 70mph motorway traffic and decide to try the same trick in front of a 75 mph FL 66 and 1235t trailing load when they hear about this? Let's hope not.

  • Funny 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Allegheny1600 said:

I rather think the UK is struggling to produce enough electricity!

Currently approximately 8% of the electricity used in the UK comes from imported sources, a lot of which is French produced nuclear power.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/what-are-electricity-interconnectors

Note that in the relatively near future, this figure is predicted to reach 25%.

 

I’m no expert but I had a role to play in building this;

https://web.archive.org/web/20111117180342/http://www.mutual-energy.com/The_Moyle_Interconnector/History_and_Development_of_the_Interconnector.php

To add to this; a serious fire, a couple of weeks ago at the Interconnecter terminal at Sellinge will lead to reduced capacity for some time:- https://www.nationalgrid.com/incidents/IFASeptember21

  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

To add to this; a serious fire, a couple of weeks ago at the Interconnecter terminal at Sellinge will lead to reduced capacity for some time:- https://www.nationalgrid.com/incidents/IFASeptember21


Fortunately, this event coincided with the new interconnector from Norway coming on stream, which has helped make up the shortfall.

 

 

.

 

  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Containers have been handled at electrified terminals for 50+ years; the wiring stops short of the loading and unloading area. Examples include the terminals at Manchester (Trafford Park and Euroterminal), Liverpool Garston and Glasgow. Likewise, many terminals in France, and elsewhere, are wired.

 

Intrigued as to how they unload the first wagon behind the loco

 

This is where last mile diesel, or better still battery would come into its own. 

 

I wonder how much it would cost to convert the existing fleet compared to new locos for when electricity is cheap again. 

 

If it's anything like a car, around a quarter of the cost at a guess

 

Andy

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Allegheny1600 said:

I rather think the UK is struggling to produce enough electricity!

Currently approximately 8% of the electricity used in the UK comes from imported sources, a lot of which is French produced nuclear power.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/what-are-electricity-interconnectors

Note that in the relatively near future, this figure is predicted to reach 25%.

 


We appear to import between 8 and 12% of our electric through the interconnectors, on any particular day.

As I type this post, we are receiving 8.8% of our needs through these links.

 

BritNed (from the Netherlands)    2.5%

Nemo Link (from Belgium).            3.0%

North Sea Link (from Norway)       2.1%

IFA 1  ( from France)                         nil  (out of action)

IFA 2  ( from France)                         2.9%


Balanced by exporting electricity to Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Moyle  (to N Ireland)                        - 1.0%

E-W interconnector (to Ireland)     -  0.7%

 

These links, just as the importing of natural gas, are being used to cover the shortfall created by phasing out of the coal fired stations and as a cheap alternative to having invested in our own new generation of nuclear power stations.

They are not there because we’re struggling to produce enough electricity.

They’re there because of a deliberate policy to buy-in rather than invest in our own generating capacity.

The problem being that this policy has left the UK dependent on external sources and at the mercy of international energy markets.

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

  • Agree 3
  • Round of applause 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Containers have been handled at electrified terminals for 50+ years; the wiring stops short of the loading and unloading area. Examples include the terminals at Manchester (Trafford Park and Euroterminal), Liverpool Garston and Glasgow. Likewise, many terminals in France, and elsewhere, are wired.

 

16 minutes ago, SM42 said:

 

Intrigued as to how they unload the first wagon behind the loco

 

This is where last mile diesel, or better still battery would come into its own. 


In a terminal with dead end sidings, the electric loco can run round outside and the reverse the containers into the handling area, dropping off if necessary to create space between loco and train. But isn’t Felixstowe different and is a circuit so the loco hauls it’s train throughout?

Edited by brushman47544
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, SM42 said:

 

Intrigued as to how they unload the first wagon behind the loco

 

This is where last mile diesel, or better still battery would come into its own. 

 

I wonder how much it would cost to convert the existing fleet compared to new locos for when electricity is cheap again. 

 

If it's anything like a car, around a quarter of the cost at a guess

 

Andy

Freightliner, at least, seem to have diesel shunters to move the wagons behind the wires. Other possibilities might include under-train 'mules', or even Unimog or similar road-rail tractors.

  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, brushman47544 said:

 


In a terminal with dead end sidings, the electric loco can run round outside and the reverse the containers into the handling area. But isn’t Felixstowe different and is a circuit so the loco hauls it’s train throughout?

The most recent terminal at Felixstowe is a single-ended one, with a traverser at the other end to allow the loco to run around.

  • Informative/Useful 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...