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Intercity 125 / HST use on Minor / Branch Lines - at London Termini


MyRule1
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33 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Not likely to be any HSTs on the Southern 3rd rail electrified routes unless they are fitted with Short Swing Link bogies.

So presumably those used to run via Blazingsmoke to Poole would have been from a special - er - pool?

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33 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Not likely to be any HSTs on the Southern 3rd rail electrified routes unless they are fitted with Short Swing Link bogies.

So presumably those used to run via Blazingsmoke to Poole would have been from a special - er - pool?

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Not sure if it was a special pool Old Dudders, probably just had to be SSL fitted I guess.

 

IIRC years ago one of the HSTs diverted to Waterloo during the Paddington shut down was terminated early on route, after 'someone' fortunately spotted one of the trailer coaches had LSL bogies fitted. 

 

As I understand it even if LSL bogies were to fitted it would still require a fairly well out of gauge juice rail rail and well worn tyres to cause the earthing out issue anyway. But I'll stand corrected if I have misunderstood....

 

I am sure that there is someone on here far more conversant with the specifics and can explain it far more eloquently than I can. 

 

I'd have liked to have done a trip round the deep south on an HST set. 

 

Praps this might have pulled in a crowd in normal times, If only for unusual traction? Admittedly it would cost a few quid for the gauging survey.

 

Vic Plat 2 

run via CLJ and ECR to UCK

UCK to HUR

HUR to EGR (NR)

EGR (NR) to SPK (BBR)

SPK (BBR) to ECR

ECR to EBN

EBN to BTN

BTN to HHE

HHE to SEF

SEF to HHE

HHE to LIT

LIT to BOG

BOG to RDH

RDH to HGS via TON

HGS to ADP

ADP to DGN 

DGN to VIC plat 2 via AFK......

 

Ta Da...

 

Well I'd go anyway.....:D especially if there was an Ale coach.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Grizz
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15 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Vic Plat 2 

run via CLJ and ECR to UCK

UCK to HUR

HUR to EGR (NR)

EGR (NR) to SPK (BBR)

SPK (BBR) to ECR

ECR to EBN

EBN to BTN

BTN to HHE

HHE to SEF

SEF to HHE

HHE to LIT

LIT to BOG

BOG to RDH

RDH to HGS via TON

HGS to ADP

ADP to DGN 

DGN to VIC plat 2 via AFK......

 

Ta Da...

 

Well I'd go anyway.....:D especially if there was an Ale coach.

 

 

 

 

I think the preferred route to EC (called YO in my era, as per the LBSCR usage) might be via Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Gipsy Hill, avoiding blocking traffic at Pouparts Junction. Still struggling to recognise DGN and AFK..... 

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Not London terminii, but the Blackpool-Portsmouth service was HST for a few years around 1999-ish. The route was Reading-Guildford-Pompey Direct. The service terminated at Portsmouth & Southsea and never went into the Harbour AFAIK.

 

A great train for getting to Fratton Park for the football on a  Saturday, but the return left before kick-off. 

 

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Not sure if it was a special pool Old Dudders, probably just had to be SSL fitted I guess.

 

IIRC years ago one of the HSTs diverted to Waterloo during the Paddington shut down was terminated early on route, after 'someone' fortunately spotted one of the trailer coaches had LSL bogies fitted. 

 

As I understand it even if LSL bogies were to fitted it would still require a fairly well out of gauge juice rail rail and well worn tyres to cause the earthing out issue anyway. But I'll stand corrected if I have misunderstood....

 

I am sure that there is someone on here far more conversant with the specifics and can explain it far more eloquently than I can. 

 

I'd have liked to have done a trip round the deep south on an HST set. 

 

Praps this might have pulled in a crowd in normal times, If only for unusual traction? Admittedly it would cost a few quid for the gauging survey.

 

Vic Plat 2 

run via CLJ and ECR to UCK

UCK to HUR

HUR to EGR (NR)

EGR (NR) to SPK (BBR)

SPK (BBR) to ECR

ECR to EBN

EBN to BTN

BTN to HHE

HHE to SEF

SEF to HHE

HHE to LIT

LIT to BOG

BOG to RDH

RDH to HGS via TON

HGS to ADP

ADP to DGN 

DGN to VIC plat 2 via AFK......

 

Ta Da...

 

Well I'd go anyway.....:D especially if there was an Ale coach.

 

 

 

 

It's a long time ago, but IIRC, GW HSTs were prepared ahead of the Paddington shut down by concentrating SSL bogies into a pool of diversion-friendly sets.

 

John

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15 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

Pedantically, I always thought of the Tenby/Pembroke Dock line as a branch. It's single track with loops and a junction at Whitland, was built by an independent company and standard gauge from the start while the South Wales Railway was broad gauge. Granted the Pembroke & Tenby eventually had through services but the main line was originally to Neyland, then more recently Milford Haven.

So I'd class the HST workings to Pembroke Dock  as being on a branch line. ;)

It has always been a branch.  Originally the main line route was to Neyland but it later effectively became Fishguard although Neyland still had a TPO (actually a POT) and a sleeper service to/from Paddington which ran to/from Milford Haven after Neyland was closed.   But Pembroke Dock always was a branchline from Whitland although it has had through trains from London at various times over the years.

2 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

Well in that case you can include the Greenford Loop and the "New Line" through Park Royal which was regularly used to turn HSTs from OOC when for one reason or another they'd got turned elsewhere to keep the first class at the Paddington end which was preferred.

And turn them for defective windscreen wipers on occasion (for which we could also add Oxford Road Curve at Reading) 

 

Among regular diversionary routes you can add Thingley Jcn - Bradford Jcn - Westbury (although actually there were booked trains that way). Plus Castle Cary - Yeovil Pen Mill (formerly a main line route) and Yeovil Pen Mill - Yeovil Jcn which has always been a branch line.

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2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

So presumably those used to run via Blazingsmoke to Poole would have been from a special - er - pool?

Not at one time - Control simply had a list of those sets fitted with short swing links ;)

 

another London terminus which regularly saw HST power cars at one time was Eusti on when they were being used asa preluded to DVTs on the WCML.  officially they were meant to be used just as a DVT but they could, and did, work under power on occasion and they could deliver what might politely be described as 'a very spirited run' up the WCML such as I enjoyed on one occasion. 

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7 hours ago, Ramblin Rich said:

I think this was probably 'The First Devon & Exeter Explorer' charity HST railtour, powered by 43187 & 43188 on 10/10/15, which was also the last passenger train to run up to Heathfield.

That is most likely correct. Great Western Railway was formed and the new livery introduced on the 20th September of that year so it would tie in nicely.

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6 hours ago, Grizz said:

As I understand it even if LSL bogies were to fitted it would still require a fairly well out of gauge juice rail rail and well worn tyres to cause the earthing out issue anyway. But I'll stand corrected if I have misunderstood....

It would be interesting to know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was simply a case of infringing the 75mm electrical clearance that is, in any case, a nominal figure going back to Ministry of Transport days (when it was 3"). You have to get a lot closer than that for 750V to be tempted to flash over. (In my LU days, we occasionally got brushgear to frame flashovers on the LT118 motors on the D78 stock when it went onto BR metals, and they were always between the sharp corner of the opening in the motor frame and the corner of one of the brushgear bolts. As far as we knew, they never did it twice as the arc rounded off the sharp corners on the bolt heads. That gap was nominally 19mm (3/4").

 

Jim

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4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

(for which we could also add Oxford Road Curve at Reading) 

As I opened up my own thread to such workings, I did this once when the front power car failed on a Padd - Cardiff run and it was reversed via this method.

 

Which brings to mind the most memorable HST trip I made. In the 1980's the only Sunday morning train from Glasgow to London was from Queen Street - KIngs Cross, the Sunday we took it the route was: QS  Edinburgh Waverly but reversing on the Gorgie Junction triangle before Waverly. The train then went to Carstairs - Carlise over the Tyne Valley line. It then reversed again at Newcastle by the simple expedient of running in to Newcastle over the High Level Bridge and leaving over the King Edward Bridge. Although much of this run was within my definition of an InterCity route other parts were not.

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  • MyRule1 changed the title to Intercity 125 / HST use on Minor / Branch Lines - at London Termini
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On 11/10/2021 at 15:01, phil-b259 said:

In London, the only places which have hosted HSTs are Waterloo, Paddington, Euston, St Pancras and Kings Cross.

 

They have never been seen at Liverpool Street, Marylebone or any of the other ex Souther region termi.

Ive taken a scheduled HST service from Marylebone.

 

FGW used it for diversions.

 

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On 12/10/2021 at 09:01, Grizz said:

Not likely to be any HSTs on the Southern 3rd rail electrified routes unless they are fitted with Short Swing Link bogies. Even though there are examples of occasional loco hauled MK3s on the Central Division.

Dont know about the bogies, but FGW have run all the way up the LSW from Exeter to Waterloo on diversions.

Plenty of videos on Youtube, at exotic destinations as Salisbury, Basingstoke, Wimbledon… c2013 iirc.

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On 12/10/2021 at 15:07, pete_mcfarlane said:

Wasn't there a regular London - Grimsby/Cleethorpes working n the 1980s that used the branch from Lincoln? 

I think it appeared in a BBC News item in the 1980s, interviewing a chap who commuted from Grimsby-Kings Cross daily.  The 125 is probably responsible for creating more long distance commuters than the motorway network.

 

@Ramblin Richis 100% right about origins of the Pembroke Dock branch.  Before the Manobier crossing was finally modernised in the 1990s, in summer you would get the fascinating site of a 125 pulling up to closed gates, the guard getting out to open them and the driver easing forward into the station, looking both ways like he was pulling out of a side road.  At the two AOCLs, they also had to stop and check before proceeding; I guess the 800s on the "PCE" must have to do the same now.

 

Two minor comments relating to West Wales HST services; Fishguard had TWO HST services daily, exactly 12 hours apart (0150 and 1350), making it arguably the most regular train service in Britain.  The 1700(?) departure from Paddington was the through service to Milford Haven and for a long time ran non-stop to Bristol Parkway.  I think it averaged something like 111mph making it for many years the fastest point-to-point diesel service in the world. 

 

I will miss standing by an open window of a 125 climbing Cockett bank; when normality was a Class 101/108 DMU exiting the 20mph Landore curve and crawling to the top at that speed in second gear, hearing the Valentas at about half-power as you accelerated to the top (1 in 52 from a 20mph start), throttling back before entering the tunnel at perhaps 50mph - you knew you were riding on a racehorse.

 

Here's a 125 at Fishguard in 1986 (taken on my little 110 camera of the time - remember them?):

DSC00633.JPG.bad62b158045132900d1cb06f2dc7e00.JPG

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17 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I think it appeared in a BBC News item in the 1980s, interviewing a chap who commuted from Grimsby-Kings Cross daily.  The 125 is probably responsible for creating more long distance commuters than the motorway network.

 

Going slightly OT I think you are spot on regrading the HST being the train that created more long distance commuting than not only the motorways but just about anything else in Bitain.  I regularly commuted (from Reading) to London with three companions who had joined teh train at its starting point - Cheltenham (they kept a seat for me at Reading which helped ;) ) and I knew folk who commuted between London and York as well as Bristol or Cardiff and London.  I would put good money on the growth of Didcot being very much down to HSTs putting it within easy commuting distance of London and teh same can of course be said of Peterborough.

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Summer Saturdays only Glasgow-Scarborough service via Edinburgh & ECML reversing at York (rather than the WCML & Carlisle-Leeds which would have avoided reversal at York) back in the 1990s. Also the MML Saturdays-only Scarborough-St Pancras service.
 

HSTs have also been up the Bishop Auckland and Weardale branches on excursions several times.

 

Richard T

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22 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Two minor comments relating to West Wales HST services; Fishguard had TWO HST services daily, exactly 12 hours apart (0150 and 1350), making it arguably the most regular train service in Britain.  The 1700(?) departure from Paddington was the through service to Milford Haven and for a long time ran non-stop to Bristol Parkway.  I think it averaged something like 111mph making it for many years the fastest point-to-point diesel service in the world. 


Obviously timetables changed over the years but my recollection is that in the early 1990s, the Milford Haven was usually the 1730 ex-Paddington with the 1600, 1700, and 1800 departures being Swansea trains, none of which called at Reading. At least the 1800, being the Red Dragon Pullman, didn’t stop at Swindon either so was non-stop to Bristol Parkway and must have been tight behind the 1745 to Bristol Temple Meads by Wootton Bassett (which called at Reading, Didcot and Swindon). The Railway Performance Society has the fastest Paddington to Bristol Parkway run yet recorded as just forty seconds over the hour by an HST in 1980 (an average speed of just under 112mph). That is two and a half minutes quicker than the fastest yet recorded class 800 run forty years later.

Edited by Western Aviator
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22 minutes ago, Western Aviator said:


Obviously timetables changed over the years but my recollection is that in the early 1990s, the Milford Haven was usually the 1730 ex-Paddington with the 1600, 1700, and 1800 departures being Swansea trains, none of which called at Reading. At least the 1800, being the Red Dragon Pullman, was non-stop to Bristol Parkway and must have been tight behind the 1745 to Bristol Temple Meads by Wootton Bassett (which called at Reading, Didcot and Swindon). The Railway Performance Society has the fastest Paddington to Bristol Parkway run yet recorded as just forty seconds over the hour by an HST in 1980 (an average speed of just under 112mph). That is two and a half minutes quicker than the fastest yet recorded class 800 run forty years later.

However fast the run to Parkway, it probably wasn't fast enough for a colleague at Waterloo, who upon finding the Windsor lines were in a mess one evening, legged it on the Bakerloo to Paddington, and jumped on the first train he saw. Standing all the way to Parkway was not what he needed when trying to get home to Bracknell....

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