A look at the Hawksworths

[Bulleidnutter]

In the current Hornby Magazine. There is a photo of 18000 I think. Hauling a rake of Hawksworths. Its a black and white photo but the coaches are definetly inether Choc n Cream or Blood and Custard.

[dibber25]

They'll be blood and custard.

[Pennine MC]

... 18000 ... Hauling a rake of Hawksworths. Its a black and white photo but the coaches are definetly inether Choc n Cream or Blood and Custard.

 

Must be the blue and grey ones then. Has the loco got double arrows?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

Must be the blue and grey ones then. Has the loco got double arrows?

 

 

 

ooh you are naughty ... but I liked that one

[brushman47544]

In the current Hornby Magazine. There is a photo of 18000 I think. Hauling a rake of Hawksworths. Its a black and white photo but the coaches are definetly inether Choc n Cream or Blood and Custard.

Clever... Was this (see my bold in the quote) a deliberate typo to confuse or tease us? Should it be "in either" (i.e. one of C+C or B+C) or "neither" (i.e. something else as Mike and I read it and so perhaps Blue & Grey).

 

Send out the inquisition...

[JZ]

There were a few Hawksworths still on the system much later than the sixties. The view of the brake third was taken at Westbury in PW use. The pair of blue full brakes were photographed in Newcastle in 1991. I often saw these vans in the 1980's when I lived in Manchester on the late night newspaper train (remember them) from Manchester Victoria.

 

Personally I have two conversions ready to start. The first being the dynanometer car, ex all third 796, another chocolate and cream vehicle that remained so until December 1980 when it became Derby research Test Car 4. Perfect to put behind the Heljan Lion when it arrives. Just to add to the livery debate 796 entered service in 1947 in chocolate and cream with GWR and crest markings.

 

The second is to make the 12 wheel sleeper using ex Bill Bedford/Comet sides and 247 Developments bogies. Winter modelling time is here

 

MW

 

I remember a cover of Modern railways back in the '60s that had a picture of the Dyno' car behing Lion at Bath Spa.

[Bulleidnutter]

I shall repost to avoid even more confusion.

 

Page 106-107 of November Hornby Mag is a picture of 18100 approaching Iver in Early black with silver lining with large cycling lion. Behind the loco is at least 5 Hawksworths. Being shot in 1952 I'm thinking the coaches will be in Blood and Custard. But as I said earlier it is a black and white photo.

[talyllyn1]

Having recently bought a CK, I've modified the curtains as Brian Kirby suggests in post 315.

In my case, I've removed the 2nd class all together, and slimmed down the curtains in 1st class so they just show at the window edges - looks much better. I've since been trawling through all my reference books and found a colour shot of a maroon Hawksworth 2nd class window with what looks a dirty, creamy pale yellow set of curtains barely showing at the window edges.

I've also noticed that in all the photos I can find the toilet windows are translucent frosted glass, not the opaque white that Hornby depicts. Does anyone know for certain that any of the Hawksworths had white toilet windows? If not it looks like the white can be removed in the same way as the curtains (I used meths on a cotton bud) and I'll be "frosting" the back of the glazing with fine emery paper.

[BSG75]

Hi, could someone please very kindly post a close-up picture of the underframe dynamo ? Mine has borken off.......or just come unglued ? Cheers !

[Garry D100]

Just had an email from Hattons, the BR crimson and cream Hawksworth Corridor 3rd is now in stock and I guess will be elsewhere now or soon.

[Adrock]

Well I must say these coaches look excellent. Hoping to pick a C and C brake composite from my local model shop this morning. I have 2 Bachmann collett's, a brake and a corridor composite with which I plan to run it with as a secondary express. I appreciate that there will be a difference in quality, but has anyone matched up these 2 coach types? I haven't seen any mention of this on here.

[Adrock]

Well, pretty good actually if anyone's interested! I picked a Brake Third up today, its a superb model. Picture shows the Hawksworth Brake third, a Collett Third and a Collett Brake Composite forming a secondary express on my Cambrian layout. Motive power is a Bachmann Collett Goods, in black with a Honby Dean Goods 3,000 gal tender body on a Mainly Trains chasis. Apologies the lighting is not as good as it could be.

[brushman47544]

I've just received my Maroon Full Brake and found small polystyrene inserts in the corridor connections to keep them from getting bent in transit. Well done Hornby...

[The Stationmaster]

I've just received my Maroon Full Brake and found small polystyrene inserts in the corridor connections to keep them from getting bent in transit. Well done Hornby...

 

Yes, mine also had those - so that was one out of 13, including others which came out subsequently (but fingers are crossed for the remaining two I have on order). On all the rest I have put in the gangway shields in the hope they might tease the gangways back into shape.

 

[craigwelsh]

I've just received my Maroon Full Brake and found small polystyrene inserts in the corridor connections to keep them from getting bent in transit. Well done Hornby...

Yes I mentioned those a couple of pages back.. See what happens when you eventually get them out of the ends though, they go back to being a bit wobbly!

 

I don't understand why Hornby didn't use normal plastic on these (or avoid making them overlength) as they don't bend in the right direction anyway.

[Dogmatix]

Are the NEM coupler pockets on the Hawksworths mounted on close-coupling cams, as with the Maunsells?

 

If so, are Roco-style couplers supplied?

 

If so, are they the long-shanked versions as supplied with the Maunsells, or are they standard Roco couplers?

 

I note on the pictures at the top of this thread that the corridor connecting bellows protrude over the buffers, is that so? How does this affect close-coupling? I don't see how proper buffer-to-buffer close coupling can be accomplished with over-sized corridor connections in the way.

[Bernard Lamb]

 

 

I note on the pictures at the top of this thread that the corridor connecting bellows protrude over the buffers, is that so? How does this affect close-coupling? I don't see how proper buffer-to-buffer close coupling can be accomplished with over-sized corridor connections in the way.

Nor can I.

The eternal problem with UK outline stock and coupling compatability at it's worst. Fit a Modeller's Mecca connector and you solve the distortion problem, but do not achieve buffer to buffer close coupling. Try to couple up a Hawksworth to a Bachmann Mk1 BG and whatever you do in the way of mix and match, you end up with a compromise. That is if you are lucky enough to hit on a combination that actually works. I am reluctant to take a saw to the moulded connectors on a vehicle that cost getting near to £30, but it is looking as though that is the only solution.

Bernard

[JZ]

Now I have my full set of Hawksworth's, I have decided to remove curtains from the 2nd/3rd class compartments. Taking them apart was easy. I used IPA on a cotton bud and applied a little pressure, I found it took about 60sec per curtain. First two coaches go well, then I get to the third. It has just taken 35min to remove 6 curtains from this one . OK, the result is woth it. But why the difference?

[Dogmatix]

I have just received two Hornby Hawksworths ('blood & custard'). They look very fine indeed, but are let down by the corridor connections and coupler spacing.

 

The corridor connections are made of a soft plastic. I can see no reason for doing this. They are flexible sideways, but not in-and-out, and are subject to warping. One coach had packaging inserts to protect from damage in transit, but the corridor connections are still slightly out of shape at the sides. The other coach had none, and the corridor connections are warped. If I recall correctly, the Airfix Staniers suffered from this problem, too - does no-one ever learn? Solid plastic connectors would have been far better.

 

The corridor connections also stick out too far. If they were sprung to move along the coach axis, this would be alright, but they aren't, so it isn't. Putting two Hawksworths together (without the couplings) results in an unsightly buffer gap.

 

On to the couplings. Like the Maunsell coaches, NEM pockets are mounted on close-coupling mechanics; small tension-hook couplers and long-shank Roco couplers are provided. The tension-hook couplers keep the coaches too far apart. The long-shank Roco couplers also leave a gap of about 1mm between corridor connections. The corridor connections prevent standard shank Roco couplers from coupling.

 

I removed the worst-warped corridor connection, and tried again with standard Roco couplers. This time they connected, but only by partially compressing the buffers. The result was buffer locking on curves. Great. Hornby did a fine job on close-couplers on the Maunsells but have messed it up here.

 

I also tried with a long shank Roco in one coach and a standard shank Roco in the other, with the corridor connection still off; the result was an improvement, but still with a gap between buffers.

 

The solution will have to be to cut the plug tips off standard Roco couplers and glue them into the NEM pockets at the right position to couple with buffers just touching, but not compressing.

 

The corridor connections will have to be replaced (I can't see cutting them working), but I do not know what with. Perhaps I can find something suitable from old coaches. Any Ideas?

[coachmann]

One trick to to fit a Roco coupling at one end and couple it to a coach with the longer Hornby-Roco coupling. I cannot claim credit for this as the idea came from friend Bob Treacher at Alton Model Centre.

[craigwelsh]

The corridor connections will have to be replaced (I can't see cutting them working), but I do not know what with. Perhaps I can find something suitable from old coaches. Any Ideas?

Rather than chopping up old coaches you'd probably be better with something whitemetal from 247 developments/Comet or MJT depending on who does the best looking British Stardard suspended gangway. Most suitable plastic donors are either moulded on or not very good. The Stanier coaches don't show the issue with warping as badly as they were supplied with the retracted and end boarded connector fitted.

 

I do wonder if the bloke making those connectors was shown a drawing of a fully extended one on flat ended stock instead of bow ended? It might account for some of the extra length though they have too many folds anyway.

[Adrian Wintle]

Rather than chopping up old coaches you'd probably be better with something whitemetal from 247 developments/Comet or MJT depending on who does the best looking British Stardard suspended gangway. Most suitable plastic donors are either moulded on or not very good. The Stanier coaches don't show the issue with warping as badly as they were supplied with the retracted and end boarded connector fitted.

 

An option I've used is the MJT working corridor connectors.

 

The retracted and boarded Stanier gangways are fine, but the extended replacements that came with the later runs of the coaches tend to be pre-warped and seem to have shrunk duing cooling - I find they need modification to fit the coaches.

 

Adrian

[craigwelsh]

Now I have my full set of Hawksworth's, I have decided to remove curtains from the 2nd/3rd class compartments. Taking them apart was easy. I used IPA on a cotton bud and applied a little pressure, I found it took about 60sec per curtain. First two coaches go well, then I get to the third. It has just taken 35min to remove 6 curtains from this one . OK, the result is woth it. But why the difference?

My brake third took a few minutes per curtain too, thankfully there were only the 6 on it! Good luck to anyone who needs to remove them from a rake!

[Captain Kernow]

Taking them apart was easy

Please excuse me if this has already been explained, but has someone already spelt out the dismantling procedure in easy-to-understand steps?

[robertcwp]

Please excuse me if this has already been explained, but has someone already spelt out the dismantling procedure in easy-to-understand steps?

There are lugs underneath at each corner on that hold body to chassis. These are part of the glazing moulding. There are also lugs half way along each side.

 

Put the vehicle upside down, say in a loco cradle.

 

With a small screwdriver push gently on the lug at the corner just behind the buffer. Push sideways towars the centreline of the vehicle. At the same time push gently on the buffer shank - don't push the stepboards or you will breake them. The chassis should then part from the body. Do this at each corner.

 

Lastly, slide fingernail between chassis and side and work towards the middle, which should spring the body off of the lugs at the midpoint. I have found that you only need to do one side.

 

Watch out for various BFO issues (ie Bits Falling Off). Each bogie has a step at each corner. One or two of these were not glued in properly and have fallen off mine. As mentioned above, the stepboards are not particularly strong, though nowhere near as flimsy as those on the Hornby Staniers. Don't press on the glazing or you will pop it out. Also, some of the underframe detail can break if not handled gently.

 

When reassembling, make sure to get body and chassis the correct way round. This is easy to get wrong on the full brake - look for the guard's doors and matching lower steps on the chassis.

 

To part bogie from chassis, slide screwdriver in beween at side and gently prise off.