Planning new GWR? layout

[GWR Kevin]

Hello All,

 

After a 40+ lull of model railways (since being a kid making one with my father) I have retired at 50 after selling my IT business and decided to get back into the railway hobby and make a model layout.

 

As an introduction I feel I am a competent modeller (ship, aircraft, AFV modelling), model engineer (Both CNC and lathe/milling) and computer/digital.
I now live in near Falmouth in Cornwall after moving here from Berkshire and am interested in making a "Cornish" GWR? layout from the golden age of 20/30's in P4 gauge with full DCC control.
I have no locos/rolling stock and wish to enjoy kit/scratch building my own as I am familiar with soldering and photo.

 

I have an existing dedicated workshop with strong base units all around which is approx 7780 x 3960mm (25.5ft x 13ft) but I wish to make the layout probably an L shape along a long/short wall keeping the other walls for worktop space.

I can make the depth of the layout approx 1m or slightly more so would like preferably to provide a hidden loop at the back for continuous running.

 

My father used to work as a youngster on the SDJR so that and/or GWR flavour is preferred but I don't necessarily want an exact replica track layout but would like to include the following features:

 

Main station and adjacent village - Cornish Riviera trains?
Cornish type fishing arbour - Pilchards to London?
Countryside with bridge over river/stream
Fiddle yard

 

I will probably scratch build my own scenery as I am used to doing this for many years of historical wargaming and have a 3D printer which I am interested in using for various details, etc

 

I was thinking of proceeding by:

 

1) Roughing out a track layout perhaps with assistance of what seem to be very helpful forums
2) Buying a simple goods wagon to assemble (plastic top with brass P4 chassis) - recommendations?

3) Buying a small loco to practice my assembly skills - Brassmaster or similar springs to mind but recommendations welcome

4) Buying the basic bones of a DCC system (I am interested in using iTrains for control with some form of manual dial throttle (ESU?)

5) Buying and assembling a simple say 1.5m test board/points track in P4 just to trial assembling/configuring and laying track, ballast and signal/point control with DCC

 

Once I have then accomplished the above then I feel I will be in a good position having the skills necessary to start on the real base boards, etc for full layout.

 

I don't know if there is much of a club scene in my area (near Falmouth) but obviously that will be good for advice and also to contribute back as I can.

 

I have found lots of online resources for DCC, iTrains, loco/scenery building but its a minefield for track planning so I am at this stage asking if anyone can point me in the direction of some interesting track layouts which may suit some/all of the above so I can get my head around this and sketch things out before then drawing something up in Anyrail for only group feedback in more detail. Recommendations of books/websites also welcome.

 

Thank you VERY much if you read this far for reaching the end of my post and you comments/feedback are most welcome.

[jamespetts]

One thing to bear in mind: P4 requires generous curve radii - much more generous than 00. An L shaped layout inherently requires a 90 degree bend. Achieving this in P4 is likely to require much (and possibly all) of the length of the layout (unless the room is very large indeed) to be taken up with the curve.

 

For this reason, fine scale layouts generally tend to be end to end or gently curving ovals.

 

Check the curve radii and your available space mathematically to see what will work for you.

[MPR]

Hi Kevin - and welcome to RMWEB.

If you haven’t done so already, I’d recommend you join the Scalefour Society. The forum is accessible in part to non-members.

https://www.scalefour.org

There is an area group that is in your area -

https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=921&p=6579&hilit=watermouth#p6579

Starting with a wagon conversion is an excellent idea - this can be as simple as swapping out the wheels sets on a ready made wagon with no further modifications, but some form of suspension is usually recommended - MJT W irons plus a Parkside kit is a suitable next step up.

If you want to go for something more sophisticated, have a look at http://website.rumneymodels.co.uk

For track, a couple of metres of C&L flexi will get you started. Points can be tackled later.

https://www.clfinescale.co.uk

For a first locomotive, I’d recommend rewheeling a diesel loco - this can be done very quickly indeed with wheel sets from https://www.ultrascale.uk (long lead time, very high quality) or on shorter timescales, from http://alangibsonworkshop.com

Do reach out for specific advice, there a lot of P4 modellers on this forum!

If you want to tackle a locomotive chassis go to https://www.highlevelkits.co.uk/chassis

For full locomotive kits, look at http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/gwr_kits.htm - these are sophisticated and uncompromising designs, but are extremely well executed and may be accessible from the off if you have good soldering skills and patience.

Good luck on the journey!
Regards

Martin

[simonmcp]

Hi Kevin, there are two model railway clubs in the Falmouth area. Sadly the two members who were pioneers of P4/S4 modelling passed away quite a while ago. The Cornwall Railway Society has a huge amount of information and photos of the Cornish (and Devon) railway network. Ian Rice is a name you may become familiar with as he models (amongst many other things) Cornish layouts in finescale.

Simon

[drduncan]

Templor is a useful package for finescale track design and there is an active user group online plus thread on rmweb. 

 

For track plan inspiration try Penzance before rebuilding, St Erth to Hayle (branch to st Ives for fish and passengers, mainline London to Penzance viaduct over Hayle estuary and at Hayle junction with freight only harbour branch. 
 

NB you’ll get away with tighter curves if needed in EM - a practical compromise…..

 

Duncan

Edited October 16, 2021 by drduncan

[drduncan]

I’d second buying a diesel and converting it to EM/P4 as desired for track testing. A WR diesel hydraulic perhaps and I’d definitely order drop in replacement wheels from ultra scale .  
 

D

[Siberian Snooper]

It's possible to get P4 curves down to 3 foot radius, with gauge widening and some slop in the chassis. Tim Venton's, Clutton roundy roundy has 3 foot curves at each end.

 

 

[The Johnster]

Trackplans are as you say a minefield, and it is best to be inspired by real life examples.  These need not necessarily be restricted to Cornish examples if your proposed layout is not to be a model of an actual location (if it is, of course, the design work is done for you and you simply recreate what was there and learn how it was operated).  You don't say if you are considering a terminus or through station, though an L shape suggests a terminus.  The obvious Cornish example is Penzance, but Newquay might serve your purpose as well.  Have a look at Plymouth Millbay, Pembroke Dock, Milford Haven, or Neyland for other GW termini, thought the latter two are a bit distorted by geography.  And of course, Falmouth!  Adaptations of these, with more spatial control over how the main line dissapates into docks and sidings beyond the station, might also be useful inspiration.

 

Also, have a look at a well known Cyril Freezer track plan called 'Minories', a proven performer and concept  This is a terminus originally desgined to represent an urban terminus for suburban services (think Broad Street in London or Moor St in Birmingham) but the plan can be adapted to serve as a main line terminus, and there is no reason that the tunnel entrance cannot be moved further out and a goods yard put in on one side of the main lines while there is a harbour branch on the other.  Penzance, with the retaining wall and road behind it, has similarities to this concept, though here the harbour becomes the Newlyn branch.  Minories features an approach 'station throat' with turnouts arranged so that there are no reverse curves, which will be a boon for a P4 layout using scale couplings. 

 

I drew out a plan for a friend years ago who wanted a branch line with KIngs and Castles that wasn't Kingswear, and called it St Notives.  It was basically St Ives adapted for big engines with a harbour in front of the station instead of the beach, as if the branch had terminated in the next bay along, with a short tunnel through the Pen Olva rocks providing the scenic break into the fiddle.  Loco turning faclities were assumed to be off-scene where the real station actually sits at the western end of Porthminster Bay.  The goods yard was in the vicinity of the lifeboat station and the church, and the harbour branch was a spur off the run around loop.  He never completed it, lost interest, but I still think if was a sound concept; worked from a offscene junction call St Noterth with a B set shuttle hauled by a small prairie, and with the usual pannier hauled pickup goods, it was enlivened by a daily fish train to Bristol/London, a job for a 4-6-0, and a through portion from a down Paddington, perhaps slipped at St Noterth, hauled by whatever St Noterth has on hand, perhaps a Bulldog for your period.  Summer Saturdays were of course all paths taken, with a full train from Paddington, and as many reliefs and specials as you like, hauled by anything with a vacuum brake. 

 

Sharp curves on the harbour branch were an excuse for a 1361,