railroadbill Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) I bought these 2 coaches cheaply some months ago, for a Scandinavian branch line project (actually I wanted a train similar to one on the Mariager-Handest line). They will need small changes and repainting. The other option was to try and buy some difficult to get hold of current (and expensive) models that would still have needed altering, so I went for the cheap route. They came in good condition boxes. I had another look at then recently, and the boxes have British Trix on them. The box states that "Trix offers a large selection of British and continental locos and rolling stock". It's a long time ago but I can't remember seeing any British range Trix other than the BR stock they did, and I can't find a reference online to these. (German etc. Trix being a separate range). So the question is, were these part of the British Trix range, or were they just put in spare boxes, perhaps? I didn't buy them to collect, they obviously have very little value, but just as a matter of interest. They are nicely detailed coaches and very free running. The problem is the wheel flanges are very deep and they bounce over the frogs on Peco code 100 points, so they will need to be changed. Edited October 17, 2021 by railroadbill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locomad2 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Mentioned in the "History of Trix" book on page 311 that trix imported from Liliput a range of continental outline models about 1963. However no reference to the boxes they came in. Also they imported some German trix apparently range was not popular and discontinued. Only exception was the breakdown crane this I have seen both new and 2nd hand 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 They are a pair of 'thunder boxes' (obviously referring to their comfort while travelling!*) and obviously of German or Austrian manufacture. AFAIK British Trix had divided completely from Trix Express at this time. * I understand that, apart from the noise from a metal body on four wheels, they also inflicted wooden seats on their unfortunate occupants. I can speak personally for the Italian version - on bogies (usually - there were four and six wheel versions), but bad enough! Originally these were third class, but were upgraded to second on the abolition of third by the simple expedient of sticking a '2' on the door. I did my best to avoid them, but it wasn't always possible. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted October 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 18, 2021 Roco do better versions of these "Donnerbüchsen" in HO. I don't know of Lilliput (Austria) ever producing these, though they may have done the Austrian equivalent — the "Spantenwagen". 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 These would have been German Trix products distributed in the UK by British Trix. The British Outline range wasn't on its own big enough and so was bulked out with some continental models. Back in the 50s and 60s there was a much wider constituency for operating H0 or 00 'trains of the world' on the same track. Triang had their (nominally H0) Transcontinental range marketed in the UK; Hornby had French 'Acho' as well as British 'Dublo' although the former was not generally sold in the UK; the Playcraft range had Jouef items of French outline in the UK range. The last examples of this were the odd continental Lima items in the UK range in the late 70s and early 80s; the Hornby Railroad Breakdown Crane is an ex-Lima model and is probably the last 'continental' item to be offered in a GB range along with the (ex-Liliput) Plasser & Theurer track maintenance vehicles that Bachmann periodically sell in the Branchline range. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 (edited) Thanks for all of the above, I was puzzled that what was obviously German Trix was in a British Trix box. On 17/10/2021 at 23:03, locomad2 said: Mentioned in the "History of Trix" book on page 311 that trix imported from Liliput a range of continental outline models about 1963. However no reference to the boxes they came in. Also they imported some German trix apparently range was not popular and discontinued. Only exception was the breakdown crane this I have seen both new and 2nd hand Strangely neither model (which both have the same design of underframe) have a makers name or reference moulded on. So could be either Liliput or Trix. Now that sounds an interesting book... On 18/10/2021 at 14:55, Il Grifone said: They are a pair of 'thunder boxes' (obviously referring to their comfort while travelling!*) and obviously of German or Austrian manufacture. AFAIK British Trix had divided completely from Trix Express at this time. * I understand that, apart from the noise from a metal body on four wheels, they also inflicted wooden seats on their unfortunate occupants. I can speak personally for the Italian version - on bogies (usually - there were four and six wheel versions), but bad enough! Originally these were third class, but were upgraded to second on the abolition of third by the simple expedient of sticking a '2' on the door. I did my best to avoid them, but it wasn't always possible. The Danish 4 wheeled coaches that I want to alter these to represent have wooden bodies and leather seats. The ones I've travelled on on preserved lines are reasonably quiet and comfortable, but they are only running at preserved railway low speeds. The bigger loading gauge does give more room inside as well. The passenger coach model does have the right number of windows, the ends of the roof need to curve down and the rivets should be sanded off. Then needs to be teak colour. The brake van is mostly ok but needs to have the body sides extended instead of the rear balcony, just pieces of plasticard. After a lot of searching I did find some really nice 4 wheel teak coaches online (made by Hobby Trade) on a Danish shop's web site) but they still weren't a total match and were very expensive, quite apart from the problems in actually getting them sent to the UK. It seemed a better proposition to buy these cheap ones to work on. Edited October 20, 2021 by railroadbill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) The History of Trix book that we have is in the New Cavendish series, the same series that the Hornby Companion Series, and Pat Hammond’s The Story of Rovex books are in. It can be a bit hard to find these days though… https://onlineshop.oxfam.org.uk/the-history-of-trix-model-railways-in-britain/product/HD_300518292?pscid=ps_ggl Edited October 21, 2021 by Ruffnut Thorston Photo and link added 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) That's a bargain! The last one I saw they wanted sixty quid for it! This is a first edition too! There's also 10% off for a first order! I'm tempted, but unfortunately am out of the country.... SWMBO said I have too many books already! Edited October 21, 2021 by Il Grifone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 Interesting looking book there, Ruffnut Thorston. Looks a good reference. Know what you mean, David, i'm steeling myself to sort out some books to take to Oxfam - (really so I can make some bookshelf space for more books....) 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sncf231e Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 On 17/10/2021 at 19:25, railroadbill said: I bought these 2 coaches cheaply some months ago, for a Scandinavian branch line project (actually I wanted a train similar to one on the Mariager-Handest line). They will need small changes and repainting. The other option was to try and buy some difficult to get hold of current (and expensive) models that would still have needed altering, so I went for the cheap route. The coaches are made by Liliput in the seventies, catalogue number 27000 (passenger) and 27100 (baggage). They made the same two coaches in a Swedish (SJ) livery (catalogue number 27080 and 27180) which would maybe be easier to use on your Scandinavian branch line. Whether these coaches were ever sold in Trix boxes I do not know. Regards Fred 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) On consideration*, I realised that the German coaches have Liliput couplings. The give away here is that the coupling is secured by a circular dual purpose spring which serves both as centring spring and to hold the thing in place. Ingenious! (possibly not on all vehicles?) * By chance, I'm currently restoring a Liliput CIWL sleeping car that has suffered enemy action. One headstock/steps unit has been chopped off from its bogie (a previous owner - not guilty!) and the other damaged. The gold lettering is going to require redoing as well, having been badly rubbed. I was thinking of a gold paint pen - it's raised detail not a transfer, but has anyone any better ideas? There is rather large wet obstacle to running Swedish coaches in Denmark. Yes, I know there are ferries.... On the other hand just replace the SJ with DSB and the job is done. The red is much the same colour and the other lettering is too small to read anyway (at least at my age!). Edited October 21, 2021 by Il Grifone 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainwright1 Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Il Grifone said: That's a bargain! The last one I saw they wanted sixty quid for it! This is a first edition too! There's also 10% off for a first order! I'm tempted, but unfortunately am out of the country.... SWMBO said I have too many books already! SIxty quid was the original retail price. And that was quite a few years ago !!! All the best Ray Edited October 21, 2021 by wainwright1 Extra info. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 If we didn’t already have a copy…… We do have a good model railways reference library…of course, it’s not in the same place as I am mostly these days! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted October 22, 2021 Author Share Posted October 22, 2021 21 hours ago, sncf231e said: The coaches are made by Liliput in the seventies, catalogue number 27000 (passenger) and 27100 (baggage). They made the same two coaches in a Swedish (SJ) livery (catalogue number 27080 and 27180) which would maybe be easier to use on your Scandinavian branch line. Whether these coaches were ever sold in Trix boxes I do not know. Regards Fred Thank you, Fred. They look rather good in that livery. I've added the catalogue numbers to my "things to look for" list! Didn't know that Trix also sold Liliput products. More recent Liliput made after they were taken over by Bachmann is very well detailed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, wainwright1 said: SIxty quid was the original retail price. And that was quite a few years ago !!! All the best Ray True and I suppose being out of print raises the price for a second hand copy. It was available through one of those reprint subscription companies once, but I missed out. I paid £18 for my Dublo volume back in the early eighties (I suppose inflation takes that over £60 in today's weak currency), but they did throw in a 'Pugh & Co.' wagon - the one Hornby gave away with a new loco. It's stashed away somewhere in the hope it might be valuable 'one day'.... Apparently my thought of, "About a fiver" was correct. https://picclick.it/Hornby-OO-gauge-2-x-Pugh-and-Co-174983706221.html Edited October 22, 2021 by Il Grifone 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 1E BoY Posted October 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, railroadbill said: Didn't know that Trix also sold Liliput products. The connection between Trix and Liliput is well known and dates back to 1958 when Ernst Rozsa set up a model railway import business Miniature Construction Ltd in North London to import Liliput models from his native Austria. His company assembled some of the Austrian models in the UK. He persuaded Liliput to make an 00 model of the Class AL1 E3000 (later Class 81) for them which was released in 1960. Rozsa joined Trix in 1961 and took with him the E3000 model which was reintroduced as part of the Trix range in 1963. Until the arrival of the LNER A3 4--6-2 in 1968, this was the only true 4mm OO scale locomotive in the Trix range. From 1965, Rozsa used his Liliput connections to reinvent the Trix range which was struggling. The first locomotive to be designed by Rozsa and tooled by Liliput was the Class 52 ‘Western’ diesel. Despite Liliput’s previous OO model for the British market, the Trix ‘Western’ was produced to 3.8mm scale, half way between HO and OO in line with Trix policy at the time. OO scale was finally adopted for the final range of LNER pacific locomotives of Peppercorn’s A2 Class and Gresley’s A3 and A4 classes. Highly regarded on their release, the belated move to OO was, however, too late to stop closure. Following the closure of the Trix fatory in Wrexham in 1973. Factory Manager Ernst Rozsa salvaged the remaining model railway spares and stock and set up a mail order operation run by his wife, Berwyn Hobbies, to supply Trix enthusiasts. Ernst Rozsa went on to set up Liliput UK to recommence production from a new industrial estate that had been developed on the site of the former Bala railway station in mid Wales. This operated as the KIVOLI centre using the first two letters of each of the imported ranges Kibri, Vollmer and Liliput. The centre included a visitor centre and shop including exhibition layouts which not surprisingly concentrated on the products available from the adjacent retail area. Kibri and Vollmer manufactured continental outline plastic building kits. Much of the former British Trix tooling was acquired by Liliput in Austria and batch production of components for some items continued with final assembly being undertaken at Bala. Other tooling remained in Bala and it was this that was sold eventually to Dapol. Liliput, based in Vienna, was sold in 1990 to model company Herpa and within a short period of time to Bachmann Europe Plc. This is why the A4 (although considerably improved) and the Whisky wagons went on to be produced by Bachmann. In 1996, Dapol released some models of the Class 124 Trans Pennine diesel multiple unit. Although the company owned the body tooling, the chassis tooling remained in Austria. It was therefore, necessary to utilise the company’s Class 150 chassis tooling to fit the Dapol produced body. The process was repeated in 2000. Dapol disposed of the spares and tooling to the Trix Twin Railway Collectors Association around 2003 as mentioned in the E3000 thread. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 Thanks for the very in-depth info, 1E BoY, Trix certainly had a very involved and interesting history over its various eras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted October 23, 2021 Author Share Posted October 23, 2021 This is where I am so far. (The red and cream coach is sitting up on one bogie, just put the parts together for the pic). Not sure what make that is, had it for ages). The class 91 is Austrian-made Liliput. I knew Fleischmann made one, but not Liliput, then saw one advertised on-line. it came from a German dealer via E-bay. Good runner. It's close (enough) but not identical to the 1928 Henschel 2-6-0T used on the MHV line. Eventually, painting the wheels and frames black may do the job. (Plus lights, cow catcher etc.) This is what I'm (very slowly) modelling. (Pic Mariager station, North Jutland, Denmark July 2017) 6 bay, 4 wheeled teak bodied end-balconied coach. The roof ends curve downwards, which is a common feature. Apart from that, the Liliput/Trix coach, while not identical, is as close as I'm likely to get. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 tFascinating! This led me to dig out my copy of 'Dankse locomotiver og motorvogne 1985-01-01' and look it up. There's a photo of HV3 at Nørresundby in 1970. She had red* wheels then and only a single headlight above the buffer beam. Her maximum speed is quoted as 60 km/h. MHVJ has several entries, starting with a splendid 0-6-0T (0C0T) ex DSB with outside Allan valvegear (good luck with that!). *I assume. Loco wheels seem to have been either black or some shade of red outside the UK. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted October 25, 2021 Author Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Il Grifone said: tFascinating! This led me to dig out my copy of 'Dankse locomotiver og motorvogne 1985-01-01' and look it up. There's a photo of HV3 at Nørresundby in 1970. She had red* wheels then and only a single headlight above the buffer beam. Her maximum speed is quoted as 60 km/h. MHVJ has several entries, starting with a splendid 0-6-0T (0C0T) ex DSB with outside Allan valvegear (good luck with that!). *I assume. Loco wheels seem to have been either black or some shade of red outside the UK. I can only go back to 1991, David. Fleischmann do (did?) an HO model of the DB class 89 0-6-0T (Prussian T3) with Allen valve gear, with the twin eccentrics, which must look really good running along, #4010/4011. Oh dear, feel an e-bay search coming on.... I've got some drawings of the DSB litra F 0-6-0T from Continental Modeller. (A number of the locos have survived, some still operating, there is one on the Nene valley which is under heavy overhaul at the moment) but as you say scratch built Allen valve gear is a rather large step to undertake... Edited October 25, 2021 by railroadbill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sncf231e Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 2 hours ago, railroadbill said: Fleischmann do (did?) an HO model of the DB class 89 0-6-0T (Prussian T3) with Allen valve gear, with the twin eccentrics, which must look really good running along, #4010/4011. Oh dear, feel an e-bay search coming on.... Märklin as well as ASTER made a gauge 1 model of the T3 with Allan valve gear; here are they both running in my garden. The ASTER model is live steam and the Allan gear is thus really operating. Regards Fred 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted October 25, 2021 Author Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) That is just...superb! [What is the version of "brown eyed girl" that plays as the theme, please?] Edited October 25, 2021 by railroadbill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 12 hours ago, railroadbill said: I can only go back to 1991, David. Fleischmann do (did?) an HO model of the DB class 89 0-6-0T (Prussian T3) with Allen valve gear, with the twin eccentrics, which must look really good running along, #4010/4011. Oh dear, feel an e-bay search coming on.... I've got some drawings of the DSB litra F 0-6-0T from Continental Modeller. (A number of the locos have survived, some still operating, there is one on the Nene valley which is under heavy overhaul at the moment) but as you say scratch built Allen valve gear is a rather large step to undertake... I have the 1980 version too (much thinner - DSB only IIRC - I'll have to dig it out). I think the shop in Turin I bought them from had closed before the 1991 version came out. I had collected a selection of Lima DSB rolling stock (including a couple of MZ diesels - a third one with a sun damaged body was acquired cheaply and was intended to provide power for a Märklin MY (the spare body for this cost 65,000 £it - more than the two Lima MZs put together). Unfortunately the bogies are a little too long and it's another project on hold....). Then we moved and the Danish layout was put on hold too! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sncf231e Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 10 hours ago, railroadbill said: [What is the version of "brown eyed girl" that plays as the theme, please?] Some 45 years ago, after playing bass guitar in a local group, I recorded at home with a Philips "Open reel tape deck" a number of songs, of that period, were I played the instruments one by one and "sang"; so a "one Man Band". A few of these recordings, including my version of Brown eyed girl, I used as background music on some videos. More can be heard (and seen) here: http://sncf231e.nl/videos-with-one-man-band-background-music/ Regards Fred 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 On 26/10/2021 at 09:16, sncf231e said: Some 45 years ago, after playing bass guitar in a local group, I recorded at home with a Philips "Open reel tape deck" a number of songs, of that period, were I played the instruments one by one and "sang"; so a "one Man Band". A few of these recordings, including my version of Brown eyed girl, I used as background music on some videos. More can be heard (and seen) here: http://sncf231e.nl/videos-with-one-man-band-background-music/ Regards Fred Thanks , Fred, I really liked that version! Some very nice models there, particularly liked the o gauge Staatspoor Beyer Peacock 871 4-4-0 with the outside cranks, but they're all good. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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