British (?) Trix

[GoingUnderground]

In the 1960s, British Trix did include various German models in their UK catalogue. The 1964 catalogue devotes quite a few pages to continental outline models, including 4 steam locos, 6 electric locos, a DMU, an EMU, ad well as continental coaches, including 2 4 wheeled ones, and some US outline stock. The continental freight wagons are mixed in with the UK outline ones. It also includes Kibri buildings, and Wiad construction kits.

 

Whether this was an attempt to pad out a rather meagre UK portfolio, or an effort to emulate Triang's Transcontinental offering is open to question. But at the time, 1964, the company was known as British Trix, and was a subsidiary of Courtaulds.

 

I don't know what arrangements were made for merchandising the continental models. They may have been bulk packed and repacked into British TRix boxes in the UK, which would explain the packaging.

 

The two coaches that you have appear to be from the 1964 catalogue. The part numbers quoted are "1970" for the "4 wheeled Passenger Coach" and "1971" for the "Parcel van". The catalogue shows them with what appears to be the usual Peco/Dublo/Trix couplings, implying that they were intended to be part of the standard British Trix range, but that may have been a cosmetic change made purely for the catalogue. 

 

 

 

The next Trix catalogue that I have is the 67/68 edition, but there was no overseas rolling stock in it.

 

So your models are probably in the correct boxes. I don't know whether they'd be sought after by Trix collectors or not. But as they're in good condition, and in the correct period boxes they might be worth a bit more than you paid for them.

 

Personally I only hack RTR stuff if it's less than perfect and unboxed, as it seems at least to me to be rather a shame to remodel or repaint something that has survived intact for over 55 years. 

[Il Grifone]

That's hardly a complete selection of European express coaches - not even just German ones!

[GoingUnderground]

11 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

That's hardly a complete selection of European express coaches - not even just German ones!

Perhaps you shouldn't assume that my photo showed all the coaches - it didn't. I was interested in showing the OP's coaches as they appeared in the catalogue, not the full range of overseas coaches, which ran to over 4 sides, compared to 2 sides for the UK outline coaches.

 

In fact there were more overseas coaches in the Trix '64 catalogue - 22 (twenty-two) including a centre coach for the Dutch EMU and a centre coach for the German DMU, that UK outline ones - 10 (ten).

 

The situation was much the same with locos where overseas outline models outnumbered UK ones.

 

There were 2 continental style signals, one Home, one Distant, but only one UK one which was a searchlight single lens type, but it did come with colour filters so the buyer could choose between Home and Distant.

 

If you look at the OP's photos of the Trix red & blue/grey boxes from that era they do say "Trix offers a large selection of British and Continental locomotives and rolling stock".

 

At 48 pages including the cover, the 1964 Trix catalogue was larger that the Triang 1964 catalogue whose 40 pages included most of the Model-land buildings and all the Minic Motorways range but not the TT range. Both are approx A4 format so I am comparing like with like. I don't have a '64 Dublo catalogue, but by then their parent company Mecccano Ltd's financial position was dire, selling out to Lines Bros in February '64. 

 

Trix was more expensive than Triang, and that even applied to the catalogues. The price on the cover of the Trix '64 catalogue was 1/9 (8 3/4p) whereas the Triang one was 1/- (5p).

 

[Il Grifone]

I was joking (hence the emojis), but even 22 coaches is far from complete, just as ten only scratches the surface of British stock.

Was the searchlight signal still the Trix Twin one with two bulbs in coloured sleeves in the base?

 

Trix catalogues were always expensive. The mid-fifties yearbooks were 2/6d, but did have a lot of extra information about railways included.

[GoingUnderground]

45 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

I was joking (hence the emojis), but even 22 coaches is far from complete, just as ten only scratches the surface of British stock.

Was the searchlight signal still the Trix Twin one with two bulbs in coloured sleeves in the base?

 

Trix catalogues were always expensive. The mid-fifties yearbooks were 2/6d, but did have a lot of extra information about railways included.

Sorry, I don't speak emoji.

 

The illustration in the '64 catalogue of the searchlight signal is different to the one used in both the '59 and 60-61-62 catalogue, but appears to be of the same product. But the earlier illustration shows 2 "boxes" as the base whereas the later one shows just the one box. I don't know if that was a deliberate omission or if the earlier illustration was also showing the lower half of the base containing the bulbs as the second "box". I suspect the latter. The product numbers changed, from "758" for the interchangeable Home & Distant to "1474". The separate Home and Distant searchlight models, "752" and "756" respectively, had been dropped. The numbering change does not indicate a change of product as everything carried through from the 1962 price list had been renumbered. For example, the 16 ton mineral wagon in bauxite red "P.607" in '62 became "1602" in the '64 catalogue. Incidentally, the "P" indicated an injection moulded body introduced in 1960, as opposed to the tinplate bodies previously used.

 

The 3 rail "Twin" track, now called Universal track gained a 1 prefix, , the "701" 7 1/4" straight becoming "1701". There was also a new 2 rail track system introduced in '64. This tended to use the same last 2 digits as the older 3 rail style track, but with a prefix of "15". Thus the 2 rail 7 1/4" straight was "1501" whilst the 3 rail was "1701" as noted above. The 2nd radius curves did not follow this numbering pattern, being "8xx" fir "Twin" and "152x" for 2 rail.

 

Locos got a more radical renumbering in '64 as separate "2 rail" versions were launched, presumably to go with the new 2 rail track. For instance the EM1 "F105" with the suffixes "B" (F105B) for Black or "G" for Green (F105G) turned into 4 different numbers F105B became 1121 with the 2 rail model being 1123, whilst F105G became 1124 and the 2 rail model 1126. I don't know the physical differences between the "Twin" and "2 rail" versions, but suspect that the 2 rail versions dispensed with the separate pick up shoes and relied instead on wipers contacting the back of the wheels. I do have an EM1 with such an arrangement, and did see a second one at the time I bought it with the same wiper pick up arrangement. I wasn't sure if they were both from the same collection and had been modified by the same person, or came ex-works with the wiper pick-ups. They were both unboxed, but it is possible that they were the "2 rail" versions.

 

Apologies for going rather O/T, but the changes made when Courtaulds took over Trix do suggest that they were serious about competing with Triang despite the problem of their scale falling between OO and H0.

[Ruffnut Thorston]

RE: Tri-ang Railways 1964 Catalogue.

 

This catalogue is famous for containing the most new items that were never made.

Whole pages of items in the Model Land, and the fairground range in the Minic Motorways range were just not made.

 

So, the page count of actually available models would be even less. 
 

But of course, most of the people reading this probably know that already! 
 

 (Apologies for the emojis. )

 

[andyman7]

23 hours ago, GoingUnderground said:

In the 1960s, British Trix did include various German models in their UK catalogue. The 1964 catalogue devotes quite a few pages to continental outline models, including 4 steam locos, 6 electric locos, a DMU, an EMU, ad well as continental coaches, including 2 4 wheeled ones, and some US outline stock. The continental freight wagons are mixed in with the UK outline ones. It also includes Kibri buildings, and Wiad construction kits.

 

Whether this was an attempt to pad out a rather meagre UK portfolio, or an effort to emulate Triang's Transcontinental offering is open to question. But at the time, 1964, the company was known as British Trix, and was a subsidiary of Courtaulds.

 

I don't know what arrangements were made for merchandising the continental models. They may have been bulk packed and repacked into British TRix boxes in the UK, which would explain the packaging.

 

The two coaches that you have appear to be from the 1964 catalogue. The part numbers quoted are "1970" for the "4 wheeled Passenger Coach" and "1971" for the "Parcel van". The catalogue shows them with what appears to be the usual Peco/Dublo/Trix couplings, implying that they were intended to be part of the standard British Trix range, but that may have been a cosmetic change made purely for the catalogue. 

 

 

 

The next Trix catalogue that I have is the 67/68 edition, but there was no overseas rolling stock in it.

 

So your models are probably in the correct boxes. I don't know whether they'd be sought after by Trix collectors or not. But as they're in good condition, and in the correct period boxes they might be worth a bit more than you paid for them.

 

Personally I only hack RTR stuff if it's less than perfect and unboxed, as it seems at least to me to be rather a shame to remodel or repaint something that has survived intact for over 55 years. 

Having dug the Matthewman Trix book out for another purpose, I note that he says that the British Trix range included a number of continental Trix items in the range from 1964-66 to try and augment what was otherwise a somewhat thin selection

[GoingUnderground]

20 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

RE: Tri-ang Railways 1964 Catalogue.

 

This catalogue is famous for containing the most new items that were never made.

Whole pages of items in the Model Land, and the fairground range in the Minic Motorways range were just not made.

 

So, the page count of actually available models would be even less. 
 

But of course, most of the people reading this probably know that already! 
 

 (Apologies for the emojis. )

 

It's worth pointing out that the reason why some of the items in the '64 Triang catalogue, especially the Model-land items and Minic buildings, were never made was that there wasn't enough interest in them from retailers/the buying public to justify making them. These are generally identifiable by the price being shown as "Available later" which was Triang's way of saying that the item wasn't in the shops when the catalogue was released and wouldn't be for some time.

Edited November 1, 2021 by GoingUnderground
correct typos

[Il Grifone]

The last Trix fibre based track was actually 'universal' rather that 'Trix only' like the earlier version and the Bakelite based stuff.

On whether 13½" radius curves count as 'universal', I'll refrain from comment.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Il Grifone

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Well it is odd that at this time when the  thread is here  I have just seen 2 European Trix 0-4-0's for sale in the same shop I bought a load of stuff from last week. 2 of these . First time I have seen a European style Trix product in the flesh so to speak

[Il Grifone]

The Trix Express equivalent/original of the British 0-4-0T.

Unlike the British version, it does bear a passing resemblance to something real - the class 80 0-6-0T.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRG_Class_80

Edited November 2, 2021 by Il Grifone

[railroadbill]

Been away from the computer for a few days so quite a lot to catch up on!

 

The class 80 is quite an attractive loco (got a Roco one which is a scale model)  and the Trix 0-4-0 tanks have a kind of, well, cuteness about them.  My take on British Trix was that when I were a lad (etc) no-one I knew had Trix, it was either Hornby Dublo or Triang.  They weren't compatible anyway, so dealing with yet another system wasn't going to work.  I associated Trix with the 0-4-0 tanks,  AC with a mechanical   reversing device, litho printed tinplate stock and the 3 rail track that let you run 2 trains together.  Then at a later stage there was an interesting range of scale locos, like the Britannia, Class 5, Hunslet  shunter etc.  advertised.  There must have been a change of track standards as I think they had coarse or finer wheels,  with a convertible type that perhaps had a removable band round the treads.  Anyway, good selection of prototypes but they wouldn't have worked on my H-D 3 rail layout, no matter how hard I thought about it. I vaguely remember the (older) Meteor dmu being advertised as well, which puzzled my father and myself as we couldn't work out what it was supposed to be.  Think it was probably just generic. 

Then there were the Liliput made LNER pacifics, the A2, A3 and A4.  The A3 was in competition with the Triang (or probably Hornby by then) A3, pros and cons with both!  By that time the H-D was boxed up anyway and 2 rail layouts for me were a long way in the future. There were some posts on the Wright writes thread recently about the Liliput pacifics, the consensus seemed to be that the bodies were good for their day but the mechanisms not so good.

Anyway that's just what I remember of Trix and how it (didn't) fit onto my layout all those years ago.

 

The story of Trix and how it started and it's history is very interesting.  A very innovative and significant product in the commercial development of model railways.

 

** I appreciate there is already a lot of in-depth information about the history of  Trix and the various products posted in this thread, but this is just what I remember of it when it was still being produced.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by railroadbill

[railroadbill]

 

On 02/11/2021 at 14:46, cypherman said:

Hi all,

Well it is odd that at this time when the  thread is here  I have just seen 2 European Trix 0-4-0's for sale in the same shop I bought a load of stuff from last week. 2 of these . First time I have seen a European style Trix product in the flesh so to speak

 

 

 

On 02/11/2021 at 15:47, Il Grifone said:

The Trix Express equivalent/original of the British 0-4-0T.

Unlike the British version, it does bear a passing resemblance to something real - the class 80 0-6-0T.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRG_Class_80

 

 

 

 

 

Following on from the Trix class 80, here's a later model of it, by Roco.  Seems to have been a popular prototype for different manufacturers.

Edited November 6, 2021 by railroadbill

[sncf231e]

The class (Baureihe) 80 was indeed popular, also in larger gauges like these two (it takes two to tango):

 

Regards

Fred

[railroadbill]

Excellent, Fred, as usual!  

( I haven't found an HO gauge T3 yet, - earlier in this thread- but there will be one out there somewhere).

Edited November 6, 2021 by railroadbill

[roythebus1]

Don't forget Trix also proposed a Brush Type 4. I don't know how far they got with that development but rememebr the Tris rep showing me the picture in the catalogue, circa 1968.

 

[Fat Controller]

22 minutes ago, roythebus1 said:

Don't forget Trix also proposed a Brush Type 4. I don't know how far they got with that development but rememebr the Tris rep showing me the picture in the catalogue, circa 1968.

 

The same catalogue had Freightliner flats and Mk 2 Pullmans. IIRC, I actually put down a deposit on a Brush with a then well-known UK retailer who had claimed they were imminent. The same claim was being made a year later...

[railroadbill]

4 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

Don't forget Trix also proposed a Brush Type 4. I don't know how far they got with that development but rememebr the Tris rep showing me the picture in the catalogue, circa 1968.

 

Guess that would have been 4mm scale by then? (Had it ever appeared of course!)  As it happens there have been a reasonable number of 47s produced in oo, when the revised Heljan and Bachmann ones arrive I make it 7....    (or should we stretch it and make it 8 with the Bachmann 57 or 9 if Heljan actually make a 48?)  

[railroadbill]

 

As the story of  Liliput and Trix became intertwined.... 

I found I had more of a collection of Liliput stock than I realised,  these are all Austrian made Liliput.  The UIC gondola with the opening doors is a nice model.

 

 

The upper model is an older Austrian made model. The later Chinese made  Bachmann Liliput are very well detailed.   This must be at least 25 years old now. 

 

Have got some other tank wagons, all Roco that I picked up cheaply, to form an oil tank train. After the discussions about Trix and  scale, it occurs to me  that, without looking too closely, it could work to have a 47 or similar pulling them round the layout as a  British train.   After all, an HO vehicle shrinks in apparent size when on a oo train....

 

 

[railroadbill]

 

Been having a lot of delayed post locally, but this has now turned up!

 

Thank you so  much Ruffnut Thorston for posting the link for this earlier in the thread.   Oxfam has some money and I now have a very interesting book!  A win win situation.

 

I have so far learnt 3 things.

1. Trix used to make cycling accessories.

2. Trix made Xacto tools under licence  as Trix-Xacto.

3. There was a British Lego company that made mouldings for Trix.

 

The company (or companies)  history is interesting.

 

 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

I’m very happy that you have got the book. 

[Il Grifone]

My first 'proper' knife was a Trix X-Acto. It beat single edged razor blades (and the modern Chinese clones), but a Swann-Morten is better.

[railroadbill]

Agree, you've reminded me of using single edged razor blades for modelling (cutting balsa I think). Despite having some Chinese clone knife sets cheap from Aldi, I've got a genuine X-Acto  knife handle I bought in a model shop in the States and that is just so much better to hold.  Also, my old Swann-Morten knife (has number 3 on it) that takes scalpel blades again has a better grip while using it.

[GoingUnderground]

On 09/11/2021 at 20:13, railroadbill said:

 

Been having a lot of delayed post locally, but this has now turned up!

 

Thank you so  much Ruffnut Thorston for posting the link for this earlier in the thread.   Oxfam has some money and I now have a very interesting book!  A win win situation.

 

I have so far learnt 3 things.

1. Trix used to make cycling accessories.

2. Trix made Xacto tools under licence  as Trix-Xacto.

3. There was a British Lego company that made mouldings for Trix.

 

The company (or companies)  history is interesting.

 

 

I think that you might have misunderstood the relationship between Lego and Trix.

 

In the UK, Lego was made in the Courtaulds factory in Wrexham following a licencing agreement between the Danish Lego company and Courtaulds. Courtaulds was a chemical company which used wood pulp as its feedstock from which it made cellulose acetate. If you've ever been to Spondon, outside Derby, you may have noticed the smell of vinegar/acetic acid given off by the former Courtaulds acetate plant adjoining the railway at Spondon.

 

Cellulose acetate is a well known type of plastic used to make amongst other things  plastic toys including Lego up to 1963. Lines Bros/Triang used it up to the mid 1950s before switching to polystyrene. Lego was expanding fast in Europe and the Danish Lego company couldn't handle the additional volume required to satisfy the demand in the UK and Ireland. Hence the licencing agreement with Courtaulds. So the tie up between Lego and Courtaulds isn't as weird as it might at first seem.

 

Courtaulds, through its British Celanese subsidiary, bought the British Trix business from its previous owners, Dufay who were experiencing serious financial problems, to expand its interests in the toy world.

 

The Courtaulds factory producing Lego for sale in the the UK and Ireland, and subsequently in Australia, was in Wrexham, and British Trix was moved to Wrexham to be physically and managerially close to its new parent company British Celanese.

 

I couldn't see where Matthewman says that British Lego made mouldings for British Trix, only that they provided storage and production facilities after British Celanese sold British Trix to the German Trix company  in 1968 after Celanese shut down British Trix in December 1967. As British Celanese/Courtaulds owned both British Lego and British Trix, with some senior executives involved in both companies, it could have happened during the period of ownership by Courtaulds. However, the British Lego factory probably had its hands full keeping up with demand for Lego.

[andyman7]

19 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

I think that you might have misunderstood the relationship between Lego and Trix.

 

In the UK, Lego was made in the Courtaulds factory in Wrexham following a licencing agreement between the Danish Lego company and Courtaulds. Courtaulds was a chemical company which used wood pulp as its feedstock from which it made cellulose acetate. If you've ever been to Spondon, outside Derby, you may have noticed the smell of vinegar/acetic acid given off by the former Courtaulds acetate plant adjoining the railway at Spondon.

 

Cellulose acetate is a well known type of plastic used to make amongst other things  plastic toys including Lego up to 1963. Lines Bros/Triang used it up to the mid 1950s before switching to polystyrene. Lego was expanding fast in Europe and the Danish Lego company couldn't handle the additional volume required to satisfy the demand in the UK and Ireland. Hence the licencing agreement with Courtaulds. So the tie up between Lego and Courtaulds isn't as weird as it might at first seem.

 

Courtaulds, through its British Celanese subsidiary, bought the British Trix business from its previous owners, Dufay who were experiencing serious financial problems, to expand its interests in the toy world.

 

The Courtaulds factory producing Lego for sale in the the UK and Ireland, and subsequently in Australia, was in Wrexham, and British Trix was moved to Wrexham to be physically and managerially close to its new parent company British Celanese.

 

I couldn't see where Matthewman says that British Lego made mouldings for British Trix, only that they provided storage and production facilities after British Celanese sold British Trix to the German Trix company  in 1968 after Celanese shut down British Trix in December 1967. As British Celanese/Courtaulds owned both British Lego and British Trix, with some senior executives involved in both companies, it could have happened during the period of ownership by Courtaulds. However, the British Lego factory probably had its hands full keeping up with demand for Lego.

I remember back in the 1970s getting Lego spares and accessories supplied from the Wrexham plant. There are references in the Matthewman book to items being moulded by Lego, e.g. P211 regarding the A2 body tool being made by Universal Tools Ltd of Mitcham with bodies moulded at the British Lego factory; P190 regarding the E3001 tool being purchased by British Trix from Liliput of Austria and the body now being moulded at the Lego factory in Wrexham. 

 

The mention of British Celanese reminds me of all those Decca record sleeves with the note on the reverse that stated it was 'laminated with 'Clarifoil' made by British Celanese Ltd'.