Jump to content

Please use M,M&M only for topics that do not fit within other forum areas. All topics posted here await admin team approval to ensure they don't belong elsewhere.

Steve K

British Outline 'HO' - what's the story?

Recommended Posts

Here, for your delectation (or otherwise), I present a summary of my above-named thread from the old(er) RMweb. The original thread will remain at http://www.rmweb.co....ilit=british+ho for as long as the technology allows, of course (hopefully a very long time), but I thought that, by copying it here, I could edit my (and plenty of others', too - many thanks, one and all) musings on the subject of British HO. The thread, now very much shortened, starts with my initial question on the subject of this almost forgotten British modelling scale, and leads to shopping trips and, who knows, into some actual modelling!

I trust that those whose replies I have hacked about will accept my apologies. As I say, the original thread can be read in full at the above link, is desired, and so, to avoid this version getting bogged down completely, I have edited out some repetition and deviation including, but not limited to, much talk of flanges. Anyway, onward and upward, beginning with what was my first-ever RMweb post...

 

British Outline 'HO' - what's the story?

original page on Old RMweb

__________________________________________

 

??? posted on Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:50 pm

 

First of all - hello to everyone! I've been lurking as a guest for a while, ever since a chance visit to a model railway fair rekindled my interest in a hobby that I relinquished 25 years ago. Now, at nearly 40, I can foresee that, in the not too distant future, I might be able to get back into modelling, so I thought it would be good to register, and pick all your brains!

 

Anyway, the matter at hand: on a recent visit to a toy fair, I spotted amongst the usual 'OO' stuff, some rather small-looking diesel locos, a couple of 33s and some 21/29s. On closer inspection, they were Lima 'HO' models. Thinking back, I reckon I've seen other stuff in that gauge, too - a Class 25, perhaps - stuff that I originally dismissed as just a poor 'OO' model, but was probably in fact a different scale entirely.

 

So my question is this: is there a lot of British outline stuff out there in 'HO', and has it got any promise as the basis for a layout, or is it now just a curiosity? OK, two-and-a-half questions. It's just that, as someone returning to the hobby, I'm aware that I need to focus on a period, maybe a region, and I wondered if British 'HO' would be sufficiently specific to help me avoid buying every nice-looking loco that caught my eye. I've read enough "Don't know why I bought this, it doesn't fit with my layout, but I liked it" threads to know how easy it to get sidetracked!

 

As it happens, my main interest is green/early blue diesels, so the above would fit into my (so far very tentative) plans, and the models I've seen are poor enough that I could practice my painting and general tinkering skills on them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Comment posted by spamcan61 on Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:04 pm

 

>>is there a lot of British outline stuff out there in 'HO'?

No

 

>> and has it got any promise as the basis for a layout?

Not unless you enjoy scratchbuilding

 

>>or is it now just a curiosity?

Pretty much, although there is a Britsh HO society:-

 

http://www.british-ho.freeserve.co.uk/

__________________________________________

Comment posted by dwhite4dcc on Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:15 pm

 

SteveK wrote:

So my question is this: is there a lot of British outline stuff out there in 'HO', and has it got any promise as the basis for a layout, or is it now just a curiosity? So - over to the experts. Am I deluded/naive, or might I be on to something?

No, probably not and yes as answers to the questions.

 

I have been to the Dortmund Modellbau for two years now and have spent innumerable time searching through extensive dealer stock for British stuff.

 

I found one coach.

 

So, no you are not onto something IMHO.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by shortliner on Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:18 pm

 

There have been several articles about British HO in "Model Trains International" and its predecessors. If you want further info on the posibility of back numbers or photocopies, and where to get them, PM me

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Nick Holliday on Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:22 pm

 

I don't think the situation is quite as grim as some are suggesting. There is a website at http://www.british-ho.com/ with a comprehensive list of various products over the years, and some still available. There is also the dedicated The British 1:87 Scale Society to provide further support.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Trains4U on Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:49 pm

 

Fleischmann still tout their class 42 Warship in both BR Blue and Green as well as three types of Bullied coach.

 

Lima certainly had the 33 and Mk2 carriages and I've seen loads of Mk1s in all sorts of liveries from Trix Twin (Marked TTR) which certainly appear to be HO - considerably smaller than Hornby or Lima Mk1s in all dimensions.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Il Grifone on Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:01 pm

 

British H0 comes in two scales 1:80 and 1:87 RTR.

In the latter there is (was?) a Fleischmann Warship and Bulleid coaches. In addition to this Lima produced an LMS 4F (width to 4mm scale) a Class 33 (IIRC) Mk 1 & 2 coaches and a few wagons. Jouef produced a few items under the Playcraft label, but the less said about them the better.

The earlier Trix diecast items in their second series plus the plastic rolling stock were made in 1:80 (approx) as was the Rivarossi "Scot" and coaches (again watch the width).

On the plus side, almost all commercial track is H0.

 

Really British H0 is for the scratch builder and needs to be built to P87 standards (see website) for the same reason that 18.83 mm gauge has to be P4/S4.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Bertiedog on Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:02 pm

 

There's two areas, the collection of commercial UK HO, and the scratch built HO models.

 

Pre -war there was a big movement lead by Stewart Reidpath to popularise HO, but it failed to catch on, OO scale proving more popular.

 

True scale HO is still possible for UK outline ( see other previous listings for details), but difficult for commercial production, with our steam locos having close fitting splashers. The Japanese tried brass GWR Kings in HO, and there were some brass LMS Crabs made in the 1960's.

 

Several makers have tried to use HO like the continental makers, but usually the locos are compromised in dimensions around the wheels sets, even on diesels. Rivarossi tired, but failed commercially.

 

Many modellers do not realise an OO model is easier to convert to true scale than an HO to true scale due to the wheel set overall width being oversize in HO compared to the real thing. An OO loco has wheel set width that is scale even on a commercial item, thus allowing conversion to Protoscale or Scalefour standards.

Bertiedog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the replies, folks - it's given me food for thought although, as I say, I haven't really fixed on an idea of how I'm going to take the plunge back into modelling, so I'm just throwing ideas out there as I think of them.

 

Problem is, there's so much nice 'OO' stuff out there now, even in RTR, that I just know I'd blow large amounts of cash in no time at all if I didn't get a pretty clear idea of what I wanted to achieve. Perversely, I came up with this thought of 'HO precisely because there's very little out there.

 

Still, I'm not disheartened. Half (if not more) of the fun's in the planning, and I've got plenty more daft ideas up my sleeve!

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Easterner on Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:05 pm

 

Interesting thought - pick a difficult scale/standard on the basis that then you won't buy all that expensive commercial stuff...! The funny thing is, it does work. I recently took the plunge into 7mm, notoriously more expensive than some other scales - but because I'm building everything from kits progress is slow enough that I have actually spent less than I would have done on RTR. And I still have several kits unstarted in the cupboard!

 

I'm no expert but I think it's pretty unlikely that HO is a goer - unless you're skilled/disciplined/patient enough to scratchbuild everything. If you are then try something more impressive like 3mm or S icon_wink.gif (Or ScaleSeven icon_rolleyes.gif if there were commercial wheelsets I'd be tempted) Another way - try P4. You can still buy some satisfying RTR, but as you'll have to re-wheel and compensate, and build track to run it on, that should delay acquisitions sufficient to satisfy the bank manager!

 

Let us know when you decide what to do - and welcome to the forum BTW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

??? posted on Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:24 pm

 

Easterner wrote:

I'm no expert but I think it's pretty unlikely that HO is a goer - unless you're skilled/disciplined/patient enough to scratchbuild everything.

Yes, well, first I'd like to have something to run that wasn't covered in glue and solder! It seems that as far as RTR goes, I'd be limited to old Lima stock (locos and mk2s), and a bit of stuff that ran in the UK and continental Europe, like the above-mentioned 42s.

If you are then try something more impressive like 3mm or S

Yes, well, is that the time... ?

Let us know when you decide what to do - and welcome to the forum BTW.

There's plenty of thinking to do yet, I assure you. Can't rush into these things, can we? Oh, and thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment posted by Phil on Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:35 pm

 

Bertiedog wrote:

There's two areas, the collection of commercial UK HO, and the scratch built HO models.

 

Pre -war there was a big movement lead by Stewart Reidpath to popularise HO, but it failed to catch on, OO scale proving more popular.

 

True scale HO is still possible for UK outline ( see other previous listings for details), but difficult for commercial production, with our steam locos having close fitting splashers. The Japanese tried brass GWR Kings in HO, and there were some brass LMS Crabs made in the 1960's.

Interesting you mention the Japanese brass Crabs. I'm sure my dad's got a 4mm scale one of those from the 1960s - I'll ask him tomorrow (monday) and report back.

 

Bertiedog wrote:

Several makers have tried to use HO like the continental makers, but usually the locos are compromised in dimensions around the wheels sets, even on diesels. Rivarossi tired, but failed commercially.

 

Many modellers do not realise an OO model is easier to convert to true scale than an HO to true scale due to the wheel set overall width being oversize in HO compared to the real thing. An OO loco has wheel set width that is scale even on a commercial item, thus allowing conversion to Protoscale or Scalefour standards.

Bertiedog

__________________________________________

Comment posted by kernowtim on Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:51 am

 

There is also a class 66 from Mehano and an 08 shunter from Roco but neither are in British liveries

__________________________________________

Comment posted by cig1705 on Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:09 am

 

kernowtim wrote:

There is also a class 66 from Mehano and an 08 shunter from Roco but neither are in British liveries

If I recall correctly, the 08 isn't actually an 08. It's closer to a Class 11 (effectively the LMS antecedent to the 08). It can be modified, though!

 

In terms of the "Has it got any promise for a layout?" question, I'd reply that it does, but a very limited one. The problem is that the prototypes available are from a very broad background, the upshot being that it's virtually impossible to build a co-ordinated layout without resorting to scratchbuilding etc.

 

Probably the best represented region is the SR; there's the 33, the 42 (which ran on Western Section trains in the mid-late 1960s) and the Bulleids, whilst more Bulleids, along with an EPB, a CEP, a REP and an MLV, are available from Worsley Works, not to mention a Schools and an M7. The downside is that these are all "Scratch Aids" and not "proper" kits. As such, they will require a lot of extra effort.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by David in Canada on Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:27 am

 

My impression of British HO is that aside from the dozen (or so) pieces of rolling stock, there is track (that doesn't look British) and ??? I don't think there are any specific buildings and anything scenic will have to be converted continental or bodged OO. Come to think of it, I do have HO models of the Queen and the Dook.

I have a friend working in S scale, and I think his only commercial products are axleboxes.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Bertiedog on Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:30 pm

 

Interesting you mention the Japanese brass Crabs. I'm sure my dad's got a 4mm scale one of those from the 1960s - I'll ask him tomorrow (monday) and report back.

With reference to the OO Brass Crabs there were also a handful of H0 versions about the time of the Underhill imports. The Japanese maker got HO and OO confused at first. It was such a mistake that led to the GWR King being made at the time.

Bertiedog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

??? posted on Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:11 pm

 

Oh dear. Now I've done it! Going back over the comments in this thread has got me looking at the Roco and Fleischmann websites. So much for keeping costs down - those Warships look fantastic!

 

Also, some of the "HO" versions off oddball shunters and railcars are just too inviting. I'll have to ban myself from looking at those sites again until I've got some spare cash!

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Adrian Wintle on Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:52 pm

 

SteveK wrote:

Oh dear. Now I've done it! Going back over the comments in this thread has got me looking at the Roco and Fleischmann websites. So much for keeping costs down - those Warships look fantastic!

The current Bachmann OO one has a similar level of detail and a better driveline (Fleischmann is motor bogie with traction tires on all 4 drive wheels). It is also significantly cheaper. The Fleischmann one does have directional lighting, though.

 

Adrian

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Fosterboy on Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:09 pm

 

What about doing something based on the ex-LSWR lines to Devon? Warships and 33s are ideal for that, and the Bulllied coaches would be correct too.

 

I think that if you enjoy kitbuilding, you could get a lot out of doing H0. I don't see why you would have to model to P87, any more than people building kits or scratchbuilding in 1:76 scale would have to model P4!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

??? posted on Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:47 pm

 

Fosterboy wrote:

What about doing something based on the ex-LSWR lines to Devon? Warships and 33s are ideal for that, and the Bulllied coaches would be correct too.

 

I think that if you enjoy kitbuilding, you could get a lot out of doing H0. I don't see why you would have to model to P87, any more than people building kits or scratchbuilding in 1:76 scale would have to model P4!

No, that's quite true. There's no reason why one scale "has" to be built to a higher standard than any other, other than personal choice, is there? As for kitbuilding, there seem to be some nice shunters out there, for example, intended for Dutch or German users, but perfectly viable as Class 11s, or even 08s if you're brave. And have you seen Heljan's new Railcar? Quirky, yes, but rather nice!

 

I like your Devon idea, too, Fosterboy - definite potential there. As I say, I'm fishing for ideas here, because I'm still some way off being able to start a layout, but the more I think about it, the more I think this idea may have legs. OK, so I'm not necessarily going to have the best example of any particular model - I take on board the point about the Fleischmann 42 compared with Bachmann - but 'HO' would force me to do plenty of research, and possibly to end up with something quite unusual.

 

(And, hopefully, it would enable me to "just say 'No!'" to all the tempting new models on offer!)

 

(EDITED to make some sort of sense)

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Il Grifone on Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:52 pm

 

Fosterboy wrote:

What about doing something based on the ex-LSWR lines to Devon? Warships and 33s are ideal for that, and the Bulllied coaches would be correct too.

 

I think that if you enjoy kitbuilding, you could get a lot out of doing H0. I don't see why you would have to model to P87, any more than people building kits or scratchbuilding in 1:76 scale would have to model P4!

It's all in the width! icon_cry.gif That's why 00 1:76 uses 16.5mm gauge (and TT (1:101.6) 12mm and N (1:148) 9mm). The Fleischmann Warship is only slightly overwidth, I understand. One advantage of a diesel icon_rolleyes.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:22 pm

 

I've been dabbling in British HO for a few years now, partly because I'm not keen on just being in the mainstream like everyone else (tin hat on, ducks for cover)...

Even with the British 1:87 Scale Society around I'd say it's still a lonely furrow to plow and very much the hard way to do things! It isn't cheap either, with the basis for some locos being European models (I've resisted the Mehano 66 because for that money you can get two Bachy 4mm ones plus some change and they won't need repainting!!!).

Some years ago now, when Heljan were contemplating entering the UK market the Society got them to draw up plans for a class 37 to HO scale with decent motor/flywheel drive, when Hornby, Lima et al were still in the stone-age with pancake motors, rubber tyres, pizza cutter flanges etc. Heljan's model would've knocked spots off them, but the cost was proposed as ??????‚??100 per loco- at that time just far too high to really be attractive, in fact still high today really, and the interest (scale issue aside) was very limited, so it was dropped & Heljan went to 4mm to join the mainstream market- who can blame them really? But that one last chance to establish British HO commercially died then, and I personally don't see anyone else attempting it again, especially as in the meantime the UK 4mm models have gone through a quantum leap in quality to what was around even 10 years ago.

In fact dare I say it, if British O scale wasn't so expensive (a Conspiracy that has been discussed many times on RMweb) I'd be out of British HO altogether by now...

__________________________________________

Comment posted by melmoth on Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:05 pm

 

Fosterboy wrote:

What about doing something based on the ex-LSWR lines to Devon? Warships and 33s are ideal for that, and the Bulllied coaches would be correct too.

Yep, Templecombe/Sherborne/Axminster etc. in circa 1967 would be possible. Not much freight around either, so wagons wouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment posted by Alan Smithee on Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:24 pm

 

I don't think there are any specific buildings

 

Apart from Mortimer (GWR) collection from Heljan in HO which ran to more than a couple of structures.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Ddolfelin on Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:44 am

 

I feel so inadequate when I read these threads.

 

Speaking broadly, I understand 00 to be 4mm on HO width wheels/track.

 

If I've got that right, the ideal must be

a) make the stock smaller in proportion,

B) make the wheels/track wider,

either of which will bring models nearer prototypes.

 

I know that replies will contain references to all sorts of clever systems, from P4 to scratchbuilt which will leave me feeling more inadequate.

 

Thanks for raising the subject. We're not all experts you know.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

??? posted on Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:44 pm

 

Just had another gander at the Roco site. This would grace any British 'HO' layout, I'm sure (well, after you'd scraped the Danish lettering off it!).

 

file.php?id=2041

 

__________________________________________

Comment posted by EM in Chelmsford on Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:56 pm

 

Ddolfelin wrote:

....B) make the wheels/track wider.....

http://www.emgs.org/

__________________________________________

 

??? posted on Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:11 pm

 

Of course, with British outline, you're right, EM, that option "b" is probably the way to go. There's more stuff out there because all the 4mm bodyshells are already suitable for EM or P4 - it's just the undercarriage that needs altering. OK, I'm simplifying things rather, but you know what I'm getting at.

 

The reason for me starting this thread was to investigate whether option "a" was at all viable, just as a different way of looking at things. The answer seems to be that modelling UK 3.5mm is possible, although the RTR stuff isn't cheap, and there's not a lot of choice with new stuff, apart from the trackwork, of course, which is both cheap and plentiful!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment posted by EM in Chelmsford on Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:21 pm

 

It is viable, of course it is. The point is that one must start along that route with a different approach to that promulgated by Hornby, Bachmann and all their heritage predecessors. And such a route will be unfamiliar to most. Specialised modelling organisations do exist for those who feel that there's something not quite satisfying enough with what others have labelled, "chequebook modelling". All one has to do is to decide whether to take the red pill, Neo, or the blue one.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Anglian on Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:23 pm

 

Steve like you I find myself drawn back to the hobby after 25 years and just after a 40th birthday. I fully understand the fear of blowing lots of cash with the initial rush of interest and ending up with a random collection that is hard if not impossible to develop into a cohesive layout.

 

I've looked into all sorts of things, for example 3mm has a very real appeal to me but I doubt my abilities to build everything although it would totally avoid the danger of buying every other new Hornby release.

 

In the end I settled on 4mm and have bought one loco; Hornby LSWR M7. I'm toying with the idea of going EM but can't yet decide but any stock I'll need will have to be kit built be it OO or EM. I know porgress will be very, very slow but I have to transfer my military modelling skills to railways and I suspect by the time I've made even just a small LSWR layout I'll know what I really want to do. If ultimately its not LSWR or even 4mm I won't have a vast collection of stock which is unsuitable.

 

I've learnt from my other modelling activities to go bit by bit and not splash out too much in one go otherwise there's the chance of having too much stuff that never gets built or used. I've also learnt how much your standards can improve in time so I'm looking at my early models as part of a learning process and doubt I'll treasure them forever.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Ravenser on Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:35 pm

 

In all seriousness - why not look at 3mm rather than British HO?

 

The product support is a lot better. If you are going to be scraping round looking for elderly second hand bits of Lima, you might as well look round for old Triang TT. The 3mm Society run a an active second hand operation and I'd much rather have a Triang 3mm class 31 than the Playcraft "NBL diesel"

 

Certainly the range of wagon kits available through the 3mm Society from Parkside and Cambrian is good - remarkably good . Worsley Works offer a decent range of "scratch aid" etched coaching stock. The range of subjects that can be tackled in 3mm is far far wider and arguably the results reasonably attainable are significantly better. There are some possibilities for structures etc

 

If you are willing to put up with 12mm gauge, then track can be sourced from the Peco HOm range , which is arguably closer to 3mm British sleepering than their 16.5mm gauge stuff is to 4mm. (To be honest Peco code 75 isn't even right for British track in HO). 12mm gauge mechanisms can be sourced from various quarters . If you are willing to build your own pointwork (as would be required in EM) then 14.2mm beckons . And there's the possibility of something other than standard gauge - 3n3 (3' gauge in 3mm using N gauge track/mechanisms) has started to develop and theres a modest amount kits for of Irish stock, and a few brave souls are exploring Irish broad gauge in 3mm , I think using 15.75mm gauge

 

Oh and there are space advantages over HO

 

If I were going to build something in a non-commercial scale , I'd certainly go for 3mm. The potential for some 3' gauge ng locos using the chassis off the new N gauge Farish 04 is intriguing

 

I certainly wouldn't dismiss OO as "chequebook modelling" (that normally means paying someone else to build it for you), but 3mm is certainly the best supported of all the non-commercial scales bar O (well, they don't have much RTR....) arguably the cheapest , and as they say "its a nice size"

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment posted by Il Grifone on Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:45 pm

 

SteveK wrote:

Just had another gander at the Roco site. This would grace any British 'HO' layout, I'm sure (well, after you'd scraped the Danish lettering off it!).

 

Shunter.jpg

Why would you want to scrape the Danish lettering off? icon_confused.gif I didn't know DSB had any though - must check my stock books! Note however that the spring thickness has been sacrificed to get the wheels in. icon_cry.gif They aren't the only ones of course! Comes in Dutch as well I believe.

__________________________________________

 

??? posted on Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:54 am

 

Purely because this thread is primarily concerned with modelling British rolling stock in 'HO'. As it happens, I think the gronk looks rather smart in its Danish livery!

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Ddolfelin on Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:06 am

 

A very crisply detailed (accurate or not) model and good pic.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At Royston show a couple of weeks ago there was an HO model of a Glasgow terminus. It was a two level affair with a double platform passenger station up top" and a shunting yard below. Loco's were an 08 on the bottom, a couple of 26's on passenger and an old Playcraft 22/29 thing which looked OK and ran well-the guy took the body off and showed me the American chassis underneath!

I thought the whole thig looked very good, and the guy pointed out you can get 4 coaches and a loco in pretty much the same length as 3+1 in OO.

 

Ed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At Royston show a couple of weeks ago there was an HO model of a Glasgow terminus. It was a two level affair with a double platform passenger station up top" and a shunting yard below. Loco's were an 08 on the bottom, a couple of 26's on passenger and an old Playcraft 22/29 thing...

That's interesting - it had occurred to me that the Lima 33s could be converted pretty paimlessly into 26/27s. Seems I'm not the first to think that.

 

Forgive me for pausing halfway through copying this thread over from RMweb3; I really must get around to finishing the job off, so I can get around to sharing some more up-to-date ideas and acqusitions...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On with the transfer:

 

 

Comment posted by DaveGeo on Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:11 am

 

Seems to me that you could construct a pretty decent intermodal or oil layout/diorama using Mehano 66s, the 08 and Roco/Trix/Fleischmann rolling stock - with not too much work?

 

Anyway, with Open Access agreements and RoLa, you won't need to restrict it with solely GB outline soon icon_wink.gif .

 

Dave

__________________________________________

Comment posted by EM in Chelmsford on Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:19 am

 

Indeed. While there is British stuff in HO, there ain't too much continental stuff in OO.

 

Further, there is an European Directive coming into force at midnight on 31/3/2008 requiring pan-European harmonisation of modelling scales, in the same way as there is now pan-European harmonisation of electrical cable colours. Apparently, Britain has been lagging behind the rest of Europe, which is based almost entirely in the 3.5mm:1ft scale, for some time and persists in using commercial gauge/scale ratios that are inconsistent. Brussels is setting out to rectify the situation. So it looks like HO is the way forwards.

__________________________________________

 

??? posted on Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:24 am

 

Known as the Poission d'Avril regulations, I understand. Seems I'm ahead of the game on this one!

__________________________________________

Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:24 am

 

icon_eek.gif icon_eek.gif icon_question.gif icon_question.gif First I've heard of that idea- not that I doubt it, Brussels sticks it's nose in everywhere icon_rolleyes.gif but that's a heck of a large spanner to be throwing into the workings of the British Model manufacturing Industry!!! What about O & N scales, because the UK is out of step there too...???

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Ddolfelin on Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:24 am

 

I can't trace it at present but I understand there is also legislation regarding spanners.

European spanner manufacturers will no longer be able to supply spanners with a different throat at each end of the shank.

This is due to the impact on production that the two for one principle has and the consequent lack of available employment for European Spanner makers.

There is also a Health and Safety issue but I can't remember what it was.

Adjustable Spanners are exempt from the legislation as they are considered to be 'automatic machinery' which, as we know, is subject to a different set of criteria.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by DaveGeo on Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:40 am

 

 

 

EM in Chelmsford wrote:

.. Further, there is an European Directive coming into force at midnight on 31/3/2008 requiring pan-European harmonisation of modelling scales ..... So it looks like HO is the way forwards.

I don't know about this. I just don't see the argument by the Brussels "turnips" stacking up solidly. If a company wants to replicate prototypes at a particular gauge, who the hell are these interfereing wasters to try and dictate that only certain gauges are acceptable. We're talking models, for heavens sake, and its government meddling at its worst level - just to justify their existence.

 

Anyway, rant over icon_biggrin.gif - so here's a lovely HO model of an intermodal wagon (produced by Brawa) that we see regularly on the WCML etc.

 

Here's the zoom image - it doesn't work on the Brawa page!

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

??? posted on Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:02 pm

 

DaveGeo wrote:

EM in Chelmsford wrote:

.. Further, there is an European Directive coming into force at midnight on 31/3/2008 requiring pan-European harmonisation of modelling scales ..... So it looks like HO is the way forwards.

I don't know about this. I just don't see the argument by the Brussels "turnips" stacking up solidly. If a company wants to replicate prototypes at a particular gauge, who the hell are these interfereing wasters to try and dictate that only certain gauges are acceptable. We're talking models, for heavens sake, and its government meddling at its worst level - just to justify their existence.

 

Dave

I think the clue to EM's post might be in the date, Dave. If you consider when this "law" will take effect, you will see that he was perhaps bending the truth just a little. Hence my "Poisson d'Avril" comment (French for "April Fool").

 

Nice intermodal, by the way - I can see quite a nice little 'HO' fleet coming together!

__________________________________________

Comment posted by DaveGeo on Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:28 pm

 

icon_confused.gif icon_lol.gif and there was I secretly thinking that everyone on RMweb would have to PX all their stuff join us in the HO family.

 

Dave

__________________________________________

Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:40 pm

 

Hmmmmm... I think I fell for that one.... icon_redface.gif icon_lol.gif

 

Those Megafrets are nice- but so's the price icon_rolleyes.gif !!! Told you British HO ain't cheap!

 

Also that "Dutch 08" needs more than the markings removed- also those big lights and funny end brackets, and ladders depending on period. The roof isn't arched enough for a true 08 either, strictly speaking... The good news is Decals are available for the Wasp Stripes, from the Society.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Bertiedog on Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:20 pm

 

Perhaps the same somewhat piscine "Euro Directive" would force HO makers abroad like Marklin, Roco, Fleishmann, and all the others to actually offer scale HO wheels and alter all the models they make to have scale splashers and fittings around the wheels?

 

UK modellers fondly believe all Euro Ho is "so exact scale", perhaps they should have a hard look at the undersized wheels, wide splashers, and over wide diesel frames that the overall width of an HO wheel set forces on the Continental makers.

 

At least OO scale models can be converted to scale, but try that with a Marklin, or any other HO model, straight from the box. They look good , but boy have they fiddled with the dimensions to get those over width in HO wheels into place, even with the newer finer HO wheel standards. Few Euro designs have to have the wheels behind splashers, unlike UK prototypes.

 

It always seem to be misunderstood that the size problem with HO is the width from outer tyre face to the other face is the almost insurmountable problem HO has, nothing to do with factors which have muddied the waters since the days of Henry Greenly and Arthur Hambling.

 

If the overall width was reduced to HO scale, the resulting wheels would be in proportion to P4 wheels and unusable for the average modeller. Anything wider than scale will cramp side play and give very tight clearances.

 

Also the cylinder centre line would not be in the right place for conversion to scale, which it is in OO.

 

I fully know true scale HO can and is done, on similar basis to P4, but it's quite as exotic and exacting

 

But this is opening a can of worms, and I should say I use HO, OO and P4, each to his own, even after the First of April 2008.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:37 pm

 

Bertiedog wrote:

Bit this is opening a can of worms,

You mean RE-opening... we've been here before, and the reason why people perceive HO as being more accurate- because the Track Gauge is correct. Somehow that point has been emphasised so much over the years that it's become the 'Holy Grail' of railway modelling, and these other issues put aside as a result...

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Bertiedog on Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:43 pm

 

Got it in one Sir!

Bertiedog

__________________________________________

 

??? posted on Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:47 pm

 

F-UnitMad wrote:

That "Dutch 08" needs more than the markings removed- also those big lights and funny end brackets, and ladders depending on period. The roof isn't arched enough for a true 08 either, strictly speaking... The good news is Decals are available for the Wasp Stripes, from the Society.

It's a "Danish 11", actually (but I'll concede the point, because they do it in Dutch livery too)! Sad as I am, I looked a bit closer at this model, and it actually comes with detailing parts that fit in place of the lights, and the British HO website gives some details on modifying the side lockers to make it resemble an 08/09.

 

Me, I'd be tempted to leave the lights on, because even if not prototypical, they look rather smart, and find some excuse for modellng a railyard that worked in the dark (maybe shifting those lovely Brawa intermodals around).

 

As everyone keeps pointing out, though, Fleischmann, Brawa and Roco are not what you'd call the bargain basement of RTR modelling, but you could keep the average price down by buying up second-hand Lima 33s and 21s - and a few Mk2 coaches, perhaps - to weather and keep in the background, and let the Fleischmann Warships (with a full complement of green Bulleid coaches in tow, naturally) take care of the foreground action!

 

Don't worry, F-Unit & Bertie, I'm not fooling myself into thinking that 'HO' is any kind of Holy Grail of precision modelling, but I'm increasingly attracted by the idea that it's something a bit different, a part of the hobby not much travelled, and yes, the very fact that the choice of rolling stock is so limited intrigues me. In the same way, if someone had been shortsighted enough to produce a small amount of European stock in British 'N', I'd probably find that interesting, too...

 

(And I don't care what class that Roco shunter is, I want one!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment posted by Ravenser on Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:56 pm

 

Picking up on Bertiedog's posting, really the only practical destination for British HO , at least as far as steam is concerned, is P87. However the support for P87 in general is small and in a British context is nil. (And of course P87 brings the usual constraints of all dead scale modelling, but that's another story).

 

If you try to use coarse scale HO wheels, track etc for British outline , you'll fast land yourself in a set of distortions of stock that look at least as bad as anything alleged against commercial RTR OO. You may have an accurate scale/gauge ratio but the downside in every other area of appearance is sufficiently great that the game doesn't seem worth the candle. And of course the product availability is extremely limited, to the point of very severe difficulty , compared with 4mm or anything else

 

Diesels do lend themselves much better to the necessary fudges of course

 

To my mind , the sheer lack of support for P87 , compared with P4 or 3mm/14.2mm gauge , and the lack of any other advantage P87 might show over the other two, makes the exercise look unrewardin g

__________________________________________

Comment posted by DaveGeo on Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:12 pm

 

Didn't think that this thread was espousing a "Holy Grail" type HO ascendancy? I thought we were simply on the track of how to assemble GB in HO.

 

Dave

__________________________________________

Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:48 pm

 

DaveGeo wrote:

Didn't think that this thread was espousing a "Holy Grail" type HO ascendancy? I thought we were simply on the track of how to assemble GB in HO.

 

Dave

No, I used that term in relation to how having an accurate gauge of 4'8.5" in whatever scale is held up as the be-all & end-all by some, while overlooking other problems. This is just something to bear in mind about how to assemble GB in HO, because of GB trains having such a teeny loading gauge...

I think the main attraction, as far as I saw it and SteveK the OP'er sees it, is to have something a bit different to everyone else who models in 4mm, regardless of gauge...

As for 3mm, I think I'm right in saying that the 3mm Society has been running for many many years- the HO Society is about 10 years old?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment posted by Il Grifone on Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:19 pm

 

Leaving aside the usual H0 versus 00 arguments - each unto his own as I said before - does anyone know if this Danish version is real or just a repaint like U.S. modellers have to put up with as I can find no mention of it or even green livery. DSB was wine red for ages, before going to red and black.

 

The Roco model is rather nice, but you can get 2 Bachmann or Hornby 00 ones for the same money!

 

A little maths (bear with me).

 

Remember the prototype wheelset is 5' 3" over wheels (plus a bit consumed by scaling effects). This leaves very little space to get overscale wheels in and have space to turn (00: 14.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 =19.5mm OK, EM: 16.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 = 21.5 tight, H0: 15 + 2 + 2 = 19 tighter still) I'm quoting BRMSB standards, you can use DOGA if you prefer, but I don't think either Bachmann or Hornby have heard of them. The tendency seems to be to quote/use NMRA standards (at least they work, but try RP25/110 in the above sum).

GWR coach bogies were 5' 9" inside the frame....... icon_evil.gif

__________________________________________

Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:36 pm

 

Il Grifone wrote:

The Roco model is rather nice, but you can get 2 Bachmann or Hornby 00 ones for the same money!

Just as I said about the Mehano Class 66... icon_wink.gif

 

The trouble is that when the British HO Society got going, UK models were still in the stone-age. The Roco shunter was far better than the old Lima "09"/08 and of course almost anything was better than the old Hornby 08 icon_rolleyes.gif... I have a Roco shunter & a Bachmann one, and I have to say the Bachy runs better- geared slower for one thing. The current Hornby 08 probably is the same.

Compare the Mehano 66 to the old Lima 59/66 models and there'd be no contest- but against the Bachy 66 (not sure about the "Limby" 59) I wouldn't like to call it... but the 4mm models cost a lot less... as I said before, Heljan's original plans were, I reckon, the last time British HO will be contemplated commercially, and that opportunity has now long gone...

__________________________________________

Comment posted by twilight on Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:47 pm

 

Hmmm. A complicated issue for a first post but as I do (try to) model in British H0, here's my two penn'oth.

 

To me it'snly a question of degree as to where we place the boundaries of compromise in what we do as modellers. Different circumstances make that an individual decision. As with art, it is surely what speaks to / satisfies you and there are no SHOULD s about it.

 

I decided to try British H0 because I saw it as the reasonable challenge for me that EM did not appear to be and was better visually at overall viewing distance than 00. You can throw a lot of money at British H0 (just as you most certainly can with 00/EM/P4) but you don't have to. I can't afford to and I don't. Bits can still be had at swapmeets or through the British 1:87 Scale Society. Yes, you will be in a minority and have to do some altering / building /bashing but there??????????¬???????s the fun (amidst the blue language) and the achievement even if it's not exact scale.

 

SteveK said "Over to the experts". I say, back to you my friend. If you think you can create your vision with what you can get or make in H0 then have a go,even if only on a small scale. It will be a bit different, needn't cost you a great deal and might just be instructive and satisfying. It doesn't stop you investigating other scales as well.

 

Regards to all. Whatever scale/s anyone chooses to model in, I hope each one finds it rewarding.

__________________________________________

Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:29 pm

 

Twilight; welcome to RMweb firstly, second that's a quality first post there!! Very well put points, and a good reminder that at some point compromise is involved in any scale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment posted by Ravenser on Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:37 pm

 

Il Griffone wrote:

(00: 14.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 =19.5mm OK, EM: 16.5 + 2.5 + 2.5 = 21.5 tight, H0: 15 + 2 + 2 = 19 tighter still) I'm quoting BRMSB standards, you can use DOGA if you prefer, but I don't think either Bachmann or Hornby have heard of them. The tendency seems to be to quote/use NMRA standards (at least they work, but try RP25/110 in the above sum).

The DOGA Intermediate OO wheel standards mirror RP25/110, and the manufacturers do now attempt to work to RP25/110 , so the numbers for commercial OO become 14.4mm + 2.75mm + 2.75mm = 19.9mm .

 

Doesn't alter the argument you're making much , there's a "spare" millimetre in OO , EM is 0.5mm over the scale distance across wheelsets, and commercial US HO is a whopping 1.5mm over scale width across the faces of the wheels (In 3.5mm scale, the scale value becomes 18.4mm) . NEM standards for Continental HO are probably even worse

 

I'm not sure where you'd source wheels to the BRMSB HO standard though (and for EM , the 1979 EMGS standard is now the relevant one) . My guess is that the realistic options are OO Finescale wheels as sold by Gibson /Ultrascale using EM wheels set to 16.5mm gauge (plus US RP25/88 wheelsets sourced from the States) , or possibly InterCity Superrollers , which are available for 16.5mm gauge using P4 profile wheels . The latter is P87 territory though

__________________________________________

Comment posted by DaveGeo on Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:54 pm

 

twilight wrote:

.. To me it's only a question of degree as to where we place the boundaries of compromise in what we do as modellers. Different circumstances make that an individual decision. As with art, it is surely what speaks to / satisfies you and there are no SHOULD s about it.

Absolutely Twilight and that is what the essence of the thread is primarily about - based on Steve's original post.

 

Dave

__________________________________________

Comment posted by shipbadger on Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:05 pm

 

(plus US RP25/88 wheelsets sourced from the States)

 

Ravenser,

 

RP25/88 wheelsets are also available from the Australian manufacturers of the Black Beetle motor bogies, Steam Era Models. I use them in my coach bogies which are Bill Bedford sprung ones, but produced to 3.5mm scale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With apologies to many learned members, I have at this point deleted much talk of flanges and tolerances. I'm assured that this line of discussion has been covered many times before, so I've left out a lot of the HO v OO debate...

 

OK, so British 'HO' may or may not have legs as a layout idea, but the journey has been informative nonetheless. Every time I browse the web, I turn up something like this crane by Roco, which could be very easily Anglisised, I'm certain:

 

file.php?id=2418

 

Or this Railcar by Pb Messing of the Netherlands, which could surely be made to fit on a GWR "what might have been" layout (sacrilege to the purist, but a bit of fun!):

 

file.php?id=2420

 

And who wouldn't want this little beauty on their dual-gauge layout? There's something similar on most Little Railways in Wales:

 

file.php?id=2421

 

It does worry me slightly, though, that none of these sites have prices visible. Is it a case of "If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it"?

__________________________________________

 

??? posted on Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:35 pm

 

... and I'm sure that if you tweaked this a little, you could have it working some industrial sidings:

 

file.php?id=2457

 

The wheel arrangement looks familiar - I can't help feeling that, in green, and without the handrails, it could nearly pass for a Hunslet or Ruston of some description. I'm clutching at straws, but if I had a British layout with a factory or steel yard, I'd definitely find an excuse to include this!

__________________________________________

Comment posted by nzovu on Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:38 am

 

 

Il Grifone wrote:

Leaving aside the usual H0 versus 00 arguments - each unto his own as I said before - does anyone know if this Danish version is real or just a repaint like U.S. modellers have to put up with as I can find no mention of it or even green livery. DSB was wine red for ages, before going to red and black.

DSB received one of these locos after the war, and dubbed it the ML6. The livery was real enough, all shunters carried it at the time. If you are content with looking at pictures, you can browse a news page for Danish RTR and kits here: http://danskmodeltog.dk/Nyhedsarkiv.htm

__________________________________________

Comment posted by twilight on Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:53 am

 

Nice links chaps. Many thanks.

The Roco jackshaft chassis looks interesting and I love the Olsen Banden Ragertraktor and Scandia skinnebusser.

I think I could play quite nicely anglicising those. icon_biggrin.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

??? posted on Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:55 am

 

Last week, Fosterboy wrote:

What about doing something based on the ex-LSWR lines to Devon? Warships and 33s are ideal for that, and the Bulllied coaches would be correct too.

I'm a bit slow on the uptake, but surely the ideal name for my (theoretical) West Country 'HO' layout would be... (wait for it!):

 

Westward HO!

 

I thank you...

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Il Grifone on Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:16 pm

 

nzovu wrote:

Il Grifone wrote:

Leaving aside the usual H0 versus 00 arguments - each unto his own as I said before - does anyone know if this Danish version is real or just a repaint like U.S. modellers have to put up with as I can find no mention of it or even green livery. DSB was wine red for ages, before going to red and black.

DSB recieved one of these locos after the war, and dubbed it the ML6. The livery was real enough, all shunters carried it at the time. If you are content with looking at pictures, you can browse a news page for Danish RTR and kits here:

Thanks nzovu. icon_biggrin.gif

That site is just what I was looking for. Obviously I was putting the wrong thing in the search engines! icon_cry.gif

 

cheers,

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Easterner on Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:55 pm

 

SteveK wrote:

Last week, Fosterboy wrote:

What about doing something based on the ex-LSWR lines to Devon? Warships and 33s are ideal for that, and the Bulllied coaches would be correct too.

I'm a bit slow on the uptake, but surely the ideal name for my (theoretical) West Country 'HO' layout would be... (wait for it!):

 

Westward HO!

 

I thank you...

icon_eek.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif

__________________________________________

Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:00 pm

 

SteveK wrote:

... and I'm sure that if you tweaked this a little, you could have it working some industrial sidings:Roco Shunter 63378.jpg

The wheel arrangement looks familiar - I can't help feeling that, in green, and without the handrails, it could nearly pass for a Hunslet or Ruston of some description. I'm clutching at straws, but if I had a British layout with a factory or steel yard, I'd definitely find an excuse to include this!

You want to know why this looks familiar? It's the German loco that the BR Class 14 Teddy Bears were based on!!! In fact the British HO Society has plans in progress to produce a Class 14 Body Kit to go on this chassis, for a genuine British loco- no excuse needed!!! icon_razz.gif . Whether this kit will be etch brass or resin isn't certain yet, or a release date. Sod's law says it'll come out just after an RTR one in 4mm scale is produced!!! icon_rolleyes.gif icon_rolleyes.gif icon_lol.gif icon_wink.gif

There is one discrepency with the wheelbase on this chassis- the two axles either side of the jackshaft are spot-on, but the third outermost axle should really be a scale 9 inches further out for a Class 14. As this is about 2mm in reality I think most of us looking forward to the kit will live with the innaccuracy...

 

As for 'Westward HO!' .... very good, you might want to copyright that!!! icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif

__________________________________________

 

??? posted on Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:07 pm

 

F-UnitMad wrote:

As for 'Westward HO!' .... very good, you might want to copyright that!!!

If not copyright, then I at least claim first dibs!

 

I did have another idea. If I were to start collecting these not-quite-right locos - get a Danish class 11 and call it an 08, for instance, or buy the German shunter and call it a 14 without any alterations, I could call my layout HO-Ribble (I can picture the viaduct now!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:12 pm

 

SteveK wrote:

If I were to ... buy the German shunter and call it a 14 without any alterations, ...

Don't let me stop you, but it's footplate is far too wide as it is for British loading gauge... but it's a really good runner- I know, I've got one, waiting for the kit.... icon_rolleyes.gif icon_lol.gif icon_wink.gif

__________________________________________

Comment posted by papagolfjuliet on Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:25 pm

 

SteveK wrote:

... and I'm sure that if you tweaked this a little, you could have it working some industrial sidings:Roco Shunter 63378.jpg

The wheel arrangement looks familiar - I can't help feeling that, in green, and without the handrails, it could nearly pass for a Hunslet or Ruston of some description. I'm clutching at straws, but if I had a British layout with a factory or steel yard, I'd definitely find an excuse to include this!

A pirated, battery operated version of this crops up in cheap Chinese sets from time to time; a dockyard layout in RM a few months back made good use of one mounted on a Hornby 'Toby' chassis.

__________________________________________

 

??? posted on Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:46 am

 

F-UnitMad wrote:

SteveK wrote:

If I were to ... buy the German shunter and call it a 14 without any alterations, ...

Don't let me stop you, but it's footplate is far too wide as it is for British loading gauge... but it's a really good runner- I know, I've got one, waiting for the kit...

I'm getting way ahead of myself, but would it be feasible to remove the footplate and handrails, maybe reposition the steps, and reassemble the model into something near to a scale 9' wide, or is re-bodying the only possible mod?

 

Actually, I have the sneaky feeling that if I do start an 'HO' layout, British or not, I'm going to be tempted to go mad with the Roco brochure - there's just so much nice stuff in there! Can anyone put me out of my misery, though, on the prices of their shunters, for instance on this jackshaft model, or the class 11-that-isn't-quite?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment posted by EM in Chelmsford on Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:24 pm

 

DaveGeo wrote:

twilight wrote:

.. To me it's only a question of degree as to where we place the boundaries of compromise in what we do as modellers. Different circumstances make that an individual decision. As with art, it is surely what speaks to / satisfies you and there are no SHOULD s about it.

Absolutely Twilight and that is what the essence of the thread is primarily about - based on Steve's original post.

 

Dave

Absolutely. Otherwise we would be struggling with live steam in Z gauge. Oh, hang on. Someone IS.....

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Il Grifone on Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:32 pm

 

SteveK wrote:

F-UnitMad wrote:

SteveK wrote:

If I were to ... buy the German shunter and call it a 14 without any alterations, ...

Don't let me stop you, but it's footplate is far too wide as it is for British loading gauge... but it's a really good runner- I know, I've got one, waiting for the kit...

I'm getting way ahead of myself, but would it be feasible to remove the footplate and handrails, maybe reposition the steps, and reassemble the model into something near to a scale 9' wide, or is re-bodying the only possible mod?

 

Actually, I have the sneaky feeling that if I do start an 'HO' layout, British or not, I'm going to be tempted to go mad with the Roco brochure - there's just so much nice stuff in there! Can anyone put me out of my misery, though, on the prices of their shunters, for instance on this jackshaft model, or the class 11-that-isn't-quite?

Howes of Oxford:-

DB Baureihe 365 shunter ??93 icon_sad.gif out of stock icon_cry.gif

DSB Litra ML6 shunter ??86 icon_cry.gif

 

Lima used to do a cheap and nasty version of the DB shunter. Here's mine - cost 10,000??It (about ??3-4 S/H in its country of origin during the 80s).

 

file.php?id=2598

 

??? posted on Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:35 pm

 

Thanks, Grifone - I guess just under ??100 isn't too bad for something slightly different, and for that kind of quality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment posted by twilight on Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:57 pm

 

Was just about to post the same info but beaten to it icon_evil.gif

 

Victors http://www.victorsmodels.co.uk

 

have them listed as

Roco 63378 Diesel Shunting Engine class 365

Ref. Code: 63378 ??81.31 inc. VAT

 

Roco 63922 Diesel locomotive ML 6, DSB

??74.85 inc. VAT

 

even better icon_lol.gif but both are 'Available to Order'

__________________________________________

 

??? posted on Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:08 pm

 

Useful link, Twilight - Victors have the Fleischmann 'HO' Warships for ??107 and the Bulleid carriages for ??25 each. Tempting...

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Il Grifone on Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:33 pm

 

Didn't notice I'd put the lettering on skew when I repainted her in DSB livery. She's sort of Litra MH but not quite, so I invented a class! icon_rolleyes.gif

 

Incidently, Maerklin do (did?) a nasty version too (mine's bright yellow icon_rolleyes.gif ), but it's not cheap!

__________________________________________

Comment posted by Giz on Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:34 pm

 

Hattons have blue Warships at ??89 and Bulleid composites for ??23.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comment posted by F-UnitMad on Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:04 pm

 

SteveK wrote:

F-UnitMad wrote:

SteveK wrote:

If I were to ... buy the German shunter and call it a 14 without any alterations, ...

Don't let me stop you, but it's footplate is far too wide as it is for British loading gauge... but it's a really good runner- I know, I've got one, waiting for the kit...

I'm getting way ahead of myself, but would it be feasible to remove the footplate and handrails, maybe reposition the steps, and reassemble the model into something near to a scale 9' wide, or is re-bodying the only possible mod?

 

Nothing's impossible given enough time & skill I suppose. The whole footplate is a metal casting on this model- it'd take some major re-working... but is probably easier to do than the more common problem of the body itself being too wide (like the Lima 33)...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.