Steve K Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 ??? posted on Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:35 pm Only 4 weeks after the event, I got around to photographing my latest Fleishmann acquisitions, the blue Warship and set of 3 matching Bulleid carriages from Gaugemaster. Looking at the information of the fixed rakes of these coaches, it seemed the smallest collection I could reasonably get away with was 3 - two of no.5148 (3rd+baggage - Semi Open Brake Third), and one of 5146 (1st+3rd - Corridor composite CK), so this is what I did. One nice thing about these models is that they come with carefully thought-out accessories: blanking plates for the corridor connections at either end of a rake, and transfers for a selection of set numbers for the same. All coaches and locos also have interchangeable couplings - small centre-sprung tension-lock types, and what I assume to be the standard Fleischmann "grab" type (not sure of the technical term!). Anyhow, although most of these pictures were included in the recent dedicated "Fleischmann Warship" thread, it's probably appropriate that I post them here as well, in what is, after all, a thread I started to chronicle my own dabblings in HO. I thought that my green loco was a bargain at ??45, but the ??25 I shelled out for Glory was almost embarrassingly low! I would claim that the track was made to Proto 87 standards, but I think that some of you might rumble me. I hope you'll agree that these are handsome beasts! Note the two types of coupling supplied. Headcodes light up in the direction of travel, but in proportion to the loco's speed - reminds my of my old dynamo-powered lights on my bike... Some more details of the carriages. The end-of-rake blanking plate can be seen fitted to the corridor connection. I'm assuming that, in a rake with two baggage/guards compartments, they top-and-tail the train? Above and below, note the handrails picked out in brassy gold paint. One downside to these otherwise excellent models - I understand that the coach numbers themselves are not totally authentic. For a bit of extra colour, I have posed some old Lima trucks in the foreground. They need a bit of toning down in the livery department, but they aren't too terrible at all, apart from the couplers! Are these evil couplings the ones known in some quarters as "dunny-seat"? They're not easy to handle, that's for sure. Talking of couplings, can anyone offer me an easy way to change them on the Fleischmann stock? I managed on one of the coaches, by removing the bogie and levering the retaining pin out with my thumbnail. Naturally, there was a slight "ping", and said pin went flying across the room. Much carpet-scrabbling later, I found it again, so no harm was done, but I'm sure there has to be a better method, one not involving hands, knees or a magnifying glass. Fleischmann's own instructions merely speak of pulling the coupler firmly from its mount and inserting the replacement, but I can't, for the life of me, see how this could possibly work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 Comment posted by Il Grifone on Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:27 pm The Lima coupling is indeed the "Dunny Seat" for obvious reasons (and because they're cr@p?). They are also a law unto themselves being a different height to everyone else! At least they pull out easily! As to the Fleishmann, I assume they're referring to the NEM pocket from which they should pull out. Otherwise it's down to working in a box to trap flying bits or hack them off and fit something cleverer. __________________________________________ Comment posted by h.bryson on Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:42 pm Unfortunately, the Fleischmann Bulleid coaches are NOT fitted with NEM 362 coupler pockets, even though the generic instructions on the bottom of the box clearly show this type of mounting with a coupler being pulled out of it! The only way to change the couplers is by tweaking the pin out of the coupler pivot hole, and as noted by SteveK this is quite tricky. One good point for Kadee users - the hole that the pin comes out of is in the right place for bolting on a no. 19. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:03 pm Ah, thanks for that, Humphrey - so, I'm not going mad after all! Now I've done one, I shan't be taken so much by surprise when the next pin goes flying past my eyes. What you say about Kadees is interesting, though, and duly noted. Let's say that it's now on the "to do" list, without setting any deadlines... __________________________________________ Comment posted by Loricott on Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:40 am Hello guys, just a couple of notes. For the Lima freight cars, do a couple of simple alterations. Replace the pizza-cutter wheels with some 10.5mm RP-25 units, replace the original couplings with some Kadee #158 and do a minimal weathering --- a dark brown wash will just do. These alterations take 15 minutes at most. Compare the result with an original car and you will not believe your eyes. If you really are into it, you might relocate the brake shoes so that they are aligned with the wheel threads. The plastic Lima used respond very well to Faller plastic cement, but some A/C glue will also do just fine. The Bulleid coaches do deserve a similar wheels and coupler treatment. Fleischmann did, at a certain point, a replacement coupler with a NEM pocket ar the end, but it is very rare nowadays. Actually, as they are finely modelled coaches, it is very easy to forget that they are ancient models, conceived well before any practice we take for granted today was established. Anyway, I do agree: replacing the couplers here is tricky and I managed to do this reliably with a finely tipped pair of needle pliers and some patience. I can offer some suggestions for improvements: 1) use the original couplers (Fleischmann knuckles or hooks) and replace the pin with a suitable brass screw, or 2) replace the coupler with a Ribu 502 unit and a brass screw, or 3) replace the coupler with a Kadee unit (especially if you will run the coaches only through sensible curves) or, 4) do some more hacking and fit some close coupling gear like the Ribu 503 or some Roco equivalent. I also found a fifth approach, but it is not for the faint-hearted: I am replacing the whole underframe end sections with similarly sized sections taken from cheap Roco close coupled bogie freight cars. A Lima restaurant coach has been so treated (also with new bogies, handrails, etc... but this is another story) and it looks and runs beautifully. It is a major surgery, though, and it takes some time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 Comment posted by Loricott on Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:34 am Hi, I just forgot to mention THE method to replace the Fleischmann couplers: first remove the bogies! The Fleischmann bogies are either fitted with a plain plastic pivot or a metal one. If the coach has the plastic one (is the older version), grab the bogie sides and just pull. The bogie will pull out the pivot. The metal one (more modern) is really just a screw --- undo it. Once the bogie is free, put it upright on a flat surface. The coupler pin can be now pushed down without any risk or complication. Take care that there is a thin leaf spring inserted in the bogie frame. It gives the coupler the center-back action. When you remove the coupler, it gets free. __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:49 pm Hi Lorenzo, and thanks for the feedback. Funnily enough, my Bulleids have the plastic bush to retain the bogies, so are the old type, but they were only bought 4 weeks ago. They must have been in the stores at Fleischmann for many years! Although I used my fingernail (and some rude words) to pull the coupler retaining pin, I feel sure that a bent paperclip or other long, thin tool to push it through would be better. You mention also the thin piece of steel which acts as a spring - this, too, went flying, and I had to work out where it belonged. In fact, it's an ingeniously simple method for ensuring that the couplings always return to the centre position. As you say, for a very old model, these coaches are actually pretty good. And at ??9.95 each (assuming you can still find some), I'd recommend them to anyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 Comment posted by CraigZ on Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:59 pm How do those Warships run? Do they have the Fleischmann sidewinder/pancake motor? __________________________________________ ??? posted on Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:09 pm Hi Craig Yes, I believe they do - and traction tyres, too. Essentially, they're very old models. However, although I've not had a chance to test the blue one yet, the green one ran very smoothly at all speeds, and was very nearly silent. I guess that's German engineering for you, unless I just got a particularly good one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 Comment posted by andyman7 on Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:31 am Unfortunately I only realised a couple of days ago that the new owners of Fleischmann had *finally* capitulated and realised that several dozens of old stock HO scale Warships were never going to sell at RRP. As far as I can ascertain, Fleischmann hadn't made any of these for many years, but on principle wouldn't discount to clear the stock. Hence, no DCC sockets, NEM couplers etc on these models - they may be new to you but I reckon they've been hanging round for getting on 30 years! I believe that now that Roco and Fleischmann are in common ownership, the latter brand will only be used for N gauge and vintage steam era models, so there will no doubt be a programme of running down the stocks of various other models. I wonder if anyone will ever have the nerve (or maybe the lunacy) to commission a run of these in maroon if the tooling is still useable. I'd buy one! __________________________________________ Comment posted by Loricott on Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:13 pm Correct, Roco and Fleischmann are both owned by Modelleisenbahn GmbH, which rescued Roco from the bankrupcy back in 2005. There is obviously a process of rationalisation going on, and most duplicate things are bound to disappear --- as an example, I just stumbled onto a new Fleischmann DCC starter kit with a Fleischmann Multimaus (it's gray instead of orange ). Well, this said, I'd say that it would be not difficult at all to get an updated Warship, given that Roco make a splendid model of the V220/V221. I have it at home and, apart from some slimming, it fits the Warship shell like a glove: wheelbase and bogies are just perfect. There is just the issue of adapting the Warship underframe skirts to the V220 and --- voila' --- a Warship with a modern motorisation, DCC socket, NEM couplings and all contemporary goodies. Now that I think of it, I have a motor-broken Warship, a running Roco V220 with a damaged shell and a Proxxon milling machine in the cellar... ...I just catched a glimpse of a solution __________________________________________ Comment posted by 1ngram on Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:52 pm Late as usual I managed to get a Waership and a single coach - 5146 from The Signal Box but the other coaches seem to have all sold out. Any idea who might still have them? __________________________________________ Comment posted by Loricott on Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:44 pm As of today, Gaugemaster has a 5148 in stock and available to ship, for 9.95 GBP. http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?pid=6506 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 Comment posted by 1ngram on Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:13 pm Many thanks for that info. Now if only Gaugemaster can get their ordering set-up working I will buy one, All I get is NO URL now - it would appear the whole system has crashed as its the same whatever BUY button you press. Once I get it all I need is a 5147. Although I am a British H0 modeller (apart from British trams and Russian H0, that is) my interest has been in pre grouping era, specifically the GNSR. I have a kit bashed 4-4-0 and I'm having a GNSR Class S built just now and I have a variety of converted and scratchbuilt coaches and wagons of the 1900 era but the disappearance of the Warship should have alerted me long before now. Best to get this to go with my Roco 08 when I want to try out a more recent period in years to come along with the Bulleids and the various steel mineral wagon kits available from the British 1:87 Society. There is a lot more available for British H0 than you would think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 ... and that, folks, brings us up to the present day (1/12/09). Do feel free to re-enter the fray! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Having to doublehead class 22's to get them to work should get you firmly into the "how realistic etc" challenge. My Dad and I once saw THREE of them on a train at Newquay, and on asking the crew why we were told in no un-certain terms "to make sure the bleddy things get as far as Par!". Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Having to doublehead class 22's to get them to work should get you firmly into the "how realistic etc" challenge. My Dad and I once saw THREE of them on a train at Newquay, and on asking the crew why we were told in no un-certain terms "to make sure the bleddy things get as far as Par!". Ha! It's great to know that Playcraft didn't only produce a stunning looking model - it runs accurately, too! As I inch ever closer (theoretically) to beginning an actual layout, I'm always on the lookout for bits and bobs which might fit the overall scheme of late 60s British HO. On a recent visit to a swapmeet, I picked up the following two items for peanuts: One is a Wiking single-decker bus, which although LHD, looks enough like a typical touring coach for me to consider it for my "British" collection. The other is an ancient Matchbox model of a Ford Thames van, which has been sympathetically (and fairly skilfully) repainted at some point. I haven't measured it, but it seems very close to 1:87. As a result, I shall keep my eye out for older Lesney/Matchbox stuff in future. Another fortuitous find was this: It's a Mini, obviously - in fact, it's from the current range of key-rings being sold as Xmas gifts by Marks & Spencer. You may think that it's a typical Cararama 1:72 item, but I measured it, and it's exactly 35mm long. The real thing is 10ft - you do the maths! Seriously, if anyone's looking for an HO Mini, get yourselves down to M&S. And if you do, I'd love to hear how to get the keychain off it without destroying the model... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 As I inch ever closer (theoretically) to beginning an actual layout, I'm always on the lookout for bits and bobs which might fit the overall scheme of late 60s British HO... When I put these last items away with the rest of my HO bits, I was horrified (but not actually that surprised, if I'm honest!) to see the amount of rolling stock I've accumulated without really coming up with a layout scheme which is in any way likely to come to fruition soon. Indeed, with 7 locos, 2 rakes of carriages and at least 2 dozen items of goods stock, any potential plan has been growing rapidly, while the chance of it becoming real has disappeared off into the distance. Taking stock of the situation, it seems to me that the best way to proceed is to attempt something of a clearout. If I were to focus on 1 Warship with a few coaches and a shunter with some things to shunt, then I think I could concentrate my mind and get something done. A recent post mentioned converting a Lima 33 into a 26/27, and designing a Scottish layout for that and some 21/29s - I need to get ideas like that out of my head, and get back to where my plans began, in the South-West. With that in mind, the otherwise-lovely 33 will have to go, as will the MkII coaches and the Playcraft locos. If they're out of temptation's way, then maybe I'll get my ideas back on track in 2010. I'll be posting something in the classifieds soo, but in the meantime, if anyone's interested in a Fleischmann Warship (your choice of colour) or some other bits and bobs of HO, you know where I am... ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 you could certainly use Warships, 08's and "22"'s in Cornwall (thinking St Blazey here), although Bulleid coaches would be a little harder to justify! Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Indeed, Ed, but as I currently have two Warships, I've decided to scale back a bit. And I already have a 21/29 that's been modified to look a little more like a 22 - as I say, I'm looking to divest myself of some surplus stock to enable a realistic plan to take shape. At the moment, I'm swamped by rolling stock, to the point where I don't know where to start. As for the Bulleid coaches, I'm prepared to move my scheme eastwards until they will fit - I really like the look of the Fleischmann coaches, and would be reluctant to part with them unless someone made me a really good offer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIRR Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Hi Steve, I hope your thinned down assortment of stock enables you to focus on your layout plans. I am in a similar position regarding not actually getting the layout started. I did have an idea of modelling a wagon and carriage repair facility. That would allow a large amount of mainline equipment on a branchline type layout. Another scenario for all the express equipment would be to model a quiet West-country brach with summer holiday specials made up of older caariages. It may not be prototypical, but at least it would look like a reasonably likely scene. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Hi Steve, I hope your thinned down assortment of stock enables you to focus on your layout plans. I am in a similar position regarding not actually getting the layout started... Well, as I say, Andy, that's the plan. There's certainly enough of interest in British HO to make an interesting layout, and the slight size advantage over OO means that a given area will go that little bit further, and any hidden curves can comfortably be 2nd radius. OK, so region-wise, we're restricted to either Scotland (21/29s, 26/27s etc) or the SW (Warships, 33s, even a 22), but that still allows some scope. After my little clearout, I still expect to have 3-4 locos, 3-4 carriages, and enough goods stock for a couple of Inglenook-type shunting puzzles.. Now there's an idea which needn't be years in the planning... ! (Oh, and my local M&S are now selling the last few HO Mini keyrings for ??1.50!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 (Oh, and my local M&S are now selling the last few HO Mini keyrings for ??1.50!) It looks like someone in China is re-using their tooling, the photo above looks a lot like my Mini which came in a nice clear acrylic box rather than on a keyring. Right now I can't find the box to identify the brand... German company Brekina also do a very nice Morris Minor and Rover P6 in HO, as right-hand-drive versions, though for quite a bit more than ??1.50. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 German company Brekina also do a very nice Morris Minor and Rover P6 in HO, as right-hand-drive versions, though for quite a bit more than ??1.50. Yes, I've seen those (and I think someone else mentioned them somewhere) - very nice indeed. Ricko, Rietze and Gaugemaster also do nice selections of HO vehicles which might prove useful to a British modeller. I've seen the Ricko cars for as little as ??2.50, and as much as ??10.00. I'm guessing that the Brekina ones sit toward the higher end of that range? Still cheaper than brand new Wiking stuff, though... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejp Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 I paid a hefty A$26.95 for my Brekina Morris (around ??15), though it didn't come from the cheapest shop in town. It is very good, but at that price I'm not going to be looking too hard for the Rover (there weren't a lot of them on Australian roads anyway, I'm in no hurry to fill my station carpark with uncommon foreign cars). And I've found some packaging from my Mini, it came from Schuco. Mine was bought at show for a third of what I later paid for the Morris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 ??15 - yikes! But a really nice-looking model, all the same. I'd hope that, as a European-made model, the Brekina cars would be somewhat cheaper in the UK. And yes, I'd say that the Schuco Mini is the same as the M&S keyring - the black blob on the headlights is a giveaway. Sizewise, it looks perfect next to the Moggie Minor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K Posted April 7, 2010 Author Share Posted April 7, 2010 Just a little update, something that's been touched upon in other threads, but not this one AFAIK, where it's of some relevance. If anyone has the mad idea of modelling AC electrics in HO (no? me neither - honest!), then I should mention that Polish company Tololoko have started advertising a range of PKP (Polish railways) electric locomotives, including the EU07, EP07 and EP08. From what I have read, all of these were derivatives of the EU06, which in turn was heavily based on the good old English electric class 83. I have no idea about Tololoko's prices (and I suspect I don't want to know - their steam engines, in particular, look very finely detailed), but their range of electric locos is shown here. By way of comparison, there's a nice photo of a full-sized EU06 here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 According to this Wikopedia entry there is no commercial HO following in Britain and its only used by a limited number of people following British prototype. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_transport_modelling_scale_standards Since its on the internet and in Wikopedia, it MUST be true. 8-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 H0 scale was introduced in Britain in the 1920s. No commercial following and used by only a small number of modellers to model the British prototype. It's not actually wrong, but it ignores anyone modelling NA, Europe or anywhere else in the world in HO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhock Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 It's Wikipedia, you could update and change it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock_2007 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I'm sure I was had some UK out-line HO stock by Lima the loco was a class 33 I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Currently the amount of interest in British H0 is at least equal to that in S although the standard of modelling in S is generally a lot higher. There are a number of commercial models currently on the market which can be easily anglicised with several European manufacturers producing Class 66s, Rivarossi doing a USA tank while Roco do the Dutch version of the LMS standard diesel shunter (Later BR Class 11). There are also a number of ferry wagons available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevelewis Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) There was the Rivarossi unrebuilt Royal Scot LMS livery 6100 and a couple of LMS coaches in the 70s, I had the loco and some coaches which I ran on my Garden Railway!! Didnt Fleischhmann do a Warship and some Bullied Coaches in HO scale in the 70s I believe that 'British Trix when they introduced their revamped range' around the same time as the above used a scale of approx 3.8m/foot. The range included some quite good for the time) LNER locos A2 & A4, also a Britannia and I think an L1 Electric, The factory was just up the road from me so to speak in Wrexham Edited January 5, 2014 by Stevelewis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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