Ely area capacity upgrade again...

[uax6]

Heres a link to the latest wish-listing by the railway for the area around Ely.....

 

https://phase2b.elyareacapacity.com/

 

Andy G

[great central]

The £multi millions they've had for consultations could have got half the job done by now, only in the UK

[Michael Hodgson]

The benefit they are seeking from all this amounts to a capacity increase of only

• One extra container train path every hour in each direction
• One extra Kings Lynn-London path every hour
• an increase from 2-hourly to hourly on the Ipswich-Peterborough service

They don't seem to be considering redoubling of the West Curve which would surely remove some conflicts.

 

Converting the single lead junctions back to double track surely doesn't need consultation?  The need for compulsory purchases to remove some crossings and reroute some rights of way no doubt does justify consultation, but do they really need to consult on changing AHBs to full barriers?

[uax6]

The extra Lynn path is a red herring, and probably won't happen until they remove the single line between Littleport and Downham... They did a series of days of testing of a two per hour service a couple of years back, and concluded that there was too little pathing allowance for it to work consistently, hence why £36+millions was spent on adding a carriage siding and lengthening three platforms....

 

I have suggested to them that doubling the west curve and knocking out the Norwich - North of England services from Ely station and sending round the curve (like they used to do) would free up more paths, as would putting the middle road through the station and extending it all the way up to ENJ. 

 

What I do like is the multitude of facing and trailling crossovers, which will allow the bi-di to be used effectively from each road.

 

The full barriers is an interesting one. Depending on what they do, they could accidently fall into the trap of cutting off communities by the design of the barriers. I've sent them a very clear view about what could happen at Littleport, which they were very interested to hear..

 

 

 

Andy G 

Edited October 19, 2021 by uax6

[Michael Hodgson]

47 minutes ago, uax6 said:

The extra Lynn path is a red herring, and probably won't happen until they remove the single line between Littleport and Downham... They did a series of days of testing of a two per hour service a couple of years back, and concluded that there was too little pathing allowance for it to work consistently, hence why £36+millions was spent on adding a carriage siding and lengthening three platforms....

 

I have suggested to them that doubling the west curve and knocking out the Norwich - North of England services from Ely station and sending round the curve (like they used to do) would free up more paths, as would putting the middle road through the station and extending it all the way up to ENJ. 

 

What I do like is the multitude of facing and trailling crossovers, which will allow the bi-di to be used effectively from each road.

 

The full barriers is an interesting one. Depending on what they do, they could accidently fall into the trap of cutting off communities by the design of the barriers. I've sent them a very clear view about what could happen at Littleport, which they were very interested to hear..

 

(as always there is no-one from operations on these projects, so they don't actually understand what the implications of what they want to do will be. Ops only get told at the 11th hour, as we are seen to be difficult, as we always tell projects that what they are doing won't work.....)

 

Andy G 

I don't see them putting the middle road back through the station or tripling the line as far as ENJ, but the bi-di must have improved flexibility even with the existing junction layout

 

 I really like the way the old timetables were worked out so nicely that a train on the west curve managed to cross one the other direction and the routes via Ely also managed not to conflict with one another.  It gave get the impression that ENJ was used as the starting point in designing the whole WTT and the rest of the country had to fit round it!

 

I have to take the cat to Littleport in a week or two as he is registered with the vet on the opposite side of the road from the box ... being fitted with a chip will be the least of the poor chap's problems.  

[KingEdwardII]

12 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

They don't seem to be considering redoubling of the West Curve

Is the West Curve really used that much? Even the one Norwich - Peterborough passenger train per hour in each direction doesn't use it these days, since these call at Ely station. No other passenger trains that I am aware of. How many freight trains per day? The main freight route is up from Felixtowe via Peterborough and does not use the West Curve...

[beast66606]

1 hour ago, KingEdwardII said:

Is the West Curve really used that much? Even the one Norwich - Peterborough passenger train per hour in each direction doesn't use it these days, since these call at Ely station. No other passenger trains that I am aware of. How many freight trains per day? The main freight route is up from Felixtowe via Peterborough and does not use the West Curve...

 

There isn't a Norwich - Peterborough service, it's Ipswich - Peterborough and doesn't need the West Curve.

 

Andy is suggesting that the EMR to/from Norwich to/from Liverpool (/ Nottingham / Sheffield) use the curve rather than Ely station.

 

 

[Zomboid]

16 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

The benefit they are seeking from all this amounts to a capacity increase of only

• One extra container train path every hour in each direction
• One extra Kings Lynn-London path every hour
• an increase from 2-hourly to hourly on the Ipswich-Peterborough service

That's probably all the increase that's needed for now, though the new layout ought to be able to handle more. It's more that the existing arrangement is so constraining that new infrastructure is needed to make even a modest improvement, and once you've turned that stone over doing the job properly and not having to come back in 15 years to re-rebuild it is worthwhile.

 

As for having the Norwich - Peterborough (Nottingham?) service run via the curve, the traffic gained by calling at Ely probably justifies the trip to/ from the station. I doubt there's many trains that run via the curve or much likelihood of and significant new flows that way.; if there were then doubling may well have been proposed.

[KingEdwardII]

2 hours ago, beast66606 said:

There isn't a Norwich - Peterborough service

Hmm, there are plenty of trains direct between Norwich and Peterborough.  The fact that the vast majority go on beyond Peterborough to places like Liverpool doesn't stop them being a Norwich - Peterborough service.

 

The fact that those trains currently all stop at Ely is a change from how things were done in the past. In previous times, the main service was between Norwich and Birmingham and those trains did not stop at Ely and did use the West Curve. I was often going from Brimingham to Cambridge and had to change at Peterborough. Any changes can now be done at Ely, although the main Birmingham service is now to Cambridge/Stanstead. But this also makes the West Curve somewhat redundant, at least for passenger trains.

 

Yours,  Mike.

[beast66606]

44 minutes ago, KingEdwardII said:

Hmm, there are plenty of trains direct between Norwich and Peterborough.  The fact that the vast majority go on beyond Peterborough to places like Liverpool doesn't stop them being a Norwich - Peterborough service.

 

The fact that those trains currently all stop at Ely is a change from how things were done in the past. In previous times, the main service was between Norwich and Birmingham and those trains did not stop at Ely and did use the West Curve. I was often going from Brimingham to Cambridge and had to change at Peterborough. Any changes can now be done at Ely, although the main Birmingham service is now to Cambridge/Stanstead. But this also makes the West Curve somewhat redundant, at least for passenger trains.

 

Yours,  Mike.

 

They are Norwich - Liverpool VIA Peterborough services , otherwise they are Norwich - Wymondham services, or Norwich - Attleborough, or Norwich - Thetford or Norwich - Ely etc. etc.

 

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G91166/2021-10-20/detailed

 

You still seem to be missing Andy's point which was these services should go back to the old way and not stop at Ely

[KingEdwardII]

32 minutes ago, beast66606 said:

You still seem to be missing Andy's point which was these services should go back to the old way and not stop at Ely

No, I've not missed that point at all.

 

However, I don't see the benefit of "going back to the old way" - more connections are available by the trains all stopping at Ely as they do at present. I've done it "the old way" and spent some chilly hours on Peterborough station waiting for connections. I think the current approach is better.

 

Yours, Mike.

[Zomboid]

Going via the curve would be operationally convenient with LHCS, but with there being no need to run round MU stock a reversal takes little longer than the time for the driver to walk the length of the train. So serving Ely with those trains really makes a lot of sense both for the city of Ely and connections.

[ess1uk]

Extra freight trains?

got to be be good