Help Identifying tenders (LMS 3500 Gal)

[Possy92]

Hi all,

 

Recently bought what I thought was a "fowler" tender (3500 gal) as another variant (riveted), (as opposed to flush riveted) to the ex-Airfix ones that come with the 4f and 2p.

 

Have looked online, but need some clarity from the experts!

 

The "larger" one is from the Hornby Patriot

The smaller one is from the Hornby 4f (ignore the bar I've put on the front - I've removed the motor from it)

Both appear to have the same wheel base and wheel size. 

Realise the bigger one has coal rails - but is bigger/taller even without these

 

Pics below show the differences:

 

Are they both 3500 Gallon tenders?

Are they the same design, but the smaller tender is "inaccurate" and too small?, ie, a product of airfix tooling

 

if they are the same, when were they re/built to which design?

 

Kind regards

 

Andy

 

 

 

[markw]

The ex-Airfix one is dimensionally accurate.

The Hornby Patriot one is an approximation designed to fit over the Hornby ringfield motor.

[Steamport Southport]

Yes, I think the Airfix one is correct, if a bit basic and of it's time.

 

For information on Fowler tenders look at the instructions here. Not an exhaustive guide, but gives details of some of the differences.

 

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/Fowler_tender.htm

 

 

Jason

[LMS2968]

Here are the true dimensions:

 

 

[Blandford1969]

5 hours ago, LMS2968 said:

Here are the true dimensions:

 

 

 

Unless its the one fitted to 43435 - In which case that one seems slightly different again. 

[LMS2968]

There were countless differences in detail. Counter sunk rivets for the most part, although Stanier introduced the visible snap head rivets. With or without the overlap panel between the upper sides and tank, then similar panels forming a sort of box shape following the edges. There was beading along the tops of the sides and rear, mostly horizontal on top of the panel, but some vertical and lying flat to it. With and without coal rails, of course, and some early ones did not have doors into the coal space. 

 

You really do need to carefully consult photos with these tenders.

[Wickham Green too]

..... not to mention the choice of tool boxes or access tunnel at the front - or re-used Midland tender chassis which were 'too long' for the body !

[Blandford1969]

I did try contacting Ragstone models about whether they might reduce some of their 7mm versions to 4mm but to no avail. 

 

Does anyone have a drawing or know of one surviving for the tender with  43435?

[Marshall5]

7 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

..... not to mention the choice of tool boxes or access tunnel at the front - or re-used Midland tender chassis which were 'too long' for the body !

.... also ventilators in the coal space (original position) or behind the rear coal plate (later).

Ray.

[Poor Old Bruce]

22 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Unless its the one fitted to 43435 - In which case that one seems slightly different again. 

 

The tender fitted to 43435 was a one-off, re-used from a withdrawn 4-4-0 according to Summerson and was 3250 gallons anyway. 43435 was, of course, a 3F, all other 3Fs were fitted with Johnson tenders.

[Blandford1969]

10 hours ago, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

The tender fitted to 43435 was a one-off, re-used from a withdrawn 4-4-0 according to Summerson and was 3250 gallons anyway. 43435 was, of course, a 3F, all other 3Fs were fitted with Johnson tenders.

Indeed, however the Ragsone instructions suggest the curve down at the front was slightly different.

[Poor Old Bruce]

13 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Indeed, however the Ragsone instructions suggest the curve down at the front was slightly different.

 

The curve at the back was different as well.

[Blandford1969]

On 24/10/2021 at 10:17, Poor Old Bruce said:

 

The curve at the back was different as well.

Do you know of a drawing of it?