Split spoke wheels

[doilum]

Arising from another discussion, when were split spoke wheels phased out from use under mineral wagons? Was there a regulation change for the construction of new wagons, or even one preventing use on the main line?

[kevinlms]

11 minutes ago, doilum said:

Arising from another discussion, when were split spoke wheels phased out from use under mineral wagons? Was there a regulation change for the construction of new wagons, or even one preventing use on the main line?

I don't believe that there was a regulation change to eliminate them. It was more of a case that once they were life expired, then they got scrapped and recycled.

 

AIUI, the only time a wagon was barred from mainline use (assuming fit for the purpose), was when it was marked up 'For internal use only', which meant it was only allowed on the owners private network, where they could maintain to whatever standards they saw fit. An example was the National Coal Board.

 

But here is another thread on spoked wheels, the header says GWR wheels, but it's nearly all generic.

 

 

[doilum]

Thanks for the link. Most informative if only to remind me of the significance of 1923!  I have had an interest in the role of the railways in the immediate pre and post war years for some time now and how wagons dating back to the grouping gave way to the new standardized BR designs.

[PenrithBeacon]

Producing wagon wheels this way was a fairly labour intensive business, disc wheels were cheaper.

[Wickham Green too]

......... once the technology was up to it. 

[PenrithBeacon]

Late 1920s

[hmrspaul]

The construction of split spoke wheels ended during the 1920s but they went on being used into the 1980s. BR was using anything they could get their hands on post WW2 and there are plenty of official photos of newly constructed wagons with split spoke wheels - Shildon seems to have specialised in this, there are officials of the single bolsters with them - and I have a number but all late in life when they were in internal use https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/singlebolster

 

A couple of others

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/bropenmerchandiseowvcorrugated/e1651d78a

https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lms3plankopen/e25e30d1b

 

 

Paul

[Compound2632]

See also:

 

[Wickham Green too]

19 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

The construction of split spoke wheels ended during the 1920s but they went on being used into the 1980s. ......

Because split ( all ? ) spoked wheels had separate tyres they could be re-tyred a number of times before they were retired.

I THINK the earlier disc wheels also had separate tyres ( LMS Dia.2094 drawing calls for "rolled steel centre" ) so I suspect steel 'monobloc' wheels appeared in the UK with WW2 technology.

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Because split ( all ? ) spoked wheels had separate tyres they could be re-tyred a number of times before they were retired.

 

Equally the case for the cast centres of plain spoke wheels.

[Wickham Green too]

I was wondering whether anyone had produced cast steel spoked wagon wheels with integral tyre ........ technically feasible, of course, but did they ? 

[jim.snowdon]

3 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

The construction of split spoke wheels ended during the 1920s

The 1932 series of drawings issued by the RCH for the 20T mineral wagons includes details for wheels with wrought iron split spokes, as well as solid spoke wheels in mild steel and cast steel, and rolled steel disc wheels, which suggests that they were still being made then. Added to that, a trawl through Bill Hudson's volumes on Private Owner wagons will reveal very few built with other than split spoke wheels right through the 1930s. There a few instances of three-hole wheels being used on new wagons during this time, but somewhere in the four volumes, Bill does state that this was only for a relatively short period when these were cheaper than split spoke wheels.

 

As an aside to this, this film, shot in the very early 1950s, is worth watching for the manufacturing processes involved in making three hole wheels -

 

It will be noted that these are what we know as monobloc wheels, ie with an integral tyre. Whilst commonplace these days, these do not appear in the RCH designs, which all feature separate tyres. That is not to say that monobloc wheels were not used on private owner wagons, simply that they would have required specific approval from the RCH.

 

Getting back to traditional wheels, whilst they could be re-tyred ad infinitum, the ultimate limiting factor, technically, is the fatigue life of the axle, ie its propensity to break from repeated bending, as a rather nasty railway accident near Stafford in 1996 demonstrated. Ultrasonic testing of axles is normal these days, but for a very long time the soundness of axles was largely a matter of conservative design coupled with very little knowledge about how far the wagons had travelled, empty and loaded.

 

[kevinlms]

7 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

The 1932 series of drawings issued by the RCH for the 20T mineral wagons includes details for wheels with wrought iron split spokes, as well as solid spoke wheels in mild steel and cast steel, and rolled steel disc wheels, which suggests that they were still being made then. Added to that, a trawl through Bill Hudson's volumes on Private Owner wagons will reveal very few built with other than split spoke wheels right through the 1930s. There a few instances of three-hole wheels being used on new wagons during this time, but somewhere in the four volumes, Bill does state that this was only for a relatively short period when these were cheaper than split spoke wheels.

 

As an aside to this, this film, shot in the very early 1950s, is worth watching for the manufacturing processes involved in making three hole wheels -

 

It will be noted that these are what we know as monobloc wheels, ie with an integral tyre. Whilst commonplace these days, these do not appear in the RCH designs, which all feature separate tyres. That is not to say that monobloc wheels were not used on private owner wagons, simply that they would have required specific approval from the RCH.

 

Getting back to traditional wheels, whilst they could be re-tyred ad infinitum, the ultimate limiting factor, technically, is the fatigue life of the axle, ie its propensity to break from repeated bending, as a rather nasty railway accident near Stafford in 1996 demonstrated. Ultrasonic testing of axles is normal these days, but for a very long time the soundness of axles was largely a matter of conservative design coupled with very little knowledge about how far the wagons had travelled, empty and loaded.

 

And wheel tappers!

 

 

[doilum]

Many thanks to all. Please feel free to continue to expand my understanding of wagon stock in the immediate post war years.

[Steamport Southport]

8 hours ago, kevinlms said:

And wheel tappers!

 

 

 

The most famous wheeltapper. Poor quality, but I think the full film is on there somewhere.