Suggestions Sought for Hornby Trakmat Extension 4 Layout

[RJS1977]

I've just had a go at scribbling in a scenic treatment on Chris's plan, with an industrial area off the front edge (I'd been thinking of the layout as having a central well though I've just realised your photo shows there isn't one, so you may need to revise my plan slightly).

 

 

The plan has two Metcalfe warehouses in the bottom right corner, one 'in the round', and one low relief, connected by a wooden bridge (if space ever became available, the siding could be extended under the bridge to a further yard). I'd envisaged a backscene with a warehouse on it along the front edge, with a couple of covered loading areas. However if you will be viewing/operating the layout from this side, the baseboard edge could alternatively be finished off as a quayside ( https://scalescenes.com/product/t016-dock-edge/ ). There is a small loading platform and another industrial building. I've also suggested another small platform in the goods yard which could either be a loading platform with a crane, or a cattle dock. There probably also ought to be some coal staithes in the yard too.

 

You may be able to squeeze a n arrow platform in between the two inner curves towards the right hand end, especially if you stick to 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 tank locos with 4-wheel coaches. If not, you should be able to move the outer inner curve(!) outwards by the length of a half straight.

 

I've suggested relocating the crossover that was next to the diamond crossing, for three reasons

(1) it will allow the 'inner outer curve' to be moved outwards to enable an island platform between the two curves.

(2) it allows access from the outer loop to the 'inner inner curve' if needed.

(3) it makes it easier to shunt between the inner and outer sets of sidings.

 

As you said you wanted a (semi) rural location, I've allowed for this by putting the outer curves in a tunnel (which should be open on the RH side for access). This will also help break up the oval, and provides somewhere where two trains can be hidden out of sight.

 

Operationally, I'd suggest:

Two goods trains in the tunnel.

Passenger trains in the station.

A smattering of wagons in the goods yard, with a shunter on the headshunt.

Another shunter (nominally based in the engine shed at the bottom of the plan, but more usually at the buffer stops between the two warehouses, and some wagons in the upper of the two bottom sidings.

 

Outer goods train (clockwise): The outer goods train runs past the connection to the lower sidings and reverses into the headshunt. There it uncouples the wagons, returns to the main line and then runs into the short loco siding by the station. The lower shunter pushes the wagons into the upper siding and uncouples everything except the brake van. It then runs to the lower siding via the headshunt, picks up half the wagons there, returns to the upper siding, picks up half the wagons from that siding, runs back into the headshunt and uncouples. The main loco then comes back, picks up the train and returns to the tunnel via the level crossing. The shunter then picks up the wagons from the lower siding, then the wagons from the upper siding, and shunts the whole lot to the lower siding (so that the wagons which were at the far end of the siding before are now at the near end). The loco then runs back to the headshunt and the process repeats.

 

Inner goods train (anticlockwise): The train leaves the tunnel, crosses the level crossing and stops in the bottom left corner of the circuit. It uncouples the rear half of its train, draws forwards, sets back into the yard and drops the rear half off in the siding adjacent to the goods shed, before picking the rest of its train up and returning to the tunnel. The upper yard shunter then swaps the wagons that have been dropped off for the ones in the other sidings. The next time the (shorter) train comes round, it leaves the brake van on the main line, the loco and wagons set down into the yard and pick up the wagons alongside the goods shed. The wagons are then shunted on to the brake van and the train returns to the tunnel.

 

There is also opportunity for the upper yard shunter to swap wagons between the upper and lower yards - hence moving the crossover between the inner and outer loops so that the movement can clear the crossover without running into the train on the inner loop in the tunnel.

 

Passenger trains run as required between everything else!  

[RJS1977]

31 minutes ago, latestarter said:

 

 

Signalboxes now marked in orange - one between the top junction and the level crossing, the other close to the lower junction (the goods yard doesn't need a signal box as points there would be likely to be worked by hand).

 

 

Of course, the signal box windows should overlook the track.... ;-)

[latestarter]

@RJS1977thank you so much. Invaluable advice and exactly what I need. I'll print it out and have a good read tomorrow.

[latestarter]

28 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Signalboxes now marked in orange - one between the top junction and the level crossing, the other close to the lower junction (the goods yard doesn't need a signal box as points there would be likely to be worked by hand).

 

 

Of course, the signal box windows should overlook the track.... ;-)

 

I realised I had put it down the wrong way around after I took the photo. Can you let me know what the 2 blue lines, and the single red line indicate, when you have time please? I assume the other red markings are footbridges. Also, are you advising that the engine shed straddles the track (as in my Metcalfe) with the warehouse behind it, although there is no road access? This is brilliant help, I really appreciate your time.

[RJS1977]

The two blue lines and the red line are to show relocation of one of the crossovers (red line crosses out its current position, blue lines are the new position). Other red markings are tunnel mouths.

 

The engine shed straddles the track (all engine sheds do....), and the warehouse is next to it (or behind it, depending on your point of view). I'd originally envisaged road access to the warehouse being off the baseboard edge (thinking of centre operation). Alternatively, if you operate from the front and finish the baseboard edge as a quayside, then the warehouse is for transhipment between boat and train and no road access is needed.

[Kris]

Just quickly change the track to represent the version by @RJS1977

Again it does not need any extra track. 

[latestarter]

Thanks again @Krisit's very useful. @RJS1977 also sent me a written explanation. I'm looking forward to working on the layout again today using both. Give another 10 years and I might be able to work it out for myself.

Edited November 5, 2021 by latestarter

[latestarter]

@Kris @RJS1977 @The Johnster Well, the layout, is complete minus a few omissions including one very important, but small, track piece. The R643 I received by courier yesterday has gone missing (unless it's hiding in another part of the track). So, I had to order another one. I also found myself short of some R601's, assuming I read the plans correctly. I'm going to clean it with a track rubber later and check all the connections.

Interestingly, I am getting power throughout the layout with just a 4 amp transformer and the Hornby Select controller. I won't be leaving it like that, and the soldering iron has been ordered. I am 75% decided that I will tackle the wiring myself (rather than bring someone in to do it). But, I'll practice on some spare track first - I seem to have loads of curves, but no R643.

Thanks again for getting me started. @Kris and @RJS1977 I really prefer this layout to the one I had been planning originally and your help in invaluable.

Keep the thoughts on the layout coming everyone...e.g. would you put a fence on the extreme bottom edge of the board, along the lowest siding?

I may start several new threads soon, when I get into wiring, ballasting and scenery.

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by latestarter

[Kris]

I would put something next to the lower edge, the last thing that you want is to knock a loco or other stock off. Possibly a short clear perspex fence would work. 

 

Glad that you like the plan. It was an enjoyable bit of creation. 

[The Johnster]

24 minutes ago, latestarter said:

The R643 I received by courier yesterday has gone missing (unless it's hiding in another part of the track). So, I had to order another one.

 

My standard method.  As soon as the money for the second one goes from you account, you're guaranteed to find the first one which was (apparently) in plain sight all the time, but will dissappear instantly should you cancel the order.  I suspect that this may be further evidence of activity by the Space Elves from the planet Zarg, who mishievously steal single sock using their highly advanced technology and replace them with wire coat hangers and hair clips.

 

25 minutes ago, latestarter said:

I am 75% decided that I will tackle the wiring myself (rather than bring someone in to do it).

 

100% sound reasoning; only you will be able to wire the layout exactly the way you want and only you understand the way you intend to operate it.  Anybody else, no matter how expert, will get it wrong, but you won't (though you may get it 'differently right).  You are already getting power everywhere, so track wiring is a matter of bypass wiring to eliminate possible problems with point blades and their electrical connection to the stock rails, and deciding if you want any sidings to be electrically isolated by the the turnouts.  Then there will be the point motors and any future signalling requirments you might have, but it's proabably a bit early to worry too much about signalling just yet.

 

The track laying looks like a quality job, so well done.  The two sidings bottom right need a bit of tweaking; the inner one next to the up main is too close to it for clearance and the outer one is perilously close to the edge of the world, and I'd recommend a fence, wall. or low relief building here to contain things.  There will be a limit to how far you can correct this without them fouling each other, but the inner road needs to come south a bit and the outer one needs to go north.

 

I like the track plan.  There is a massive amount of operating potential, the headshunts enabling you to carry out shunting operations (I love shunting) while the main line action is continuing, or just watch trains going round if you're not in the mood.  You can route traffic from one siding to another in a different part of the layout, and recreate a basic representation of a good variety of real railway operations. 

 

One of us, one of us...

 

 

[latestarter]

28 minutes ago, Kris said:

I would put something next to the lower edge, the last thing that you want is to knock a loco or other stock off. Possibly a short clear perspex fence would work. 

 

Glad that you like the plan. It was an enjoyable bit of creation. 

The guy who makes the baseboards also mentioned the lower edge camera and he has offered to make me a ledge.

 

I really do like the plan it feels very grown up and has made me determined to take it forward seriously, rather than just playing with a train set.

Edited November 5, 2021 by latestarter

[latestarter]

9 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I suspect that this may be further evidence of activity by the Space Elves from the planet Zarg, who mishievously steal single sock using their highly advanced technology and replace them with wire coat hangers and hair clips.

 

I am relieved to hear that I'm not the only one tormented by the Zarg Space Elves .

Quote

You are already getting power everywhere, so track wiring is a matter of bypass wiring to eliminate possible problems with point blades and their electrical connection to the stock rails, and deciding if you want any sidings to be electrically isolated by the the turnouts. 

I am suddenly acutely aware that my limited grasp of the Russian language, is infinitesimally greater than my grasp of model rail speak! 

Quote

The track laying looks like a quality job, so well done.  The two sidings bottom right need a bit of tweaking; the inner one next to the up main is too close to it for clearance and the outer one is perilously close to the edge of the world, and I'd recommend a fence, wall. or low relief building here to contain things. 

There will be a limit to how far you can correct this without them fouling each other, but the inner road needs to come south a bit and the outer one needs to go north.

Thank you for the compliment. The guy who made the baseboard has just offered to make me a ledge for the bottom edge, as he also commented on the proximity of the track to the end of the world, when I sent him a photo.

If you can advise on how to take the outer road northwards, I would be very interested to hear about it.

[Going Spare]

I think you will find your "missing" R643 sitting between the curved point and the diamond crossing, the plans published earlier show them without any track in between. 

[Going Spare]

As the substitution will not affect the overall length of the layout, consider replacing the two points feeding the bottom siding with 'Express' points as they will have the effect of bringing the two sidings a little closer together (away from the edge).

[latestarter]

@Going SpareThanks for that. I was fairly sure I had used it but couldn't remember where. I found it with your help.

 

What's really weird is that the gap seems to close now!

Edited November 5, 2021 by latestarter

[RJS1977]

Good to see it coming together, and that there clearly is space for a station platform where I suggested it.

 

On the other hand, there isn't room for the engine shed where I suggested that (track too close to the baseboard edge), but if you extend the siding with the two wagons on it slightly, your engine shed should fit there. 

[latestarter]

3 hours ago, Going Spare said:

As the substitution will not affect the overall length of the layout, consider replacing the two points feeding the bottom siding with 'Express' points as they will have the effect of bringing the two sidings a little closer together (away from the edge).

I've never heard of them, but I will try and find some. Do you know if Hornby make them? If not who else might in code 100?

[Going Spare]

Hornby R8077 & R8078.  The turnout angle is more gentle than Hornby's standard points, bringing the tracks closer together but the points themselves are longer.

[latestarter]

56 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

Good to see it coming together, and that there clearly is space for a station platform where I suggested it.

 

On the other hand, there isn't room for the engine shed where I suggested that (track too close to the baseboard edge), but if you extend the siding with the two wagons on it slightly, your engine shed should fit there. 

Thanks again. At the moment, if I'm not in the 'railway room', I'm reading your information on how to model the layout - really helpful stuff. Unfortunately, I haven't had a shower or washed a shirt in days!

I've ordered some extra R600's (I ran out for some reason) for I'll look at ending the siding when they come. I've also got a lot of curves (R605, R605, R607, R608 & R609), not sure how I ended up with so much and no idea what to so with it. I have considered a 'programming track' for the DCC locos, but can't think of anything else.

I've come across an issue of derailment on some of the points on the lower sidings, especially where there is a series of points. I'm fairly sure it's a problem with the locos and not the track. The Hornby R48 Ruston shunter tens to derail at the flatbed wagon. It's OK when there's a bit of (very gentle) downward pressure on the loco, so, I may need to find a way to add some weight to it.

My Bachmann Class 2MT Ivatt 2-6-0 tends to derail at the tender. I had already added some weight under the tender (a couple of large nuts) as I had read about this issue with the Ivatt. If I keep up the speed I can usually get it through the points, but not always.

[latestarter]

4 minutes ago, Going Spare said:

Hornby R8077 & R8078.  The turnout angle is more gentle than Hornby's standard points, bringing the tracks closer together but the points themselves are longer.

Brilliant, thank you I'll call my model railway dealer about them on Monday. I wonder if they might help with my derailment issue (see above)?

UPDATE: I just looked them up, and actually I think I might have some on the layout, higher up.

Edited November 5, 2021 by latestarter

[Going Spare]

May help, may not.  Hornby points seem to be gathering notoriety for the area in the region of the plastic frog being raised and needing an additional track pin to be used in that area to get the point to lay completely flat.

As you have placed a fair amount of business with your dealer, perhaps they may feel able to make you an offer for the unwanted track against future purchases?

[JDW]

It has certainly come on a lot since the first post, and looks much better for it. If I may be permitted to suggest another modification, depending on whether you want a tunnel or not I'd move both the 'cut-off' loops further to the right (ie by the length of one R600) and get rid of that short stub of a siding where you have the red and grey wagon. That would give the impression of a main line and loops with the centre station platform, it would get rid of a potentially hard to use crescent shaped space where that short stub siding is, and would give you a bit of extra lenght/space in the centre for the goods yard area. The curved point you take out could possibly be used to add an extra siding there instead.

[latestarter]

9 minutes ago, JDW said:

It has certainly come on a lot since the first post, and looks much better for it. If I may be permitted to suggest another modification, depending on whether you want a tunnel or not I'd move both the 'cut-off' loops further to the right (ie by the length of one R600) and get rid of that short stub of a siding where you have the red and grey wagon. That would give the impression of a main line and loops with the centre station platform, it would get rid of a potentially hard to use crescent shaped space where that short stub siding is, and would give you a bit of extra lenght/space in the centre for the goods yard area. The curved point you take out could possibly be used to add an extra siding there instead.

I might need to to ask you for a little bit more step-by-step on this as we may be thinking of a different 'right hand' side. The last photo I posted is looking end on rather than straight on at the board. I can't quite see which piece I need to move and how. Sorry I'm still getting my head around the terminology but I would like to try out your design if possible.

[JDW]

The right hand end as in the drawn plans and your first photo from the side. The same end shown by your last photo.

That crescent shaped area which has nothing in it bar the little siding with the two wagons on - looking at your last photo I'd move the points and crossovers for the 'inner' pair of curves (the ones where the grey platform is in RJS1977's drawing) as far towards the 'outer' pair of curves as you can to minimise the wasted space. In other words, bring the 'inner' pair of curves as close to the 'outer' pair as you can. Does that make any more sense?

[latestarter]

@jwdthanks. I am finding it easier to work these things out while doing them practically. I'm the same with the diagrams, I put the pieces together as I read the plan. I'll have a go tomorrow and come back to you. I appreciate your help.