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Graham Farish 2021 Winter announcements


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42 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

Let me guess - your local shop is Kernow models? Not exactly representative.

 

If that was his local shop why wouldn't that be representative? The Kernow shop in Guilford is near me - would that count. And these days with many closing and few remaining there are probably not many model shops that could be considered local enough to visit. Consequently many people mail order their modelling purchases these days.

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1 hour ago, grahame said:

 

If that was his local shop why wouldn't that be representative? The Kernow shop in Guilford is near me - would that count. And these days with many closing and few remaining there are probably not many model shops that could be considered local enough to visit. Consequently many people mail order their modelling purchases these days.

 

Going back again to the start of the relevant point - could you go into a local shop and get a loco - 8F was mentioned - along with a train of suitable  wagons -16t coal wagons. Kernow would not be representative as they have a major online presence and although the Cornish shop is 'compact' it carries a lot more stock that the average shop.  Your last two sentences either mean you are agreeing with me (but that is not the tone) or you have nor been following the point.:scratchhead:  

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11 hours ago, Bomag said:

 

 

In terms of LMR (8F) coal trains I have not seen a picture of a fitted head to a coal train. Vans and mixed, yes but not a rake of 16T coal.

Typically all unfitted agreed, but there were plenty of fitted 16 Tonners around too, and I feel sure prototypical trains can be found.

 

I did happen to wander off and have a look for more info on the various types of 16T wagon and their uses, anything from coal to sand, sugar-beet to scrap and of course mineral ores. A fascinating if long read on this very site: -

 

16t minerals - Page 92 - Modelling musings & miscellany - RMweb

 

Roy

 

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11 hours ago, Bomag said:

 

Going back again to the start of the relevant point - could you go into a local shop and get a loco - 8F was mentioned - along with a train of suitable  wagons -16t coal wagons. Kernow would not be representative as they have a major online presence . . . 

 

Personally I think you're being over picky about a point. The fact is that, as Roy has pointed out, Bachmann has plenty of stock of mineral opens at their warehouse, as Kris has pointed out that his local shop has stock and as I've pointed out that it is possible to mail order requirements, rather makes any assertion it's not possible to get hold of such models redundant. I would not need to go into a local shop but could certainly acquire them.

 

 

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23 hours ago, grahame said:

Bachmann has plenty of stock of mineral opens at their warehouse

 

But no 8Fs! (and only the LNER livery one left in most shops).

 

At least with wagons you can fill in spaces with the Peco & Dapol ranges. It gets a bit trickier if you're after an extra Maroon Mk1 SK or Mk2a...

 

Steven B.

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On 08/11/2021 at 13:23, Steven B said:

 

But no 8Fs! (and only the LNER livery one left in most shops).

 

At least with wagons you can fill in spaces with the Peco & Dapol ranges. It gets a bit trickier if you're after an extra Maroon Mk1 SK or Mk2a...

 

Steven B.

The LNER 8F variant was a real oddball choice and given the very restricted timeframe they operated in it was (in my opinion anyway) never likely to be a strong seller, to be honest a better choice would have been a weathered BR variant alongside the other two BR ones, but here we are.

 

It shouldn't be a difficult job though, using Fox "obliteration patches" to cover the old LNER numbers and lettering to convert it to a BR or even LMS one and I'll be on the lookout for a reasonably cheap one in time to do just that. 

 

A fair point re: wagons v's coaches, I am just glad I built up my maroon Mk1 stock when they were more freely available. I know there will be constraints on production capacity, but there would be so much more demand for Mk1s in Maroon and Blue/Grey than in the oddball test train type liveries that the few coaches we do see come through in. In this respect there does need to be a little more joined up thinking in my opinion to leverage the most effective use of such production slots as there are. Oddball liveries do not align to maintaining a credible supply of mainstream items and I feel that priority should instead be given to maintaining supply of a few of the more common Mk1 coaches in the two liveries.

 

Roy

 

 

Edited by Roy L S
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7 hours ago, Roy L S said:

A fair point re: wagons v's coaches, I am just glad I built up my maroon Mk1 stock when they were more freely available. I know there will be constraints on production capacity, but there would be so much more demand for Mk1s in Maroon and Blue/Grey than in the oddball test train type liveries that the few coaches we do see come through in. In this respect there does need to be a little more joined up thinking in my opinion to leverage the most effective use of such production slots as there are. Oddball liveries do not align to maintaining a credible supply of mainstream items and I feel that priority should instead be given to maintaining supply of a few of the more common Mk1 coaches in the two liveries.

 

I think the oddball liveries do have their rightful place in the range, but they should be there to augment the staple mainstream rather than as is currently the case of being the mainstay of the range. If they picked their 'oddballs', they could tie in to the more common types. Oddities like a handful of crimson/cream or choc/cream Mk2 for charter rakes of the past decade would do well. Those would tie in nicely with the '50s and '60s Mk1s, and being charter coaches they provide a legitimate place for all those left over first class Mk1 coaches which linger on for years after the rest of the range has disappeared. Sadly under the current climate I could see a Mk2a or F TSO appearing in crimson/cream (yet not another B/G or IC run to augment the last models) then having to wait a few years for anything else to come along.

 

You're not alone waiting patiently for a reduction on an LNER 8F, a bit of Mr Muscle or IPA and its a nice easy blank canvas for renumbering.

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2 hours ago, Zunnan said:

You're not alone waiting patiently for a reduction on an LNER 8F, a bit of Mr Muscle or IPA and its a nice easy blank canvas for renumbering.

 

Currently 20% off RRP at TMC....

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59 minutes ago, Davexoc said:

 

Currently 20% off RRP at TMC....

 

I'll be waiting to see if they reach clearance. The layout isn't booked for exhibition so its not going out on the road for at least 12 months while we grapple with damp storage damage from the lockdown period. I can quite happily either wait or do without when it comes to acquiring something that is basically just a whimsical extra. To be honest, on a prototype where 2F, 3F and 4F were king, the current two 8Fs in the fleet on top of four Black 5s and ten various 0-6-0s is already overkill. To tempt a third 8F out of me, the price would have to be very right indeed.

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A big mystery for me is the lack of Virgin air cons over the last decade - surely a universally popular essential item for modern passenger operations? Perhaps Bachfar aren't keen on the licensing fee?

 

I also don't understand the lack of modern (2000s) DMUs, given many have had a wide range of liveries and are an easy cash cow in 00.

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New tooling 158 has been in development for what seems like years to replace the rubbish old Poole era one so they are coming, just very slowly.

 

Thankfully Dapol have the 156 to keep us happy for now.

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4 hours ago, fezza said:

A big mystery for me is the lack of Virgin air cons over the last decade - surely a universally popular essential item for modern passenger operations? Perhaps Bachfar aren't keen on the licensing fee?

 

I also don't understand the lack of modern (2000s) DMUs, given many have had a wide range of liveries and are an easy cash cow in 00.

Development of new (Graham Farish) models and production of existing (Graham Farish) models is appears to be a very very low priority* for Bachmann and has been this way for several years now. They have concentrated their efforts in OO and OO9 to the point where they have significantly devalued the brand of Graham Farish to that of "also ran" when looking at N gauge manufactures. If they are not careful "also ran" will turn into fell at the fence and was shot. 

 

* with the exception of Lilliput Lane models (sorry Scenecraft) for which there appears to be a dozen or more new models every quarter.

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2 hours ago, Kris said:

Development of new (Graham Farish) models and production of existing (Graham Farish) models is appears to be a very very low priority* for Bachmann and has been this way for several years now. They have concentrated their efforts in OO and OO9 to the point where they have significantly devalued the brand of Graham Farish to that of "also ran" when looking at N gauge manufactures. If they are not careful "also ran" will turn into fell at the fence and was shot. 

 

* with the exception of Lilliput Lane models (sorry Scenecraft) for which there appears to be a dozen or more new models every quarter.

 

That's what I find doubly annoying about the lack of new items from Farish, it's that often in the announcements there are more new items for 009 modellers than there are for N modellers!

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2 hours ago, Kris said:

Development of new (Graham Farish) models and production of existing (Graham Farish) models is appears to be a very very low priority* for Bachmann and has been this way for several years now. They have concentrated their efforts in OO and OO9 to the point where they have significantly devalued the brand of Graham Farish to that of "also ran" when looking at N gauge manufactures. If they are not careful "also ran" will turn into fell at the fence and was shot. 

 

* with the exception of Lilliput Lane models (sorry Scenecraft) for which there appears to be a dozen or more new models every quarter.

How can Graham Farish be the also ran, their output exceeds RevolutioN, Rapido and Sonic, the problem is that everyone buys up the content leaving nothing in the shops.

 

Dapol only produce so much by keep churning out more of the same, the only new locomotives in N of late have been the 50 and the 68 along with the low quality 142.

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8 hours ago, fezza said:

I also don't understand the lack of modern (2000s) DMUs, given many have had a wide range of liveries and are an easy cash cow in 00.

 

There are or have been available far more second generation onward DMUs (of mixed quality/fidelity), than there are of first generation DMUs.

 

101, 108, 121, 122, (128 in development) vs 142, 150, 153, 156, 158, 168, 170, 220, 221

 

I do wonder who will actually do the 117, Farish as they have the OO version, Dapol as they have done the 121, or once they have delivered the 128, RevolutioN?

What are the odds on all three announcing it at Alley Pally?

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Release dates until Aug/Sep:

Nov/Dec
LMS Inspection Saloon X3
BR TTA X3
LMS Brake Van X4

 

Jan/Feb
03 X3
04 X3
MK1 BG X4
BR Ventilated Van X3
BR Insulated Van X3
MR Brake Van X3
LNER Ventilated Van X3

EFE Rail JIA X12

 

Feb/Mar
150 X6
319 X3
MK 2A X3
Coach pack 374-996
JPA X2

 

Mar/Apr
08 X2
101 X4
Coach pack 374-995

 

May/Jun
LMS Stanier Full Brake X2
24T Iron Ore Hopper wagon X3
BR Brake Van X3

 

Jun/Jul
37 X7
MK1 Suburban X5
Conflat Wagon X6

 

Aug/Sep
60 X5

 

Info from the Bachmann website

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1 hour ago, Paul.Uni said:

Release dates until Aug/Sep:

Nov/Dec
LMS Inspection Saloon X3
BR TTA X3
LMS Brake Van X4

 

Jan/Feb
03 X3
04 X3
MK1 BG X4
BR Ventilated Van X3
BR Insulated Van X3
MR Brake Van X3
LNER Ventilated Van X3

EFE Rail JIA X12

 

Feb/Mar
150 X6
319 X3
MK 2A X3
Coach pack 374-996
JPA X2

 

Mar/Apr
08 X2
101 X4
Coach pack 374-995

 

May/Jun
LMS Stanier Full Brake X2
24T Iron Ore Hopper wagon X3
BR Brake Van X3

 

Jun/Jul
37 X7
MK1 Suburban X5
Conflat Wagon X6

 

Aug/Sep
60 X5

 

Info from the Bachmann website

 

Yes its that bad  - 25 releases in a year. If you exclude the EFE that's probably a single complete new model (319), 3 Chassis upgrade locos and a load of reruns. I would say that I would like 'much' more but with current prices I just think some more B/G Mk2s and B/G and maroon Mk1s (even if they are only TSO/SO/SK) would go down well with a large percentage of modellers. I gave up on Farish for this quarter and spent this quarters' modelling budget with Revolution.

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Looked at another way that is almost 100 new models in that period, and almost all of them will sell out. I am only in for 1x319 and an MR brake van for my Landship Train, but those 100 models represent a significant commitment to N however you look at it. When the China Clay  JIAs see the light of day I may be buying some if the weathering is convincing enough.

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12 hours ago, Paul.Uni said:

Release dates until Aug/Sep:

Nov/Dec
LMS Inspection Saloon X3
BR TTA X3
LMS Brake Van X4

 

Jan/Feb
03 X3
04 X3
MK1 BG X4
BR Ventilated Van X3
BR Insulated Van X3
MR Brake Van X3
LNER Ventilated Van X3

EFE Rail JIA X12

 

Feb/Mar
150 X6
319 X3
MK 2A X3
Coach pack 374-996
JPA X2

 

Mar/Apr
08 X2
101 X4
Coach pack 374-995

 

May/Jun
LMS Stanier Full Brake X2
24T Iron Ore Hopper wagon X3
BR Brake Van X3

 

Jun/Jul
37 X7
MK1 Suburban X5
Conflat Wagon X6

 

Aug/Sep
60 X5

 

Info from the Bachmann website

But these are just the announced items, each quarter new items are announced in the new format so will be items ready for delivery rather than item announced many years ago.

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17 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Dapol only produce so much by keep churning out more of the same

 

I'm sure many would be happy if Farish churned out a bit more of the same - such as the more common SK/SO/TSO in Mk1 & Mk2a that haven't been available for what feels like a life-time.

 

@AY Mod next time you (or anyone else from BRM!) talk to Bachmann, would you be able to ask why bread'n'butter models like the Maroon Mk1 SK, and Mk2a TSO in blue/grey haven't been produced for so long? With the Mk2s TSO regularly selling on eBay for >£70 there's clearly a demand.

 

Steven B.

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Well with any luck Feb/Mar will be an expensive time for me. :D

 

New CL150 liveries, CL319, and more Castle Cement JPA's to finish up my rake.

 

And to speak to the "bread & butter" models requests, my version would be modern-ish MU's plus more standard livery CL66's rather then the one off liveries, not MK1/Mk2 coaching stock.

And that's the rub, Farish are addressing a very diverse market so 3/4 of the people will probably be unhappy most of the time.

 

Regards,

 

John P

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2 hours ago, Steven B said:

@AY Mod next time you (or anyone else from BRM!) talk to Bachmann, would you be able to ask why bread'n'butter models like the Maroon Mk1 SK, and Mk2a TSO in blue/grey haven't been produced for so long? With the Mk2s TSO regularly selling on eBay for >£70 there's clearly a demand.

 

Customers can contact Bachmann directly you know; I'm not an MP. :P

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I understand people want more Mk1 and Mk2 coaches in standard liveries and can see why this is an issue.

 

But if Bachmann did set aside regular slots to produce these as 'bread n butter' models, then there would be several issues:

  1. Producing models to sit on shelves 'just in case' creates an unsold stock problem.  If you were a manufacturer and you had an option to sell something that won't sell immediately versus another item that will sell out quickly which would you choose.  I know about the argument of speculating to accumulate, and that lots of Mk1s would then potentially lead to more loco sales which leads to more models being shifted and perhaps new entrants.   However, if the stock they are already producing is moving then they have no need to speculate.
  2. Setting aside production of regular runs of Mk1 and Mk2 coaches removes other slots to produce other models.  Everything is a finite resource, no manufacturer has unlimited resources (unless you are making electic cars and space rockets perhaps :D).  Every item produced is a decision to produce that particular model instead of another potential model.
  3. If they were to set aside production for bread n butter models, eventually sales will dry up and new bread n butter items will be cried out for by modellers.  Do you abandon the first set of bread n butter models that are now stacking up and replace with a new bread n butter item - causing eventually another cry out of the first bread n butter item several years later when stocks have gone or plough on producing yet more and more bread n butter models, all the time reducing capacity for new models and taking up warehousing.

I agree, there needs to be a balance and no doubt Bachmann are making these choices every day, week and month of the year - which items do we produce, when do we produce them and will they sell - but against a finite schedule of slots to produce models in China an up against all the other parts of Kader also promoting their models to the head office vying to get as many slots as possible.

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1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

I agree, there needs to be a balance and no doubt Bachmann are making these choices every day, week and month of the year - which items do we produce, when do we produce them and will they sell - but against a finite schedule of slots to produce models in China an up against all the other parts of Kader also promoting their models to the head office vying to get as many slots as possible.

The balance at Bachmann / Kader seems to be based on which models will make the most money as individual models, not which models best support the growth of the hobby. 

I can understand the approach of the accountants at Kader but to my eyes it is significantly harming the hobby, particularly in N gauge.

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