L-Girder Baseboard Structure - Some help and advice please

[BWsTrains]

I'm planning an "L" shaped layout measuring 4.1m (~14ft) by 1.45m (~5ft) which backs onto walls along the entire outside of the "L" as shown here.

 

 

As I work in metric units, I've set this grid to 1ft square to help those who think / work in Feet.

Layout has no gradients.

 

The colours define various areas:

Grey: the open access space in front of the layout (omitted here is further shading on the free access at the extreme right of the plan)

Pale Blue: the baseboard area which I require (some overlaid with a footprint for the base structure and storage yard

Green boxes: My first estimate of the L-Girder footprint, assuming my carpenter can get 2m or 2.1m lengths of the required timbers. Set at 400mm width (15.7in). Will need to extend further to right but a minor detail.

Red "X"s on layout area: mark the likely locations of access required for point motors (note: not including those "X"s marking the edge coordinates!)

 

My questions relate to the adequacy of the initial design and how I should address the current substantial overhang areas at the top and bend of the "L".

Initial thoughts include having a wider L Girder section ~600mm under the Right storage area and an angled girder of some description spanning the turn of the "L".

 

All constructive feedback will be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DCB]

How high off the floor is it?   If it's 3ft ish I would put a diagonal right across from the 1400,mm on the left to the 2000mm on the top.  If your timbers aren't long enough use two screwed or bolted together with as much overlap as you can.

If its high I would simply triangulate the corner.   

Is it actually and L girder, two timbers making an L shape when seen end on? (Or a T) The beauty of L girders, you can use all sorts of stuff for the frames at any old angles to support the track bed. and string the scenery between.   Yours looks like conventional UK flat top to me.     Lots of layouts lose credibility as the track is at the lowest level, Generally they look much better if there is scenery below the track, streams, roads under the tracks etc...

[kevinlms]

Have you got a copy of

 

Linn Hanson Westcott's book

 

Model Railroad Benchwork, How to Build

 

Your answers are all there.

 

[BWsTrains]

7 minutes ago, DCB said:

How high off the floor is it?   If it's 3ft ish I would put a diagonal right across from the 1400,mm on the left to the 2000mm on the top.  If your timbers aren't long enough use two screwed or bolted together with as much overlap as you can.

If its high I would simply triangulate the corner.   

Is it actually and L girder, two timbers making an L shape when seen end on? (Or a T) The beauty of L girders, you can use all sorts of stuff for the frames at any old angles to support the track bed. and string the scenery between.   Yours looks like conventional UK flat top to me.     Lots of layouts lose credibility as the track is at the lowest level, Generally they look much better if there is scenery below the track, streams, roads under the tracks etc...

 

Hi,

 

I was aiming for 4ft at baseboard level and I am planning on using the standard L girder design. The setting is along a valley floor with very little gradient at the prototype location but I take your point.

 

There is scope for somewhat lower lying land in both the areas towards the front that require some spanning. The river runs parallel to the tracks but in the viewer's space; so there might be scope for a modest fall towards the front with a stream coming towards the viewer, in fact I rather like the concept.

 

In reality with my mostly 2-3ft of layout width or 50-75 yards at real life scale, that doesn't leave much room for topography back to front.

 

[BWsTrains]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

Have you got a copy of

 

Linn Hanson Westcott's book

 

Model Railroad Benchwork, How to Build

 

Your answers are all there.

 

With the excellent input from two members' efforts explained in great detail here and various on line resources, my carpenter and I think we understand how best to use the L girder system in terms of timbers and design.

 

Sadly I don't have the book you mention, but then as I live just down the road 43km from you perhaps you'd consider making me a loan if you could spare yours for a week or so???

 

Colin

Edited November 7, 2021 by BWsTrains

[BR60103]

Colin:

One of the features of L-girder is that the supporting beams can be shifted sideways to avoid things like point motors.

That said, I have a spot where the Girder is 2" below the roadbed where I need a point motor.

Overhang should not be a problem if you run the beams out from the back and the bit on the left side contributes to keeping the layout up.

I did mine with just the L-girder, a beam, and the Homasote.

 

Caution: Make the L-girder by clamping the 2 boards together, pilot-drilling every foot for screws and screwing. Then remove the screws, glue along the mating edge, restore the screws and leave for 2 days. When the glue is set/cured, remove the screws.  I missed once and ruined an expensive drill bit finding the screw.

 

Pick boards that will take your drill chuck when your go up from below.

 

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, BR60103 said:

Colin:

One of the features of L-girder is that the supporting beams can be shifted sideways to avoid things like point motors.

That said, I have a spot where the Girder is 2" below the roadbed where I need a point motor.

Overhang should not be a problem if you run the beams out from the back and the bit on the left side contributes to keeping the layout up.

I did mine with just the L-girder, a beam, and the Homasote.

 

Caution: Make the L-girder by clamping the 2 boards together, pilot-drilling every foot for screws and screwing. Then remove the screws, glue along the mating edge, restore the screws and leave for 2 days. When the glue is set/cured, remove the screws.  I missed once and ruined an expensive drill bit finding the screw.

 

Pick boards that will take your drill chuck when your go up from below.

 

Yes, a key part of successful use of L Girders is to get rid of the screws, because they serve no useful purpose once once they have been properly assembled including gluing. Only a disadvantage,

[AndyB]

I'm wondering how you'll reach to the top left-hand corner?  You mention tge baseboard is hard up against a wall. So I'm guessing you'd have to lean over from the grey area? 

 

For what jts worth I made my L girders from skirting board which obviouy comes in decent lengths and is light. 

Cheers. Andy.

[BWsTrains]

16 minutes ago, AndyB said:

I'm wondering how you'll reach to the top left-hand corner?  You mention tge baseboard is hard up against a wall. So I'm guessing you'd have to lean over from the grey area? 

 

For what jts worth I made my L girders from skirting board which obviouy comes in decent lengths and is light. 

Cheers. Andy.

 

Agreed, I think I'll have an arc in the corner rather than sharp angle. From some tests I've done I should be able to reach within 1ft of the corner and there will be no track anywhere near there, just some buildings are intrended.

 

A duck-under, pop-up space there momentarily crossed my mind but that would eat up too much space!!!!!

 

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

I'm planning an "L" shaped layout measuring 4.1m (~14ft) by 1.45m (~5ft) which backs onto walls along the entire outside of the "L" as shown here.

 

 

As I work in metric units, I've set this grid to 1ft square to help those who think / work in Feet.

Layout has no gradients.

 

The colours define various areas:

Grey: the open access space in front of the layout (omitted here is further shading on the free access at the extreme right of the plan)

Pale Blue: the baseboard area which I require (some overlaid with a footprint for the base structure and storage yard

Green boxes: My first estimate of the L-Girder footprint, assuming my carpenter can get 2m or 2.1m lengths of the required timbers. Set at 400mm width (15.7in). Will need to extend further to right but a minor detail.

Red "X"s on layout area: mark the likely locations of access required for point motors (note: not including those "X"s marking the edge coordinates!)

 

My questions relate to the adequacy of the initial design and how I should address the current substantial overhang areas at the top and bend of the "L".

Initial thoughts include having a wider L Girder section ~600mm under the Right storage area and an angled girder of some description spanning the turn of the "L".

 

All constructive feedback will be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that's pretty well OK Colin. Just a couple of suggestions:

 

- yes, the right hand side leaves too much overhanging the nearer L-girder. I'd definitely try to have a wider section of structure there (and by the way you won't be able to reach the storage sidings very easily - anything over about 750mm to reach across, especially at 4ft high, is getting too much).

 

- on the left you don't need an angled piece. Just have longer joists coming out at 90 degrees to each other.

 

- again the left corner is too far to reach. Don't change the L-girders but try to have a false backscene with just open framing behind it.

 

As well as the Linn Westcott book try to find a copy of Basic Model Railroad Benchwork by Jeff Wilson (Kalmbach). It's got a good section on L-girders and heaps more besides.

 

Good luck but above all have fun!

[BWsTrains]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I think that's pretty well OK Colin. Just a couple of suggestions:

 

- yes, the right hand side leaves too much overhanging the nearer L-girder. I'd definitely try to have a wider section of structure there (and by the way you won't be able to reach the storage sidings very easily - anything over about 750mm to reach across, especially at 4ft high, is getting too much).

 

Thx for your various comments, all most helpful.

 

Regarding height I've found a chest of drawers of just the right height / width and at ~1200mm I see what you mean. Testing at 1100mm over the opened top drawers is fine for me, I can cover the full area of the storage from front / side so that's adopted!

I haven't said in the intro but I have plans to access the back end of the storage yard via the area shown as a blue rectangle at right, this is simply a set of extended tracks beyond the traverser intended for running round of the odd loco. It could easily be made removable giving me access all along the side edge. My current layout backs up to almost the same distance from the right edge (in fact a stair handrail so relatively open). Hence I've tested access along the little side alleyway!

 

SWMBO always said "you've long arms / body, short legs (when trying to find clothes) but at least its not "short arms deep pockets!""

This good reach may be of advantage now.