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A bit of Triang 3mt help needed.


cypherman
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Hi all,

Yes I am restoring yet another Triang 3mt 2-6-2 tank. But I am stuck on one piece. This is the valve gear cross bar bracket that holds top part of the valve gear in place. The one I had has broken. Not surprising considering it's age. I have tried all the usual places to get a replacement with no luck. I am currently in the middle of trying to scratch build one. i was wondering should this fail if any one might know some of the not so usual where I might get one.

 

Thanks

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Part no S.5056 from the service sheets I have (downloaded). They do turn up on eBay from time to time (usually pricey!).

It's made from a delicate and fragile glue resistant plastic and needs to insulated because Tri-ang motion is live to the wheels. However if one is lucky the bracket is broken on the side that is live to chassis and it can be repaired bodged up with wire. (IIRC they only go in one way!). I haven't tried, but it might be possible to make a replacement from printed circuit board.

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As the bracket is flat and symmetrical, provided you have at least half of it, you could use that as the template to make a new one out of thicker plasticard, which I think you said you were already doing. It might take a bit of time, but just think of the satisfaction you'll get out of putting the loco back into running order by using something that you made.

 

I did have one break decades ago, it was teh loop at one end. I can't remember if it was from my Princess or the 3MT. I recall repairing it by gluing the metal valve gear part to the bracket and sticking the broken bit of the loop to the metal using Plastic Padding. I haven't got the two possible locos with me, but as far as I know the repair is still holding. 

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Considering this problem, I came up with the idea of cutting the long support of the gear on the pickup side just aft of the valvegear and soldering the bits to a small piece of PCB with an insulating slot between the two pieces.* Then a new motion bracket can be made from metal, which is how it should have been done in the first place.

 

* Probably better to solder first and cut afterwards! Of course the result is non original and it would depend how important this is. Conversely it's not going to break again.

The return crank pointing the  wrong way can be resolved  at the same time - press the crank pin out file off the two locating lugs and press it back in at the correct angle.

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38 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

What you need? 

 

DSC_0337.JPG.81df92d9f2b20a7f92851bcba9cc7f3e.JPG

Hi Redgate, Sorry no. That's the one for the Princess. It does fit in the slot but holds the rear of the valve gear too high at the back and causes it to jam when running. Strangely enough only when going backwards. But thanks for looking.

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24 minutes ago, GoingUnderground said:

As the bracket is flat and symmetrical, provided you have at least half of it, you could use that as the template to make a new one out of thicker plasticard, which I think you said you were already doing. It might take a bit of time, but just think of the satisfaction you'll get out of putting the loco back into running order by using something that you made.

 

I did have one break decades ago, it was teh loop at one end. I can't remember if it was from my Princess or the 3MT. I recall repairing it by gluing the metal valve gear part to the bracket and sticking the broken bit of the loop to the metal using Plastic Padding. I haven't got the two possible locos with me, but as far as I know the repair is still holding. 

Hi, Unfortunately it was not the end that broke. One of the arms snapped off by the chassis and it fell off somewhere. So I cannot find it. I have already laminated 2 pieces of plasticard together for the correct width and left to set overnight and made a card template. Will have a go making one today.

Edited by cypherman
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8 minutes ago, cypherman said:

Hi Redgate, Sorry no. That's the one for the Princess. It does fit in the slot but holds the rear of the valve gear too high at the back and causes it to jam when running. Strangely enough only when going backwards. But thanks for looking.

 

Odd as the part number is the same on both service sheets. Let me take a screwdriver to my 3mt to confirm

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Hmmm, it is different on the 3mt, you can't have this one lol

 

 

Looks like you need to get the right age part, the later Princess ones should fit, the one I have in stock is for an earlier version.... 

DSC_0339.JPG.a16444b01d589964f762bafd9e77cd4f.JPG

You need an S5056/2

Edited by RedgateModels
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thanks for looking. But unfortunately it is the one in your picture. I made a replacement. But it failed and the end snapped off. I will just have to wait until one comes available on Ebay. Many thanks for looking. There is no rush as this will be my 6th or 7th one I have.

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As has been mentioned.

 

There are two types of motion bracket for the R.59 3MT.

(And the Transcontinental 2-6-2 tank locomotives.)

 

The original version. S.5056. This was the same part as on the early R.53 Princess, and R.54 TC locos.

 

FEE8D131-3CA0-4706-B29A-7538022FC77F.jpeg.3c913b1d810453f3d352c9bd221aba06.jpeg


From 1st January, 1961, the chassis and cylinder block were modified to take the Seuthe type smoke unit. The motion bracket remained the same.

 

7DE99A90-1587-42E4-850C-EC3AD1F281F5.jpeg.4022081e709499790818d2d3d5a7c7be.jpeg

 

From September, 1962, the chassis block was again modified, this time the slots for the axles were replaced by holes, like most other Tri-ang chassis blocks.

 

The S.5056 Motion brackets made after around 1964 don’t have a fixing screw hole, as the bracket is meant to be held down by the Synchrosmoke Unit in the 4-6-2 locomotives.

 

840CA73B-1995-4EFB-AE4E-D1469501C348.jpeg.0898d3c457699a8f13f5b39c0ced7d1f.jpeg

 

The later bracket is S.8013. This is the 1969 on version, with the Synchrosmoke unit. The chassis block is a totally different style, without the brake shoe detail present on the older chassis blocks.
 

2F5DBD26-B75A-4464-8D12-0540A8297E73.jpeg.865cbc3f2c5adf7dc2023b25740b4beb.jpeg

Edited by Ruffnut Thorston
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Interestingly the Valve gear is shown correctly in the post 1961 (unlike on the model), but is neither correct to reality nor the model in the first diagram. I suppose it was considered obvious how it should fit on the crank pin (which isn't shown). I suppose the drawings were mainly intended for dealers.

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Hi all,

Just lost out on a donor 3mt. went for £15.00 on Ebay but I was stuck at work. The body was completely knackered but the chassis was in good condition. So the search goes on.

Edited by cypherman
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I have managed to make replacement motion brackets from Plasticard. But I also make sure that when spares turn up I try and keep one or two of each type by. One of the weaknesses of Triang chassis is the liberal use of 3-in-1 or similar oils back in the day tends to result in the disintegration of plastic parts. In a similar fashion I have had the roof pieces of the R357 A1A break in half where the worm gear has thrown up a neat line of oil on the underside causing a fatal weakness.

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Hi Andyman,

I did make one out of laminated plasticard. But it turned out to be far to fragile and snapped. Not to worry though I now have 3 replacements coming. Well ok 2 full brackets and 2 halves that I hope to make into 1. Just waiting for it all to arrive. So at the moment I am amusing myself by restoring a 1973 Corgi German Tiger tank. Just waiting for the new tracks and transfers to arrive.

It seems I am always waiting for something to arrive.... :)

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3 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

3-in-1 is rather deadly stuff. I have to admit to using it in my youth. Young Grifone thought a large can at 1/3d from Woolworths beat 7d for a tiny glass phial from a Meccano dealer.

3 in 1 does have an even bigger competitor today - it's called WD-40 which is virtually the same stuff and just as disastrous to plastics.

Where they get you, is that on initial application, they appear to work perfectly on model railways, so much so, you put it on other items. However, over weeks/months the plastic becomes harder & starts disintegrating and there is nothing you can do, but replace damaged parts.

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Hi all,

Well the 2 halves of the bracket are now one and work a treat. Sanded them down a bit so I could put a backing of plasticard on for support. I am afraid that I have again slipped in to my fatal buying bits for spares and going on to restoring what I have bought. So now I have 2 complete 3mt's, One waiting for one side of its Walschearts valve gear to arrive and 2 more chassis in the process of being restored. Now this does not include the 4 others I already have. My wife has now said it might be the time to sell some of them.  I shuddered in trepidation that she may mean it..... :( ...LOL

As for oil. I use a full synthetic 5/30 motor oil. Works a treat when applied in small amounts.

Edited by cypherman
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Hi all,

Something I have found out about this engine is that it has had at least 4 different chassis. I do not know if the original engine came with a split framed metal chassis. That would make it 5 if it did. Can any one tell me if there was a split framed metal chassis

Edited by cypherman
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1 hour ago, cypherman said:

Hi all,

Something I have found out about this engine is that it has had at least 4 different chassis. I do not know if the original engine came with a split framed metal chassis. That would make it 5 if it did. Can nay one tell me if there was a split framed metal chassis

 

As far as I can tell, it never had a split chassis. I have a 1956 version which was the first year it was available and that has a cast chassis.

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I think that I know what you mean by a “Split Chassis”.

 

Not the pick up arrangement, but what I call a “plate frame chassis”.

 

That is two flat metal plates, with cast metal weight blocks each end. The X.04 type motor being mounted on what is usually, except for the Diesel Shunter, the rear block.

 

Earlier plate frame chassis have screws holding the chassis together.

 

Later ones have rivets.

 

I believe that the last plate frame chassis was that used for the “Nellie” type locos.

 

R.59 chassis. (From memory…) All cast metal, with a flat platform at the back under the cab, with two body locating lugs.

 

Original. Slots for axles. Brake shoe details. Princess type over frame cylinders.

 

From January 1961. New cylinder block, with a hole to clear the socket for the Seuthe type smoke unit. 

 

From C1962, the axles were through holes, like most other Tri-ang steam locos.

 

From C1969, the re introduced R.59S had the small Synchrosmoke unit, with a special extension. A new type of motion bracket was used. No brake shoe detail.

A sub variant is the red painted chassis block, with red centred wheels, used for the late German Style version of the T.C. Series Continental Tank Loco, with two domes.

 

The types of wheels and the rods and valve gear assemblies also changed over time. 
The very last had plated tyres to the wheels.


 

 

Edited by Ruffnut Thorston
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1 hour ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

I think that I know what you mean by a “Split Chassis”.

 

Not the pick up arrangement, but what I call a “plate frame chassis”.

 

That is two flat metal plates, with cast metal weight blocks each end. The X.04 type motor being mounted on what is usually, except for the Diesel Shunter, the rear block.

 

Earlier plate frame chassis have screws holding the chassis together.

 

Later ones have rivets.

 

I believe that the last plate frame chassis was that used for the “Nellie” type locos.

 

R.59 chassis. (From memory…) All cast metal, with a flat platform at the back under the cab, with two body locating lugs.

 

Original. Slots for axles. Brake shoe details. Princess type over frame cylinders.

 

From January 1961. New cylinder block, with a hole to clear the socket for the Seuthe type smoke unit. 

 

From C1962, the axles were through holes, like most other Tri-ang steam locos.

 

From C1969, the re introduced R.59S had the small Synchrosmoke unit, with a special extension. A new type of motion bracket was used. No brake shoe detail.

A sub variant is the red painted chassis block, with red centred wheels, used for the late German Style version of the T.C. Series Continental Tank Loco, with two domes.

 

The types of wheels and the rods and valve gear assemblies also changed over time. 
The very last had plated tyres to the wheels.


 

 

Hi Ruffnut,

That just about sums up the chassis for this engine. I do have 2 Princess plate and frame chassis in my collection and one 0-6-0 saddle tank

Edited by cypherman
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