Weights for 4mm kit built wagons

[Metr0Land]

I have some very light kitbuilt wagons I've bought over the years to which I've added small metal wights but decided they need more now my layout is seriously up and running.

 

The trouble is the original supply came from C**percr*ft and I'm struggling to find anything similar.  The plates in the past were something like 1" x 2" and I'd like a load more.

 

Do people have anything ready-cut they use?

 

TIA

[Les Bird]

I use car wheel balance weights. They can be found on ebay (search wheel balance weights) and come in a pack of two different sizes. They are flat and have self adhesive backing so are easily applied either inside the wagon or underneath the floor if there is room

[Paul Cram]

Sheet lead cut to size

[Michael Hodgson]

I'm still using small bits of lead that came from a church several decades ago - no, from the organ not from the roof!

 

The building had been sold to another religion (the Sikhs I think) and although most of the organ's plumbing had already been crudely removed for scrap, there were small pieces still stapled to the framework which I managed to recover before the building was handed over.

Lead is useful because if can be hammered into any shape you want to get it to fit.

[jamieb]

I use old copper coins,1p and 2p pieces.Much cheaper than lead weights!

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Paul Cram said:

Sheet lead cut to size

Likewise; I do use a couple of self-tappers, as well as Araldite, to secure them. The Law of Sod means that no sooner has the roof been fitted to any covered van, then the weight will come off...Any builder's merchant normally had flashing for sale, which can be cut to fit with a Stanley knife.

[Michael Hodgson]

A caveat with lead - don't flood lead shot with polystyrene cement in a plastic vehicle to secure it  - the lead gradually sinks into the plastic, warping the body.  Been there, done that

[brossard]

3 hours ago, Les Bird said:

I use car wheel balance weights. They can be found on ebay (search wheel balance weights) and come in a pack of two different sizes. They are flat and have self adhesive backing so are easily applied either inside the wagon or underneath the floor if there is room

 

A word of caution, I bought a pack of tyre weights from Amazon.  I found these to be steel so a bu**er to cut.  Anything with reasonable density can be used incl solder.

 

BTW, rule of thumb is 50g for 4 wheeled wagons.  10g additional for each axle.

 

John

[cctransuk]

3 hours ago, Metr0Land said:

I have some very light kitbuilt wagons I've bought over the years to which I've added small metal wights but decided they need more now my layout is seriously up and running.

 

The trouble is the original supply came from C**percr*ft and I'm struggling to find anything similar.  The plates in the past were something like 1" x 2" and I'd like a load more.

 

Do people have anything ready-cut they use?

 

TIA

 

In the past, I have used 1/2" x 1/8" (12mm. x 3mm.) bright mild steel bar. It is easily cut to length with a hacksaw; it fits between the wheels; if cut to fit between the headstock it acts as a spine, ensuring that the wagon does not develop a 'banana' curve; and can be used to mount the couplings.

 

Any steel stockist or fabrication company should be able to provide it.

 

CJI.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by cctransuk

[Compound2632]

I bit the bullet* and bought a lifetime's supply of lead sheet in a massive roll that would cause serious damage if it fell off the modelling table onto my feet. I think I had it from Eileen's Emporium. It's not so expensive if you amortise the first cost across several hundred wagons! Although it's 2 mm thick, it can be cut with a heavy-duty craft knife - I use a Stanley knife. I then flatten each piece by putting it between my steel bending bars and tightening up with a G clamp - lead sandwich. Speaking of which, I wash my hands thoroughly afterwards!

 

I aim to weight my 00 wagons to around 50 g / 2 oz (or 25 g / 1 oz per axle). This needs a surprising amount of lead - typically two pieces 40 mm x 25 mm x 2 mm for a plastic wagon. That's fine for a loaded wagon but for one modelled empty, one has to remove any representation of framing moulded onto the underside of the floor. I use UHU to glue the lead in place and take care that any load that needs PVA - such as coal or ballast - is prepared away from the lead.

 

*as in:

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Compound2632

[The Johnster]

‘Liquid lead’, basically lead shot and not cheap (that said I bought mine 4 years ago and still got plenty left), adaptable and can be poured into the underfloor ‘compartments’ of Parkside and the like.  Apparently, it reacts with PVA and expands, causing warping and even splitting tanks and boilers open, so I set it in UHU, but earlier models sealed in with dilute PVA have not given any trouble, yet.

 

Plastic kit Lowmacs and the like are a particular problem if you want to run them unloaded, and I would suggest cast whitemetal buffers and metal wheels to help as much as possible, and perhaps a thin lead sheet representing a folded tarp on the deck, even some chain; every little helps…

[Steamport Southport]

£6.50 for half a kilo seems reasonable.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/308861/dcc_concepts_dct_lld_liquid_lead_500g/stockdetail

 

You only need to use it for places that you can't fit normal lead/steel into. For that you can get a big roll from Eileens Emporium.

 

 

 

Jason

[Gilbert]

Sheet lead has the advantage that it can be cut to size, painted and used as a false bottom in open wagons without losing too much of the empty wagon...

[Il Grifone]

Where possible I use standard nuts, large diameter washers* and bolts, which can also be used to fix the roof in place - don't make the body airtight in any case. (These are available cheaply in bulk (fill a bag) from a High Street Store.) Otherwise lead sheet - I bought a piece on eBay some years ago and still have a lot left. Having had bad experiences with glue (see earlier post), I fix this with a cage made from plastic sheet. I find there is sufficient space under the floor of a wagon to weight it to about 30 gram, which I find adequate. Provided metal wheels are used and everything is square (and better sprung or equalised), I don't find any need to follow the NMRA specification of I oz. + 1/2oz. per inch (about 75g for a four wheel wagon). R-T-R cars come with a strip of steel under the floor, which seems quite enough. If not, there is something wrong either with the vehicle or the track.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/66894.aspx

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=lead+sheet&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15

 

Sorry about mixing systems, but they seem to believe in using obsolete measures across the pond. (Please tell me Boris was joking with the daft (even for him) suggestion to reintroduce them in the UK.)

[Dick Turpin]

Because I work in engineering, I have in the past resorted to old carbide tool inserts which would otherwise have gone into the bin. The small ones are still quite heavy for their size (although not as heavy as lead), and a couple of small ones usually do the trick. I usually glue them in, but because most have a central hole, it's also possible to use screws.

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Il Grifone said:

(Please tell me Boris was joking with the daft (even for him) suggestion to reintroduce them in the UK.)

 

Bimetricism is one of the joys of our hobby - staving off alzheimer's by requiring continuous mental agility. 

[brossard]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Bimetricism is one of the joys of our hobby - staving off alzheimer's by requiring continuous mental agility. 

 

Yes, bimetricism is a useful thing.  mm's are easier to use, and more precise, for measuring small dimensions, as with kits, while my brain is comfortable with inches, and even feet for larger dimensions, such as baseboards.

 

John

[great central]

I get a pick and mix bag full of largish steel washers from Wilko. They used to be £1.99, a bit more now I think, for the small bag, which gives loads of washers.

[57xx]

I use lead sheet as well, a roll I've had for about the last 30 years! UHU is used for sticking it in/under wagons.

 

If you are mixing it up with RTR wagons, then 30g is sufficient, this seems to be the weight of a lot of RTR so a good match. IIRC the 50g figure comes from NMRA specs and it's not necessary to struggle to fit that much.

[jcm@gwr]

I also use lead from a roll, plus any off-cuts I can scrounge from roofing jobs!

This is applicable in any scale (I work in both 4mm and 7mm), but I think what

is most important, is not the exact weight, but consistency amongst all your

rolling stock. So long as they are all about the same, it should work just fine. 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, 57xx said:

If you are mixing it up with RTR wagons, then 30g is sufficient, this seems to be the weight of a lot of RTR so a good match. IIRC the 50g figure comes from NMRA specs and it's not necessary to struggle to fit that much.

 

1 hour ago, jcm@gwr said:

I also use lead from a roll, plus any off-cuts I can scrounge from roofing jobs!

This is applicable in any scale (I work in both 4mm and 7mm), but I think what

is most important, is not the exact weight, but consistency amongst all your

rolling stock. So long as they are all about the same, it should work just fine. 

 

Yes, indeed, consistency. I find that whitemetal wagons tend to come out around the 40 g - 50 g mark, which is one reason for weighting plastic wagons to that amount. The 25 g per axle figure, as I understand, is really the recommendation for compensated or spring vehicles; I'm working in 00 so that doesn't apply to most of my stock.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Compound2632

[Steamport Southport]

45 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

Yes, indeed, consistency. I find that whitemetal wagons tend to come out around the 40 g - 50 g mark, which is one reason for weighting plastic wagons to that amount. The 25 g per axle figure, as I understand, is really the recommendation for compensated or spring vehicles; I'm working in 00 so that doesn't apply to most of my stock.

 

Yes. I've got a few from sources such as ABS, Geen, 51L, etc.  and they all work out about 40 - 50g. 2 ounces in proper money.

 

I was told by someone who build kits to a very good standard is you can balance them on a old style scales against a Mars Bar and if it's about level then it's alright. So yes, it's more about consistency rather than exact weight. Pick up a Mars Bar or similar, they aren't exactly heavy.

 

 

I think where some people go wrong is it's the total weight. Not the weight to be added. So don't be adding 50g to your models!

 

 

Jason

[Il Grifone]

11 hours ago, great central said:

I get a pick and mix bag full of largish steel washers from Wilko. They used to be £1.99, a bit more now I think, for the small bag, which gives loads of washers.

 

I wanted to avoid advertising but that is the retailer I intended. I got about 100 large washers into a bag....

 

Our local DIY shops in Sardinia do this too, but by weight, but you still get a lot of metal for your money. Certainly a lot cheaper than those little plastic boxes. A couple of euro for about 10 nuts and bolts (depending on size) - admittedly brass, but steel is not a lot cheaper. And none of that imperial rubbish!

Edited November 8, 2021 by Il Grifone

[ColinK]

I found a jar of old nuts and bolts in a previous house and used them until I ran out.

 

I now use ‘liquid lead’ which is tiny lead balls.  As mentioned earlier do not secure them with PVA as it reacts and expands.  I built a small 7mm narrow gauge diesel with the bonnet sides double skinned with lead hidden between the plasticard inner and outer skins. 5 years later the loco disintegrated as the lead/pva expanded and blew the loco apart.

[Il Grifone]

I didn't have that trouble luckily, but did have problems with reaction between the glue and the plastic causing severe warping. As I said, I now avoid the use of any glue to secure the lead and rely on plastic strip to hold it in place. The same goes for steel weights, though I do use nuts and bolts in this case. (Steel bolts with steel weights - no mixed metals.)