Why 32 and not 33mm?

[pauliebanger]

2 hours ago, sncf231e said:

Here it is (free to read or download):

http://sncf231e.nl/gauge-and-scale/

Regards

Fred

Fred,

 

Thank you for creating this interesting document and for posting the link here.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[goldfish]

2 hours ago, Simond said:

I did not know that the Hornby key included track gauges, very innovative!

 

The keys varied over time, but were surprisingly accurate.

 

 

Henry Greenly famously wrote - “The best reference for the scale equivalent of a model railway is not the gauge but the size of the driver’s hat”’. (Model Railway News, July 1937, p192)

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by goldfish

[Andy Kirkham]

3 hours ago, Simond said:

I distinctly recall reading that he felt that locos looked better on narrower-than-scale track, and of course, this is precisely what he did with the RHDR - approximately 1/3 scale stock on 15" gauge, 1/4 scale track.

Simon

 

I read a different account of this. In One Man's Railway - the history of the RHDR By John Snell - it was stated that the early Basset Lowke 15in gauge locos were scale models but were too delicate for the rough work on the Ravenglass & Eskdale, and the need for a more robust loco led Greenly to build River Esk at one third scale. The success of River Esk led Zborowsky to adopt the same principle when he commissioned Green Goddess from Paxmans.

[Nearholmer]

Yes, I think Greenly’s rather strange views of model locomotive aesthetics, and the practicalities of the R&ER and RH&DR are two separate things.
 

If you look at a scale model 15” gauge SG loco, even a model of quite a big loco, you can instantly see that it isn’t up to sustained heavy work over great distances - its just too delicate.

 

15” arrived on these long-distances miniatures largely by accident, because WJBL saw an opportunity to extend the reach of his ‘exhibition and park’ railway business by getting involved in the R&ER, initially equipping it with what was to hand (semi-scale 15” gauge locos plus leftovers from Heywood’s work), and having arrived, 15” stuck, when 24” would probably have been more suitable for scale purposes.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Nearholmer

[BR60103]

The Americans had 3 variations of O gauge (for scale modelling; toys had more).

Started with 1/4" scale, 1 1/4" gauge. which is scale 5' gauge.

Same scale, 1 3/16" gauge which is scale 4' 9".  Called Q gauge. I don't think I've ever seen it.

17/64" scale, 1 1/4" gauge. works out to 56.47" gauge.  One of my neighbours has a car or two built to this scale. (6.75 mm scale.)

 

 

[Nearholmer]

What sort of dates were those not-quarter-inch variants around? I’m interested to understand whether they were early attempt at new scales which failed, or recent “hi-fi modeller” ideas.

[goldfish]

On 09/11/2021 at 15:34, Nearholmer said:

PS: Don’t ask why Maerklin used 35mm, 48mm etc, because nobody is really certain.

 

It is possible that Maerklin did not come up with 54mm, Gauge 2, although i cannot find the reference at the moment.

 

Just before publishing the 1891 catalogue Maeklin took over the firm of Ludwig Lutz, another toy maker. It seems that in order to merge the two companies ranges the Maerklin products were labeled as Gauge 1 (48mm) and the Lutz products as Gauge 2 (54mm).

 

I found the reference on a German site, but cannot find it again. Perhaps Fred can can throw some light on this.

[sncf231e]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

What sort of dates were those not-quarter-inch variants around? I’m interested to understand whether they were early attempt at new scales which failed, or recent “hi-fi modeller” ideas.

This is what I found and wrote in my book on Q:

Up into the 1960's the American model railroad magazines and literature sometimes referred to "Q scale". John Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" (1963 version) mentioned Q scale as using 1.177" (30 mm) track gauge for 1:48 scale, so it was the accurate gauge for standard gauge in this typical USA scale of 1:48. Later the name Proto48 or P48 was given to this gauge/scale combination.

 

17/64" scale seems to me the (correct) scale of 1:45 used in Europe (but not in France) with a gauge of 1:32. I myself do not know of USA prototype made to this gauge/scale.

 

Regards

Fred

[sncf231e]

1 hour ago, goldfish said:

 

I found the reference on a German site, but cannot find it again. Perhaps Fred can can throw some light on this.

It is known that Märklin took over Lutz and that Lutz was already further than Märklin in the design of the various toy train systems and rails. One book I read mentions that Lutz used a gauge a few mm larger than 1 (between gauge 1 and 2). Another mentions that Märklin just used the Lutz systems. When Märklin introduced the 48/45 mm gauge in 1991 it was not called gauge 1 (Spur 1); a few years later the different gauges got their names, but initiated by Märklin and followed by "the industry".

 

Regards

Fred 

[BR60103]

19 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

What sort of dates were those not-quarter-inch variants around? I’m interested to understand whether they were early attempt at new scales which failed, or recent “hi-fi modeller” ideas.

O17 was in the NMRA data sheets dated 1962.  I don't see Q, but read of it.

[kevinlms]

On 11/11/2021 at 01:04, Miss Prism said:

The notion of changing proportions of certain items was fashionable for a while and I believe adopted by the celebrated J S Beeson on some of his earlier locos, but I get the impression he thought better of the idea in later years. 

 

As followed by Peco with their 'finescale longer look track'!