Buyer beware - warranty issues

[Gilbert]

Just a warning really.

I bought a new (wrong logo body position ) DRS 20 with sound fitted by a retailer I know to have a strong internet and exhibition presence. I obviously assumed there would be a manufacturer warranty on a new RTR item.

After an approach from me Bachmann have just now kindly agreed to replace the shell in line with the replacement programme but they have pointed out that the retailer is "not a recognised Bachmann retailer and as such there is no warranty on products purchased from them."  I assume the retailer has no physical shop.

Although I've been dealt with happily by Bachmann on this occasion I am posting an advisory message referring to the issue  as its quite a big deal if something does go wrong with a new loco and you find out Bachmann may not address it - although obviously the retailer may agree to do so unilaterally. Unfortunately I emailed the retailer 6 days ago and had no reply.

 

[Robert Stokes]

I believe that legally it is the retailer's responsibility to put right any faults with a new item bought from them. The contract is between the buyer and the shop (or online retailer). The manufacturer may be willing to take it on but they don't have to deal directly with the buyer.

[andyman7]

17 minutes ago, Robert Stokes said:

I believe that legally it is the retailer's responsibility to put right any faults with a new item bought from them. The contract is between the buyer and the shop (or online retailer). The manufacturer may be willing to take it on but they don't have to deal directly with the buyer.

That's true but doesn't extend as far as getting a replacement body sorted, you'd be entitled to your money back. Using a Bachmann authorised dealer for a brand new item means you benefit from the Warranty over and above your statutory rights. 

[TRAILRAGE]

Your contract is indeed with the place of Purchase but the Warranty itself lies with the Manufacturer or in some cases the UK Distributer. The Warranty problem arises when you buy from a product from an unauthorised Dealer who has no contract with the Manufacturer. The Manufacturer has no obligation to cover the Warranty. A good example is that I work in the Cycling Industry where we used to Deal with Scott Bikes.  As soon as we parted ways they no longer Honoured any Warranties on any of the bikes we still had in stock.  We had to refer the Customer to an authorised dealer so any Warranty Claim could be processed.  Now this is where it gets complicated as the dealer the customer has ben referred to has no obligation to deal with the issue either as the Customer has no contract with them! Its down to their discretion. Now in the Cycle industry most places are willing to help the Customer if they deal with the Manufacture as its in their best interest to possibly secure another prospective Customer to their Store. We have certainly processed claims for Bikes/Parts that were not purchased with us.   Whether this sort of cooperation would happen in the Modelling industry I have no idea but I'd like to think it would.

 

Cheers Trailrage

[ruggedpeak]

At the risk of going down the rabbit hole, body replacement is not a warranty issue, its a discretionary action by Bachmann. Need to dig out their warranty T&C's but fairly confident it will not extend to wonky livery detail. As here no reference to warranty, the last thing any manufacturer will want to set a precedent for is slight livery issues being warranty items.

 

 

Having used Bachmann them to repair something that had sold out, as per their website I had to provide a copy of the receipt:

 

Claims for warranty work must be made in accordance with the terms of that warranty supported by a bona-fide receipt from the retailer to confirm the date of purchase.

 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/page/service-request

 

If they are not a recognised retailer then I would argue that you have been sold a secondhand (or stolen!!) item if Bachmann are saying they did not supply it, and if that was not made clear when you bought it maybe go for a full refund on the basis it was not as described. Hope you paid by credit card.

[Gilbert]

1 hour ago, Robert Stokes said:

I believe that legally it is the retailer's responsibility to put right any faults with a new item bought from them. The contract is between the buyer and the shop (or online retailer). The manufacturer may be willing to take it on but they don't have to deal directly with the buyer.

The instruction on the website for the body was to contact Bachmann directly with proof of purchase. Hence my posting. I do assume retailers will stand behind their sales but I also assume they won't necessarily be receiving support from Bachmann.

Chris

Edited November 10, 2021 by Gilbert

[Gilbert]

I do need to emphasise that Bachmann have undertaken to replace the body but pointed out the retailer is not a recognised Bachmann dealer.

Chris

[Kris]

This has come up before, where Bachmann have refused warranty work as the locos were purchased from outside of their dealer network. 

In the previous cases the problems arose from locos purchased from Hattons I believe. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Kris
extra info added.

[atom3624]

It's nice that Bachmann waived this 'right to refuse'.

 

I purchased a Dapol Western perhaps 18 months ago, and the PCB failed when on light trials.

The Dapol agents flat refused a replacement PCB as I had purchased from a not-directly-registered-with-them major Ebay seller.

 

The seller had no problems refunding me, very nice, but said they would simply 'break for parts' - which is a sad loss which could have been avoided had the agents agreed to repair. Pity.

 

Not posted as a rant, just as an example of what can happen.

 

Al.

[AY Mod]

Warranties are there to support the retailers as well as the customer so you can see why a manufacturer may choose not to support someone selling outside that network. The need to contact Bachmann may have been negated if the retailer had replied to the original request.

 

Statutory protection would then come into play and the retailer would have to accept the risk from not having manufacturer support.

[ndg910]

I recently had an issue with an EFE Rail Class 02 which needed a warranty repair and I spoke to the retailer as my first point of call and they said Bachmann will only collect warranty items from them when a minimum wholesale value (not on sale price value) has been reached. The retailer told it might take a few months to reach Bachmann’s collection threshold as they got very few warranty repairs. The retailer is small/medium sized but has an actual shop and they recommended emailing Bachmann and including the original invoice as proof of purchase and also offered to speak with Bachmann to ensure my warranty issue went through without a problem. Fortunately I purchased through the retailers website so still had the email receipt. Despite Bachmann asking for purchasers to go through the retailer they were very happy to deal directly and the loco was returned inside 3weeks. I cant fault either the retailer or Bachmann.

Edited November 10, 2021 by ndg910

[rob D2]

To be honest unless you name the retailer so we can avoid buying from their Bachmann selection this is not much use .

 

I got caught out buying a " new " Bachmann off eBay because of course it may be new but it's second hand as far as Bachmann are concerned . Different but parallel issue .

 

It amazes me at some if the shows I've been to how many Del Boy traders pop up that I've never heard of online or with a physical shop - also had a bad experience there so I steer clear .

 

[Colin_McLeod]

28 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

To be honest unless you name the retailer so we can avoid buying from their Bachmann selection this is not much use .

 

Agree.

 

 

For some reason I don't understand there appears to be a reluctance to name a shop that has caused problems.  If one is sure of one's facts what is the point of telling us about a problem shop but keeping their identity secret?

 

 

To clarify; this post refers to lots of posts highlighting problems and not just the OP of this thread.

[Gilbert]

Rob/Colin

I would respond to a PM if asked - however  I think my warning is sufficient to make people think if they want to check the status of a supplier in future prior to an expensive purchase.

In defence of the trader concerned I have had an email in the last few days to say that he has the bodies "on order".

I have told him that I've had a replacement direct and won't need one when he gets them.

Chris

[njee20]

Why not just publicise it then? I have to agree that this is broadly useless otherwise. It’s akin to saying “my card details got stolen when using a shop, so y’know, be careful”.

 

A dealer is acting as a Bachman seller whilst not officially being one. I’d want to know, so I wouldn’t use them. 

[The Johnster]

Caveat Emptor, Bachmann publish a list of their authorised dealers on their website and one should be aware that if your seller is not among them then it might have implications for the warranty.  Nothing wrong with this so long as he is not claiming to be an authorised dealer when he isn't, but you would be advised to be cogniscent of this.  The resultant warranty issues should be reflected in the asking price; if it is, it is your informed decision to take the risk, if it isn't, it is your informed decision to buy from someone else.

 

Up to the OP if he wants to name names or not, and in this case I see no reason why he shouldn't, or should.  A little research on the Bachmann website should be sufficient to inform potential purchasers of those sellers who will honour the warranty.

 

 

[njee20]

But the OP has had an experience at an exhibition where the retailer presumably didn’t make it clear he wasn’t an official stockist (which would be a safe assumption when they have current stock). This is, at best, misleading. I’d sooner not support such retailers, but I’ll be honest checking every manufacturer site for every retailer I may conceivably buy from seems absurd.

 

This thread is pointless, even more so because Bachmann resolved his issue anyway. So be careful. Maybe. Or don’t. 

[Paul.Uni]

The Warranty terms and conditions are in the Owner's Information booklet that comes with the loco. For my class 20/0 locos (I assume there is no difference for the 20/3 locos) it states:

Quote

1. This Warranty applies only if the item was purchased from an authorised retailer of Bachmann Europe PLC (‘Bachmann’) within the United Kingdom, European Union & European Economic Area.

 

[romley midland]

48 minutes ago, njee20 said:

But the OP has had an experience at an exhibition where the retailer presumably didn’t make it clear he wasn’t an official stockist (which would be a safe assumption when they have current stock). This is, at best, misleading. I’d sooner not support such retailers, but I’ll be honest checking every manufacturer site for every retailer I may conceivably buy from seems absurd.

 

This thread is pointless, even more so because Bachmann resolved his issue anyway. So be careful. Maybe. Or don’t. 

Given how few shows have been on since these were released it shouldn’t be too hard to narrow this down, my guess would be one of the sound guys like DC Kits or youchoons maybe? Indeed regarding DC, they’re not listed on Bachmann’s website but are selling the very model in question on their website with no caveat that it’s not new unless I’m missing something - if so it seems a bit questionable that.

[martin_l_jones]

Not sure if this has been raised before, I'm just wondering how these unauthorised dealers are getting new products in the first place, I presume they must all be second hand items.

[spamcan61]

14 minutes ago, martin_l_jones said:

Not sure if this has been raised before, I'm just wondering how these unauthorised dealers are getting new products in the first place, I presume they must all be second hand items.

Can be from wholesalers, although some manufacturers don't supply to wholesale any more.

[AY Mod]

2 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Can be from wholesalers, although some manufacturers don't supply to wholesale any more.

 

Or purchased on the open market to add sound and sell as a completed item with their margin derived from the additional product/work.

[njee20]

44 minutes ago, romley midland said:

Given how few shows have been on since these were released it shouldn’t be too hard to narrow this down, my guess would be one of the sound guys like DC Kits or youchoons maybe? Indeed regarding DC, they’re not listed on Bachmann’s website but are selling the very model in question on their website with no caveat that it’s not new unless I’m missing something - if so it seems a bit questionable that.

There have been dozens of shows. So yes, we could pore over the trader list of every show that’s been on and reconcile it with Bachman’s dealer list, or the OP could just say who it is, rather than a witch hunt! Still I now get why we have an ‘ignore thread’ button, do it has been helpful!

[AY Mod]

4 minutes ago, njee20 said:

rather than a witch hunt!

 

He held the name back so as to minimise people running round with torches and pitchforks whilst suggesting caution. The whole thing could have been avoided if the trader had replied within a reasonable time.

[rembrow]

42 minutes ago, martin_l_jones said:

Not sure if this has been raised before, I'm just wondering how these unauthorised dealers are getting new products in the first place, I presume they must all be second hand items.

Not necessarily, there is a well known large retailer in the north west,  who had their Bachmann retailer agreement withdrawn a few years ago, who regularly list new Bachmann stock on their website. Most are not new to market items, having been released several months previously, but are sold as new. It is believed they have a relationship with an authorised retailer, who supplies them with surplus stock