DCC Sound v Non Sound

[TravisM]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned here before but I wonder if there are many who are becoming a little disenchanted with DCC sound?  When it first came out, I was all for it and everything had to be sound fitted, but recently I've found it quite distracting.  I went to a friends house recently and he has a fair number of loco's, all fitted with sound and when we finished the running session, I was left with a headache.

 

I will admit that the quality of decoders, sound files and speakers has improved leaps and bounds compared to stuff released as recently as 10 years ago, so I have no issues there.  I just find that the default volume is set a little too high and if the loco stalls for whatever reason, the decoder usually has to go through the start up process.  I'm the first to admit that DCC sound has a rightful place but after watching several of Tony Wright's YouTube video's of Little Bytham, it's a joy to just watch the train running and listening to the clickity clack as it passes by.

[WIMorrison]

I fully agree with you. I was helping a chap set up automation on his layout and the way he had it set up was driving me crazy as every time something move there was a cacophony of sound - his problem was that he didn't even know how to reduce the volume, or turn it off, and he admitted that his wife gets very annoyed with the noises from his 'train room' as they could be heard throughout the house! Most exhibitions require that sound is either turned off, or reduced significantly - which personally I feel is a good thing.

[Robert Stokes]

Locos have to be sound fitted in my opinion. It is one more step in trying to achieve realism. If I turn sound off one of my locos it just seems less real to me. It's the difference between an old silent film and a modern one.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Sound has become an established feature of running model trains.

At the last large exhibitions I attended, prior to the pandemic, it was noticeable having watched several layouts "with sound", in succession, that when moving on to a "non-sound" layout I found them rather lifeless.

In fact my initial thought on moving over to these layouts, with their eerily silent locos, was that the silent trains looked very silly.

 

Mind you, I'm D&E only, where sound has made the best impact.

Like a few others, I think steam sound is still a bit cr*p.

 

 

.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[Michael Hodgson]

You could just go choo-choo and make chuffing noises.

 

Maybe we should all wear ear defenders at model railway shows?

[TravisM]

My biggest gripe if you can say that, is that all the volume CV’s seem to be set at the same level.  A example is; a Class 37 should be loud at tick over and even louder when accelerating with a base deep enough to move internal organs whereas a Class 158 is quieter when accelerating and basically remains the same decibel level or lower in the cruise.

 

I think if the volume levels are set to match the prototype, then that’s a step in the right direction.

[DCB]

I have not heard a convincing sound fitted loco yet.  Not really surprising when the only control available if the speed control.

The Hornby TV program had a West Country with the chuff speed exactly half the wheel speed and there seems no way any sound fitted loco I have ever come across can match its chuffs to when it loses its feet and slips.  Its not  a criticism of the sounds but the total lack of control.   The sound should control the speed not vice versa, That way accelerating will have loud chuffs, cruising quiet chuffs and slowing very little chuff.  Instead of Panniers blasting along like they have 50 wagons in tow where in fact they are running light.  However that would need a trigger, a Chuff generator, to synch the chuffs to the wheels, and that's expensive.   Chuffs are easy enough.  Sibelius software can create good chuffs from the Percussion menu, you just need a musician to match the sound to a sample.   Like wise every sound fitted Diesel I have heard accelerates like its a Manual gearbox car starting at low revs and getting faster and faster, instead of starting at near maximum revs before it even starts to move.  Sound is the future but its about as developed as the first O gauge electric trains of the 1930s and most of the development is yet to come.

[WIMorrison]

I am lucky enough to live beside a heritage railway and the major aspect I notice is that most real loco sounds can only be heard when you are close to the loco, even the blowing of steam through the chimney to create the draw isn’t that loud. At 100m the sound is limited to the ‘chuffs’ and whistle.

 

Model sound locos need to have the volume attenuated to the same level as the real thing and consider the distance it is being heard from, not have everything as if you are stood on the platform beside the loco.

 

I don’t deny that sound has its place, it can enhance a model but In almost every case that I have seen to date the sound has detracted from other waiter excellent modelling.

[Nigelcliffe]

12 hours ago, DCB said:

I have not heard a convincing sound fitted loco yet.  Not really surprising when the only control available if the speed control.

The Hornby TV program had a West Country with the chuff speed exactly half the wheel speed and there seems no way any sound fitted loco I have ever come across can match its chuffs to when it loses its feet and slips.  Its not  a criticism of the sounds but the total lack of control.  ...

 

Can't help it if the Hornby program showed a poor quality sound setup.   

 

Yes, there's scope to improve sound no end.  But, today, and for at least ten years, using the stock decoders from the likes of Zimo, ESU, Soundtraxx (primarily US outline prototypes), etc..  its been possible to: 

• setup a DCC sound decoder so that it doesn't chuff to a halt (instead there's just some rod clank and light wheezing until the loco stops whilst the loco is decelerating), 
• locos will chuff precisely with the wheel rotation - optionally done with an encoder on the axle, but works fine with software settings *if* someone sets them up properly.   Using an encoder will let wheel-slip work pretty well.   
• loud barking chuffs under acceleration, quieter when going at constant distance
• different types of chuff when pulling a train compared to running light. 

Sound levels for all sorts of things are adjustable, so the sound can be "beside the footplate", or "200 yards away over the field".  

 

And in diesels,  yes, properly setup, they will open up the engine (revs rise), and then apply power which causes the loco to move.   

 

 

One can't help it if some makers have decoders which can't control things properly, or owners have decoders which are not setup correctly. 

 

 

 

- Nigel

[pauliebanger]

15 hours ago, DCB said:

I have not heard a convincing sound fitted loco yet.  Not really surprising when the only control available if the speed control.

The Hornby TV program had a West Country with the chuff speed exactly half the wheel speed and there seems no way any sound fitted loco I have ever come across can match its chuffs to when it loses its feet and slips.  Its not  a criticism of the sounds but the total lack of control.   The sound should control the speed not vice versa, That way accelerating will have loud chuffs, cruising quiet chuffs and slowing very little chuff.  Instead of Panniers blasting along like they have 50 wagons in tow where in fact they are running light.  However that would need a trigger, a Chuff generator, to synch the chuffs to the wheels, and that's expensive.   Chuffs are easy enough.  Sibelius software can create good chuffs from the Percussion menu, you just need a musician to match the sound to a sample.   Like wise every sound fitted Diesel I have heard accelerates like its a Manual gearbox car starting at low revs and getting faster and faster, instead of starting at near maximum revs before it even starts to move.  Sound is the future but its about as developed as the first O gauge electric trains of the 1930s and most of the development is yet to come.

 

Every often cited and false trope in one post. The second sentence is risible.

 

Like sound locos or not - personal choice, no problem. No need to explain one's own choice either.

 

But making outlandish claims in support of a fixed view will always need to be called out for what they are.

 

Sibelius, (I have that software package), musicians, chuff generators all required for steam locos? Maybe you know of such a system? Interesting that you think that synthesising chuffs is preferable to recording the real thing.

 

To me, this just demonstrates your lack of knowledge about how the exhaust beat, (chuff) sounds are generated in a sound project. With TTS sound decoders, the type installed in the Hornby model you refered to  (was it a West Country or a Merchant Navy?) individual chuffs are, by design, not synchronised with wheel rotation, so, as is well known TTS decoders cannot sync chuffs to wheel rotation as the speed varies. These decoders are a special case, is indicative as to their budget price, and why many avoid this type for steam locos. (On the other hand, many users are happy with the price/quality compromise, so not my place to judge).

 

The usual method top draw brands use is to have a number of recorded samples of chuff sounds recorded live from real locos of the class depicted store in the decoder's memory. Some will be recorded at  low speed some from higher speed, some will be from light engine movements some will be when hauling a train, and in my ZIMO sound projects for ZIMO decoders, I also record chuffs at different cut-offs or reverser positions.

When operating, and in real time, the decoder constantly monitors road speed, direction, current draw, 'regulator' position, 'reverser' position, acceleration rate, deceleration rate, manual brake control status and more. Using these, the decoder selects the most appropriate chuff sample (or coasting sound) to play, and at the rate appropriate to the wheel rotation. Obviously, if the model's wheels actually lose traction and accereate violently, the decoder will adjust the chuffs selected (much shorter at high speed) and play yhem at the appropriate rate. I totally refute your different claim on this point.

 

The perception of the quality of sound is an individual thing, there's no doubt. It's even fair to say that a specific sound project may not cover all the the nuances of the real thing, though of course even the real thing can sound different in the hands of a different crew, and almost certainly different from another specimen of the same class.

 

But claiming that sound projects react in the way you describe to support your view that control is poor is a straw man argument. I've no idea what you you've been listening to, or how long ago you formed this blinkered view, but a good sound project will be matched as closely as possible to the physics of the real thing.

D-E locos sounding like D-M? Popycock. It's perfectly possible to pull away wth the engine at 'full power', automatically spooling down when acceration ceases, or when a field divert kicks in. In the same way bowling along at full speed with the engine at 'idle' or 'cruising' power is routine.

 

Of course, the way a user sets up and operates a sound fitted model (including volume level) is mainly beyond the control of the manufacturer. 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[pheaton]

22 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned here before but I wonder if there are many who are becoming a little disenchanted with DCC sound?  When it first came out, I was all for it and everything had to be sound fitted, but recently I've found it quite distracting.  I went to a friends house recently and he has a fair number of loco's, all fitted with sound and when we finished the running session, I was left with a headache.

 

I will admit that the quality of decoders, sound files and speakers has improved leaps and bounds compared to stuff released as recently as 10 years ago, so I have no issues there.  I just find that the default volume is set a little too high and if the loco stalls for whatever reason, the decoder usually has to go through the start up process.  I'm the first to admit that DCC sound has a rightful place but after watching several of Tony Wright's YouTube video's of Little Bytham, it's a joy to just watch the train running and listening to the clickity clack as it passes by.

 

As an owner of over 90 dcc sound locomotives, im going to say......what your saying makes complete sense

 

I cant run them continuously....I can run one perhaps 2 continuously...but if I want to run the maximum I can run (6) and then perhaps have a load idling on my depot...then it all merges into one continuous drone.

 

in terms of sound quality....its all in the start up and move off for me....im not really concerned about the top end when its doing endless loops of the layout... and most of the time if Im using another loco while one is running I tend to switch the sound off on the loco thats doing the loops.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by pheaton

[melmerby]

20 hours ago, Robert Stokes said:

Locos have to be sound fitted in my opinion. It is one more step in trying to achieve realism. If I turn sound off one of my locos it just seems less real to me. It's the difference between an old silent film and a modern one.

Except my opinion it doesn't.

Steam locos especially are nothing like real ones, there is no bass whatsoever and physically there cannot be any due to the small size available for transducers.

 

17 hours ago, jools1959 said:

My biggest gripe if you can say that, is that all the volume CV’s seem to be set at the same level.  A example is; a Class 37 should be loud at tick over and even louder when accelerating with a base deep enough to move internal organs whereas a Class 158 is quieter when accelerating and basically remains the same decibel level or lower in the cruise.

 

I think if the volume levels are set to match the prototype, then that’s a step in the right direction.

No No No.

IMHO many are much too loud for comfort already.

 

Cannot anyone remember the real railway of the 1950s/60s?

Fortunately the models don't get close IMHO, If they did we would all be deaf in days.

 

[pheaton]

17 hours ago, DCB said:

I have not heard a convincing sound fitted loco yet.  Not really surprising when the only control available if the speed control.

The Hornby TV program had a West Country with the chuff speed exactly half the wheel speed and there seems no way any sound fitted loco I have ever come across can match its chuffs to when it loses its feet and slips.  Its not  a criticism of the sounds but the total lack of control.   The sound should control the speed not vice versa, That way accelerating will have loud chuffs, cruising quiet chuffs and slowing very little chuff.  Instead of Panniers blasting along like they have 50 wagons in tow where in fact they are running light.  However that would need a trigger, a Chuff generator, to synch the chuffs to the wheels, and that's expensive.   Chuffs are easy enough.  Sibelius software can create good chuffs from the Percussion menu, you just need a musician to match the sound to a sample.   Like wise every sound fitted Diesel I have heard accelerates like its a Manual gearbox car starting at low revs and getting faster and faster, instead of starting at near maximum revs before it even starts to move.  Sound is the future but its about as developed as the first O gauge electric trains of the 1930s and most of the development is yet to come.

Anyone revving the living daylights out of a D+E loco at zero mph is not driving it correctly...and playing to the crowd I would suspect.... even a class 37 shouldn't be driven that way....normally people I know driving D+E stuff like you describe don't own the loco and don't face the bills involved that quite often result from reckless driving.

 

Every sound recording ive done for biff and Paul chatter reflect that, however as you have very correctly noted in your point "instead of starting near maximum revs before it even starts to move" different people drive in different ways.....that doesn't make the decoder wrong...it just means it doesn't reflect that.

 

similarly when you said about the pannier sounding like its pulling 50 wagons......the decoder doesn't know there is a load behind it....and afaik none of the top level decoders can adjust sound profiles according to current draw.....which means then if you want the scenario you describe you need to have two separate sound profiles...on a diesel thats quite easy to hide because no matter what the load a diesel will sound the same....its just the length of time at the various power setting that will vary due primarily to the electric transmission....a steam engine is different its mechanical principles that move it......so under a heavy load the chuff length would have to be changed....and no decoders can do this own the fly..... so we go back to the multiple sound set principle...but then that uses space on the decoder. so you take the easiest way out...and that is you know people are more likely to have a load behind their loco than light engine....its not a one size fits all solution its a one size fits "more" solution.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by pheaton

[pauliebanger]

22 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned here before but I wonder if there are many who are becoming a little disenchanted with DCC sound?  When it first came out, I was all for it and everything had to be sound fitted, but recently I've found it quite distracting.  I went to a friends house recently and he has a fair number of loco's, all fitted with sound and when we finished the running session, I was left with a headache.

 

I will admit that the quality of decoders, sound files and speakers has improved leaps and bounds compared to stuff released as recently as 10 years ago, so I have no issues there.  I just find that the default volume is set a little too high and if the loco stalls for whatever reason, the decoder usually has to go through the start up process.  I'm the first to admit that DCC sound has a rightful place but after watching several of Tony Wright's YouTube video's of Little Bytham, it's a joy to just watch the train running and listening to the clickity clack as it passes by.

 

Here we go again. We'll get the usual contributors ,on either side of this argument, mostly expressing opinions dressed up as facts.

 

 

Paraphrasing the points made in the above post.

 

Some operators do not read the instructions sufficiently to know the simple steps (for ZIMO decoders, that's by using F keys - the clue is in the Functions List) required to reduce sound levels.

This results in discomfort for some individuals.

This causes disenchantment for some people.

Sounds and speakers are OK, or at least cause no issue.

 

I think you've made a very good case for running with sound attenuated to comfortable levels, and probably best if the sound in the 'not in use' models is either turned off or temporarily muted (by F key use). I agree.

 

 

 

My observations in no particular order:

 

Did you help your friend by explaining/demonstrating how to adjust volume?

 

When criticising default sound levels, please remember that whilst DCC users have the simple option of attenuating the volume, DC users cannot so easilly turn volume up if they find it too low by default. Manufactures and sound providers have wider considerations than the narrow view each of us take for ourselves. Compromise is required.

 

Sound projects are best considered as starting points, ripe for customisation and optimisation for an individuals' or layouts' requirements. For DCC users there are many parameters which can be adjusted to suit individual needs/taste. (Two people may buy the same piece of recorded music but may listen to it in entirely different ways).

 

Engine restarts after stalling. Well, some may say that if everthing is in order, there's no reason for stalling. I know that's not the reality for many, but it's possible to set up the decoder to carry on from where it left off i. e . to not restart each time.

 

In my case, I fit stay alive capacitors which virtually eliminate stalling and consequential engine restarts, so that's a non-issue. Others will disagree with my choice, no problem.

 

Real loco yards are often very noisey, (when you are in them) and it's not possible to turn them down. I usually come away with a headache and ringing in my ears, so perhaps the model is not so far removed from reality by this measure.

 

If you are for or against sound, enjoy your modelling.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[pheaton]

6 minutes ago, pauliebanger said:

 

Here we go again. We'll get the usual contributors ,on either side of this argument, mostly expressing opinions dressed up as facts.

 

 

Paraphrasing the points made in the above post.

 

Some operators do not read the instructions sufficiently to know the simple steps (for ZIMO decoders, that's by using F keys - the clue is in the Functions List) required to reduce sound levels.

This results in discomfort for some individuals.

This causes disenchantment for some people.

Sounds and speakers are OK, or at least cause no issue.

 

I think you've made a very good case for running with sound attenuated to comfortable levels, and probably best if the sound in the 'not in use' models is either turned off or temporarily muted (by F key use). I agree.

 

 

 

My observations in no particular order:

 

Did you help your friend by explaining/demonstrating how to adjust volume?

 

When criticising default sound levels, please remember that whilst DCC users have the simple option of attenuating the volume, DC users cannot so easilly turn volume up if they find it too low by default. Manufactures and sound providers have wider considerations than the narrow view each of us take for ourselves. Compromise is required.

 

Sound projects are best considered as starting points, ripe for customisation and optimisation for an individuals' or layouts' requirements. For DCC users there are many parameters which can be adjusted to suit individual needs/taste. (Two people may buy the same piece of recorded music but may listen to it in entirely different ways).

 

Engine restarts after stalling. Well, some may say that if everthing is in order, there's no reason for stalling. I know that's not the reality for many, but it's possible to set up the decoder to carry on from where it left off i. e . to not restart each time.

 

In my case, I fit stay alive capacitors which virtually eliminate stalling and consequential engine restarts, so that's a non-issue. Others will disagree with my choice, no problem.

 

Real loco yards are often very noisey, (when you are in them) and it's not possible to turn them down. I usually come away with a headache and ringing in my ears, so perhaps the model is not so far removed from reality by this measure.

 

If you are for or against sound, enjoy your modelling.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

I Think he is referring to the older Howes projects Paul which are a bit a pain when it comes to the project going through the full restart process when the loco stalls, but im certain i saw a post which tells you which CV to alter when it comes to that.

 

i think theres an issue with the RTR culture....and it there is a general resistance to tweaking it, for particular use cases and or environments. Microsoft had this problem with windows for example and the resolved it with profiles.....perhaps decoders need a profile option...

 

i think a lot of the detraction to dcc sound is the fact that you have to tailor it to suit your needs....and people don't want to or cant do that, or worse put up with the detractions which leads a perpetual niggle.

[melmerby]

53 minutes ago, pauliebanger said:

 

Here we go again. We'll get the usual contributors ,on either side of this argument, mostly expressing opinions dressed up as facts.

 

 

Sounds and speakers are OK, or at least cause no issue.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

They are not OK, fact.

They cannot reproduce the full range of sounds produced by the railway due to their small size.

It's a physical fact of sound that for the full rich bass needed to complement the higher pitched sounds a very large amount of air needs to be moved.

The speakers at 4mm scale are 25mm at most and cannot move the amount required (You canna change the laws of physics), therefore the frequency response is very lopsided.

 

Maybe it's a modern thing? I can't stand the tinny sound that comes out of a mobile phone speaker but many these days listen to their music that way and watch blockbuster movies on weeny screens.

 

 

[melmerby]

Further to this.

N.B. I am not against sound per se but find the current realisations lacking somewhat.

 

It's a pity the current mode of sound reproduction is wedded to the locomotive etc.

 

If some way was possible of also transmitting the generated bass sound signal to a layout based system as well e.g. a surround sound set up using 4 large speakers at or near 4 edges of a layout (bass is far less directional than high frequencies, the ear being less able to determine the origin), it could be approximately tracked to follow the loco.

 

Train Controller already has such a system called +4D sound which does something like that but all the loco sound is generated in the PC and follows the loco(s) around the layout. No sound comes from the loco itself.

 

Maybe someone could work out a way of synchronising loco and layout based sounds?

[pauliebanger]

16 minutes ago, melmerby said:

They are not OK, fact.

They cannot reproduce the full range of sounds produced by the railway due to their small size.

It's a physical fact of sound that for the full rich bass needed to complement the higher pitched sounds a very large amount of air needs to be moved.

The speakers at 4mm scale are 25mm at most and cannot move the amount required (You canna change the laws of physics), therefore the frequency response is very lopsided.

 

Maybe it's a modern thing? I can't stand the tinny sound that comes out of a mobile phone speaker but many these days listen to their music that way and watch blockbuster movies on weeny screens.

 

 

 

Excuse me.

 

I was paraphrasing the views of the original poster I quoted, not that I think they are OK. I expressed no opinion either way. 

 

Extracting and quoting a single line out of context and boldening the text distorts my point somewhat.

 

Actually, I agree that the current speakers have limitations. I recognise this as well as the next man. I've heard many of my carefully crafted projects strangled at the point of delivery - the speaker installation -but that's beyond my control

 

The difference is they way we weigh any such limitations. 

My persional view is that the difference between sound or no sound at all is profound enough for me to chose sound every time. If perfection was possible, I would of course chose that. I just don't believe that simply because perfection is not possible, I should do without sound completely.

 

You have expressed a different opinion, with which I will not argue.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul
 

[pauliebanger]

3 hours ago, pheaton said:

Anyone revving the living daylights out of a D+E loco at zero mph is not driving it correctly...and playing to the crowd I would suspect.... even a class 37 shouldn't be driven that way....normally people I know driving D+E stuff like you describe don't own the loco and don't face the bills involved that quite often result from reckless driving.

 

Every sound recording ive done for biff and Paul chatter reflect that, however as you have very correctly noted in your point "instead of starting near maximum revs before it even starts to move" different people drive in different ways.....that doesn't make the decoder wrong...it just means it doesn't reflect that.

 

similarly when you said about the pannier sounding like its pulling 50 wagons......the decoder doesn't know there is a load behind it....and afaik none of the top level decoders can adjust sound profiles according to current draw.....which means then if you want the scenario you describe you need to have two separate sound profiles...on a diesel thats quite easy to hide because no matter what the load a diesel will sound the same....its just the length of time at the various power setting that will vary due primarily to the electric transmission....a steam engine is different its mechanical principles that move it......so under a heavy load the chuff length would have to be changed....and no decoders can do this own the fly..... so we go back to the multiple sound set principle...but then that uses space on the decoder. so you take the easiest way out...and that is you know people are more likely to have a load behind their loco than light engine....its not a one size fits all solution its a one size fits "more" solution.

 

 

 

Simon,

 

I greatly value the insights you have given me, and the assistance you have facilitated. I will always defer to your knowledge and experience of diesel locomotives - it's fair to say that my DE projects have been enhanced by what I gained from you.

 

However, there are some points I need to address regarding sound projects and their capabilities.

 

Starting off: Fortunately, modellers do not need to worry about wear and tear to the same extent as owners of vintage machines, thus giving us a greater license.

My ZIMO diesel electric sound projects provide for a number of different 'take offs', using a variety of control techniques to achieve them. They all have options for gentle or spirited departures, not only with the engine sounds but also real-time variable inertia and momentum. I know Bif's and other providers have similar features.

This will enable any user to select the most appropriate 'take off'

 

There’s no reason why a ‘Light Engine’ Pannier should chuff in the same way as when pulling a heavy train. Look to the operator. What should happen is: engage ‘Light Engine’ mode (F key) and select the appropriate ‘reverser’ position, before setting off.

The volume, timbre, duration and rate of exhaust beats will indeed change in real time. Select a different ‘reverser’ position and the change with begin immediately, though I usually design my projects to gently cross-fade to the new set to prevent jarring changes.

If Speed Lock is set up on ZIMO decoders, when activated with the appropriate F key, the speed remains temporarily constant and the ‘regulator’ now becomes a way to select loud or soft chuffs.

But as well as these straightforward manual controls provided to influence the basic project , ZIMO decoders can be set up to respond automatically and in real time to changes in load. I’m pretty sure ESU and Tsunami have something similar.

With ZIMO, any user can set this up with any sound project with a competent DCC controller.

Here’s how:

Determine ‘Norms’ for that specific model on straight and level track.

CV302 = 75 (forwards) or CV302 = 76 (rearwards). An automatic test run is performed (5m required) and the norms are stored in decoder memory.

Then using CVs 275 to 280 the volume changes, thresholds and other parameters can be set.

When moving, the decoder monitors changes in EMF (compared to the norms) and makes load dependent sound changes, in the light of controlling parameters in these CVs.

It should be obvious why this cannot be done by the sound provider or manufacturer as each model must have their specific norms.

So, load dependent sound changes are possible, but it requires a bit of commitment from the user to activate.

 

Sound decoders and the projects which run on them are far more complex (and capable) than many users realise. The features in any given project will be the result of the creator’s knowledge of the real life subject and of the abilities of the decoder software. As I’ve said before, not all sound projects are created equal. I’ve had some shockers sent to me for re-blowing.

 

It’s a very common to hear ‘it can’t do that’ when the reality is often ‘I don’t know how to make it do that’.

 

Please, everyone. Read the User Notes.

 

Best regards,

Paul

[Michael Hodgson]

20 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

I am lucky enough to live beside a heritage railway and the major aspect I notice is that most real loco sounds can only be heard when you are close to the loco, even the blowing of steam through the chimney to create the draw isn’t that loud. At 100m the sound is limited to the ‘chuffs’ and whistle.

I used to live 4 miles from the East Coast Main Line and could hear Deltics when the wind was in the right direction.

Now I live 200 yards from the East Coast Main line, but I don't hear Deltics any more. 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, pauliebanger said:

 

Excuse me.

 

I was paraphrasing the views of the original poster I quoted, not that I think they are OK. I expressed no opinion either way. 

 

Extracting and quoting a single line out of context and boldening the text distorts my point somewhat.

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Paul
 

Sorry if it came across wrongly (so easy to do when typing and not reading it through properly.)

 

As I said, maybe it is a generation thing. I just listen to sound fitted locos and I recall what I remember them as in real life and (to me) it doesn't compare.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by melmerby

[D9020 Nimbus]

The only convincing steam loco with sound I've had so far is a Hornby "Black 5” with ESU Loksound. Oxford's Dean Goods and Dapol's "Terrier" haven't convinced me, though the Bachmann/ESU diesels I have are convincing, as is the Farish/Zimo class 31.

 

What I've seen of the "Fairlie" sounds convincing, so I'm hoping…

[melmerby]

47 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I used to live 4 miles from the East Coast Main Line and could hear Deltics when the wind was in the right direction.

Now I live 200 yards from the East Coast Main line, but I don't hear Deltics any more. 

Shame.

The only time I have ever witnessed a Deltic was when I was holidaying in Aviemore a few years back and a tour, top and tailed by a pair, came through the station.

 

One of the noisiest sounds I remember was a Coronation Class at New Street awaiting departure (latter years of steam operation), the fireman having built up a good fire, the train departure gets delayed and all the safety valves lift - absolutely ear splittingly deafening. The acceleration from standstill was relatively quiet in comparison.

 

The bark of a Collett Castle or King given full gun from platform 7 at Snow Hill was also pretty impressive.

 

(Both observed when standing alongside at the platform.)

[MarcD]

I have both dcc sound and dcc locos on both of my 7mm layouts. one layout "Scratchy Bottom" is a 22ft branch line not enclosed and you can turn the sound up full blast and its lost in the background  show noises. my other layout "WC Boggs" is a cameo type fully enclosed and my terriers make a noise that people can here clearly. having said if you are going to add sound to a layout surely background noise  should be as important, if not more so, as that generated by a loco that is passing through?

 

Marc 

[KingEdwardII]

14 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

but I don't hear Deltics any more.

Electrification has a lot to answer for - no smuts and grime either... 

 

It's hard to remember what things sounded like in the early 1960s when steam was still prevalent. Background chuffing must have been the norm for everywhere except the remotest spots in the UK. Now you can be quite close to an electrified main line and strain to hear a train passing in front of your eyes.

 

At least you can get your sound fix by attending a preserved line.

 

Yours, Mike.