Class 507/508 Kit. (Merseyrail)

[TravisM]

5 hours ago, Steve507 said:

 

I've planned to get the carriages closer, Ive got Kadee #17, short couplings, at the moment their clipped into the normal bogie socket. but the kits cast-resin floor as what looks like moulded sockets so, im going to cut the socket off the bogie line it up with the resin socket and glue it to the underframe and the Kadee coupling should with a little modification to the socket click into it. bringing the carriages closer. so the gap will be just the length of the two coupling heads. But i'm open to any ideas to get them even closer.

 

I've done a trial on 3rd radius bends, and large left/right points to make sure it worked before cutting the bogie.

 

i fitted a small screw, just to hold the kadee coupling. it ran for over an hour without problems.

 

 

 

plan as above modify so the kadee fits.

 

Sounds like a plan but I’m sure you’re aware that the trip pin should be hanging down rather than up, as you have now.  Keep up the good work.

Edited December 30, 2021 by jools1959
Typo

[DCCconcepts]

On 24/12/2021 at 20:53, Steve507 said:

 

the vinyl will stretch, but the problem is the bottom of the door the moulded step sticks out, and prevents the  vinyl sitting completely flat. - i did depress it flat, but next morning it had lifted. - ideally it needs cutting to sit flat on the doors, im yet to do it myself, as im going to install door steps. my plan is to cut the vinyl at the bottom - then push it flat and the step i'll install will hide the cut in the vinyl.

 

The windows are photo etch, and i used evergreen clear plastic sheet 0.25mm. i cut around the window frame, made a template, cut all the windows to this and simply glued it to the back of the photo etch frame, which then sits on the vinyl.

 

im in over my head, having never built a kit before, and my train before this was bought old Lima i had back in the late 80s, till 1992'ish.

 

I glued the windows with some stuff called clear fix from humbrol, after advice from a chap in hobby craft. I nearly used superglue which would have 'frosted' the plastic. I applied the clear fix with a cocktail stick, with what i thought was small amounts, but after removing weights off the windows some had seeped out, thankfully the stuff can easily be cleaned with a bit of warm water and cotton bud rubbed over, as i done on the first passenger window.  (right carriage)

 

 

I've included the latest photo. 

 

 

i'm awaiting a reply from a company who does decals, to see if they can produce an oval decal. which will look neater and stick onto the model better. also hoping they can produce the Merseyrail M logo, and unit number.

 

I've gone full kamikaze and bought two decoders from DCC concepts, Zen Mini, plus two 8 pin harnesses, plus a pack of 2mm white tower LEDs lights, (for headlights) and a pack of Nano Bi White/Red LEDs.(marker/reverse lights) and true to form haven't got a clue how to wire them up.

 

I've been reading this forum. and bits on other sites. but my head is fried with it all.

 

I Bought two 8 pin harnesses, my thinking being, hardwire these to the lights and then i can always change decoders - But its the whole white wire, yellow wire business.

 

Ideally, i want to achieve day and night running lights.

 

so train going forward has maker lights on. and i can via a function turn one or the other headlight on.

 

white wire wired up to the marker lights, and one of the other wires, green or purple to individual control the main headlights. but what of reverse yellow wire?

 

But with two decoders in the same train. how would i wire up the decoder in the reverse unit?

 

anyone know of a diagram on how to wire up - such a set up. 

 

Merry Christmas to all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Steve,

Hopefully, we've answered your lighting query directly, but for the benefit of others, this is how we would recommend wiring two decoders with directional markers/reds and switchable day/night headlights:

 

One decoder is fitted per cab/outer car.

 

One cab/decoder is wired as follows:

White wire to markers,

Yellow wire to reds

Green wire to day headlight

Purple wire to night headlight.

 

Not forgetting a series resistor and common positive (blue) to all LEDs

 

The other decoder is wired in the same way in the other cab but swap over the white/yellow wires to the markers/reds.

 

Give both decoders the same address and the markers/reds will automatically reverse with direction on the F0 key.

F1 and F2 keys will operate the green/purple wires but they can be made directional altering CV51/52

Default for CV51/52 is 32 so that they work in both directions, but by setting CV51 and 52 to 0 in one car and 16 in the other, they will only work in one direction - 0 one way, 16 the other - when F1 or F2 are operated)

 

i.e the day or night headlight will only illuminate when the relevant direction is selected with the markers/reds.

 

Best Regards,

The DCCconcepts Team

[Steve507]

On 04/01/2022 at 14:36, DCCconcepts said:

 

Hi Steve,

Hopefully, we've answered your lighting query directly, but for the benefit of others, this is how we would recommend wiring two decoders with directional markers/reds and switchable day/night headlights:

 

One decoder is fitted per cab/outer car.

 

One cab/decoder is wired as follows:

White wire to markers,

Yellow wire to reds

Green wire to day headlight

Purple wire to night headlight.

 

Not forgetting a series resistor and common positive (blue) to all LEDs

 

The other decoder is wired in the same way in the other cab but swap over the white/yellow wires to the markers/reds.

 

Give both decoders the same address and the markers/reds will automatically reverse with direction on the F0 key.

F1 and F2 keys will operate the green/purple wires but they can be made directional altering CV51/52

Default for CV51/52 is 32 so that they work in both directions, but by setting CV51 and 52 to 0 in one car and 16 in the other, they will only work in one direction - 0 one way, 16 the other - when F1 or F2 are operated)

 

i.e the day or night headlight will only illuminate when the relevant direction is selected with the markers/reds.

 

Best Regards,

The DCCconcepts Team

 

Yes i received a direct e mail reply from Mick, whose been helpful throughout and i'd be grateful if you can pass on my thanks to him.

 

Moving onto the kit build itself. an update.

I started the process of adding the lights, and how best to mount them. but before final install im gonna have to paint the inside of the cabs to help prevent light bleed.

 

The LED's themselves, I used my multimeter to determine which wire was which, the tower LED's was straight forward. i bit less so with the Nano Bi White/Red. having three wires all the same length. - I worked my way through the pack of six, and on the very last one it blew. the red light shone, small pop, smoke and it was no more. - dunno what i did wrong. luckily i only need four. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fenman]

On 25/12/2021 at 12:36, Steve507 said:

…

i'm just surprised the likes of Bachmann haven't in all these years brought to market the class 507's 508's 313's.  the amount of liveries for Merseyrail alone gives plenty of options. now that the 507's/508's are being replaced by the 777's, maybe a manufacturer will produce the unit. …

 

Me too.

 

I thought it would definitely happen after some 313 units were transferred to Southern. I’d also imagined Rail Blue GN versions working splendidly alongside Hornby’s then-new HST. Or run-down Silverlink units on what are now the Overground lines. 
 

Still, now your brilliant build is nearly finished, maybe it’s one of the Big Announcements on Monday…

 

Paul

[Steve507]

38 minutes ago, Fenman said:

Me too.

 

I thought it would definitely happen after some 313 units were transferred to Southern. I’d also imagined Rail Blue GN versions working splendidly alongside Hornby’s then-new HST. Or run-down Silverlink units on what are now the Overground lines. 
 

Still, now your brilliant build is nearly finished, maybe it’s one of the Big Announcements on Monday…

 

Paul

 

I've been waiting 20 odd years for a manufacturer to release the units, But Fingers and toes crossed for Mondays announcement,  - if it was to be announced how long does it normally take from announcement to being available in the shops?

 

by the way who's making the announcement on Monday Bachmann or Hornby?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fenman]

3 hours ago, Steve507 said:

 

...

by the way who's making the announcement on Monday Bachmann or Hornby?

 

 

Both Hornby and Rapido are making announcements on Monday. The times seem to be changing, but Andy Y has said they'll appear on here fron 08.00.

 

Paul

 

[Steve507]

its been a month, thought i'd do a little update.

 

started on installing the decoder, which was straight forward, wired up the lights and remapped the buttons. but made a mistake on wiring up the bi-coloured white/red LEDs and just haven't got around to re-wiring them.

 

made my own decals as well, the black around the lights, M logo, and unit number, used the very basic Microsoft paint. - and decal paper was Mr decal paper (clear) inkjet £7 for 5 sheets off amazon. printed on a standard inkjet printer. then left for the ink to dry for 30mins before giving it three coats of gloss to seal the ink into the decal paper. liquitex high gloss varnish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

wires a bit of a mess but temporary to make sure everything runs. noticed a drop in top speed under DCC control, than under DC.  even with decoder CV altered.

 

used micro sockets to connect wires from dummy unit to motor unit ( middle carriage ) once again picture of temporary set up. windows coming loose due to repeated handling. 

 

 

small pieces of plastic to attach the LED's

 

 

 

headlight lens made from Humbrol clear fix.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve507]

I re-wired the Bi-coloured LEDs. so two marker lights are DCC concepts Nano white/Red. am going to have to send for the nano white light for the upper marker light.

 

move onto creating some sort of interior, and sort out the light bleed. gonna paint the 2mm tower LEDs (headlights) black except for the tip. and make a basic cab. and put a driver in.

 

also my 3rd rail beams arrived from 3dprintcorner.

 

a few pictures.

 

3rd rail beams.

 

day/night/marker/tail lights.

 

 

[Steve507]

3 hours ago, 313201 said:

I must admit the bi-coloured led's are something I have never seen or heard of before, I didn't even know they existed until I saw these pictures.

 

Great work there, looking forward to seeing the end result.

 

Hi mate, same here, found them by chance when browsing DCC concepts website, I had trouble soldering them and the wire is so thin, with the wire being so thin i didn't know how to strip it. to make matters worse my wire stripper would actually cut the wire instead of stripping it, i was getting frustrated, then by accident i found the heat from the soldering iron either melted or burnt away the wire coating, exposing the wire, - but then found the exposed wire the solder wouldn't adhere, so i had to place the wire on a sanding sponge and with another piece of sanding sponge lightly sand the exposed wire, add a bit of flux and the solder would work.

 

I then pressed ahead with soldering everything only to realise i wired them all up wrong. - somehow i labelled the wires wrong, I left it for a day or two and last night i redone it all. Its easy once you've learnt from the mistakes. and i seem to be making mistakes every step of the way. but i sort of get there in the end.

 

 

[Wear Valley Wanderer]

Hi Marc,

 

Looking great so far. Reading these posts has really inspired me to crack on with mine and the help regarding the multiple chips & motor has been invaluable. I honestly wouldn't have had a clue how to wire them up on my own.

 

Regarding your LEDs, I usually use the back of my craft knife and gently rub the insulation off the wire. Probably the 'wrong' way, but it works for me.

 

On my 507 the plan is to use 0402 SMD LED's for the head/tail/main beams (Pre wired because otherwise I'd end up soldering my fingers). Fortunately the wires come colour coded already. I thought it might be an idea to glue in a piece of fibre optic cable into the hole where the headlights are drilled into the cab ends, with the LED glued to the inside end. The whole lot would then get a coat of black to stop light bleed. I originally bought some tower LED's but they're a bit big. I can't find any in 1mm.

 

As for the wiring, I'm thinking of putting it under the carriage floors rather than on the inside (Perhaps inside some kind of box structure?). Not sure yet, as it's a first for me and It's been a real trial thus far. Anyway, I've designed a load of underframe detail for the 507's & 508's, with 3rd rail beams and inside details (Cabs, seats and so on). Many thanks for your pictures in this regard. 

 

I'm enjoying reading your progress and looking forward to the next part.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark 

[Steve507]

On 16/03/2022 at 21:50, Wear Valley Wanderer said:

I've designed a load of underframe detail for the 507's & 508's, with 3rd rail beams and inside details (Cabs, seats and so on)

 

Hi Mark, can you share any pictures of the underframe and inside cabs, seats you've designed. are these scratch built or 3D printed, / Resin?

 

I had a go of scratching built an interior but didn't look great. it would sort of pass looking from the outside but im looking for an alternative as I've purchased three more units. which i've sanded, primed and are ready for the vinyl. so anything which makes it easier.

 

my attempt, with a bit of spare plasticard, and i've stopped at this point in regards to interior. looking for an alternative.

 

 

Question for anyone out there: these 507/508 come as a three car set, with the middle carriage designed to take the motor, so the middle carriage runs as push, pull.

 

I was wondering why this is, is it because its a better configuration to Run?

 

and would it make a difference if the motor (Hornby class 153 motor) was instead mounted in one of the end units, instead of push pull, it would be either pushing two carriages or pulling two carriages depending on direction. this configuration would help with the decoders, not having to run wires from middle carriage to one of the end units for head/marker lights.

 

The unit i've done with the motor mounted in the middle carriage, is fitted with a zen mini decoder, with the wires running to one end unit for the lights. but these are connected by mini sockets, between carriages but these work themselves loose, and im not having a good time with them - the Unit at the opposite end is self-contained with its own pick ups and fitted with a TCS FL4 function only decoder. 

 

Any help / advice appreciated

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anadin Dogwalker]

I asked Ben Ando (Revolution Trains) at Model Rail Scotland as to whyt they weren't doing an OO Pep unit. He said another firm had it in R+D but didn't know or wouldn't say whom. I wish RT would make an announcement and smoke out the other firm.

[Steve507]

1 hour ago, 313201 said:

In respect of the motor being setup in the middle coach, it could be due to tests carried out by the makers of the kit which possibly found that hsving the motor in the middle results in roughly even weight either side of the motor instead of at 1 end so its having to pull or push 2 coaches.

 

yeah makes sense that, and i never really thought of it that way. the one i have up and running runs well with the motor in the middle, the part that's letting me down is wiring from the middle coach to the end unit the mini sockets come loose.

 

I was thinking of using three decoders per set to get around having wires going from one coach to another. but it becomes very costly having three, function only for the lights in each end unit with their own pick ups. and decoder for the motor. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, 313201 said:

I know my unit is not related to thr subject of the thread, however, it does explain the practicality of fitting the motor in the middle coach.  The other way would have been to use black beetle motor bogies ( if available in the correct wheelbase for a 507/508.  These motor bogies do not intrude into the interior of the coaches as they are a complete bogies all in 1 and fully underfloor of the coaches.  This would allow a full interior to be fitted.

 

Do you reckon i'd need one or two motors per three car set? (i've already purchased three Hornby class 153 motors) but would ditch and switch if its worth it. just looked at the black beetles, haven't a clue what ones id need. 🤔

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Steve507

[Wear Valley Wanderer]

Hi Steve,

 

Here's some pics of the underframe and seating.

 

For info :

 

I managed to get a PDF of the original plans for the PEP unit interior seating layout and found it was easier to design and fit the seats individually. They may actually be a whisker too small due to the internal dimension of the model, however I found HO passengers fit really well and they look the part. I also discovered my painting skill are terrible, so please bear with me!

 

I made separate pieces with doors for the ends of the carriages that have seats either side. These are attached to the upper sections (Not the floors). I made separate sections for the dividers that sit either side of the main doors. Not sure if these are clear in the pics as I'll need to get some updated ones. I'm not 100% happy with the cab, but it's okay. I had to design it in such a way as to have room for the headlight wiring. Like you, mine looks better from outside!

 

I spray painted the models in acrylics although I think I'll use enamel next time as the acrylic seems to wear off with little more than a breath of air. This caused me more frustration than I care to remember. I did buy a set of vinyls from Electrarail but went down the masochist route of painting it instead. It looks a lot less shiny and I like the result, but would I do it again? Hmm...

 

I used transfers from Fox and Railtec, including the lining. You have to have the patience of a saint to use the lining, but it works well. Personally I think I'd use a draftsmans pen next time and paint the things.

 

I printed everything in 3d resin using my Anycubic photon.

 

For the door lights, I made these in clear resin with the intention of lighting them from behind. I did a 'proof of concept' piece and it works pretty well. Bit of a fart to put it all together, but I think it will look good when I've finished. 

 

The underframe details were all designed by myself from watching videos and studying photos until my eyeballs dried out. I did the best I could and I think they work well.

 

I discovered the holes for the bogies at the cab ends are too far back on the resin floor as supplied so I repositioned them, otherwise the steps are in the wrong place.

 

I made separate parts for the windscreen wipers, 3rd rail beams, the Tightlock connector detail (For under the actual couplings for which I used underset Kadees), and cab steps.

 

If you have a 3d printer give me a shout.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark 

 

 

[Wear Valley Wanderer]

Here's a couple more pics, including one of the interior. 

 

I'll have to get some more!

 

 

[Wear Valley Wanderer]

Hi Steve,

 

You were asking about lights a little while ago. I've used fibre optic in mine with smd leds superglued to the ends which seem to work really well. I had to carefully widen the holes in the headlights to get the fibre to fit, which it does nicely. I've had a prob with light bleed from the back but hopefully this will be sorted with some black paint. Here's a video of my lights working on the testing track. I had thought the lights were all warm white for the destination boards but one cool white one sneaked in! I don't think it will be too noticeable as it's all glued in now anyway. If you want any pics of the interior, please let me know. 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark 

 

 

[Steve507]

On 06/05/2022 at 11:44, Wear Valley Wanderer said:

Hi Steve,

 

Here's some pics of the underframe and seating.

 

For info :

 

I managed to get a PDF of the original plans for the PEP unit interior seating layout and found it was easier to design and fit the seats individually. They may actually be a whisker too small due to the internal dimension of the model, however I found HO passengers fit really well and they look the part. I also discovered my painting skill are terrible, so please bear with me!

 

I made separate pieces with doors for the ends of the carriages that have seats either side. These are attached to the upper sections (Not the floors). I made separate sections for the dividers that sit either side of the main doors. Not sure if these are clear in the pics as I'll need to get some updated ones. I'm not 100% happy with the cab, but it's okay. I had to design it in such a way as to have room for the headlight wiring. Like you, mine looks better from outside!

 

I spray painted the models in acrylics although I think I'll use enamel next time as the acrylic seems to wear off with little more than a breath of air. This caused me more frustration than I care to remember. I did buy a set of vinyls from Electrarail but went down the masochist route of painting it instead. It looks a lot less shiny and I like the result, but would I do it again? Hmm...

 

I used transfers from Fox and Railtec, including the lining. You have to have the patience of a saint to use the lining, but it works well. Personally I think I'd use a draftsmans pen next time and paint the things.

 

I printed everything in 3d resin using my Anycubic photon.

 

For the door lights, I made these in clear resin with the intention of lighting them from behind. I did a 'proof of concept' piece and it works pretty well. Bit of a fart to put it all together, but I think it will look good when I've finished. 

 

The underframe details were all designed by myself from watching videos and studying photos until my eyeballs dried out. I did the best I could and I think they work well.

 

I discovered the holes for the bogies at the cab ends are too far back on the resin floor as supplied so I repositioned them, otherwise the steps are in the wrong place.

 

I made separate parts for the windscreen wipers, 3rd rail beams, the Tightlock connector detail (For under the actual couplings for which I used underset Kadees), and cab steps.

 

If you have a 3d printer give me a shout.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark 

 

 

 

The undercarriage detail is brilliant, unfortunately i don't have a 3d printer. wouldn't even know where to start with one.

 

I haven't sourced any additional undercarriage detail. just been using the ones supplied with the Kit. - On interior detail i've came to a standstill, - On seating i was thinking of buying this seating ([pic below) i know its station seating, but possibly cutting it into pairs and using them as interior seats. but they could be oversized for the interior? what's the dimensions of the pair of seats you've 3d Printed?

 

 

https://www.modelrailwayscenes.com/collections/station-accessories/products/station-seating-group-of-18-2-pack

 

 

 

On 25/05/2022 at 13:57, Wear Valley Wanderer said:

Hi Steve,

 

You were asking about lights a little while ago. I've used fibre optic in mine with smd leds superglued to the ends which seem to work really well. I had to carefully widen the holes in the headlights to get the fibre to fit, which it does nicely. I've had a prob with light bleed from the back but hopefully this will be sorted with some black paint. Here's a video of my lights working on the testing track. I had thought the lights were all warm white for the destination boards but one cool white one sneaked in! I don't think it will be too noticeable as it's all glued in now anyway. If you want any pics of the interior, please let me know. 

 

Cheers,

 

Mark 

 

 

 

Once again looks brilliant. What's this method of using fibre optic? Do you just cut a length of fibre optic and glue one end to the LED on the 'face' of the LED, and the other end of the fibre optic becomes the headlight lens-  what type of fibre optic do you use and where do you source it from? i wouldn't mind having ago of this method. i've just glued my LED's straight into the headlight holes. its worked but i'd think your method is better. 

 

I was making headlight lenses by using humbrol clear. and then pushing the LED up against the lens before gluing, Ive used tower LEDs for the main headlight and micro LEDS for the other lights.

 

 

 

 

Also i noticed in one of your pictures the middle carriage that contains the motor, if i've seen correctly you seem to have two motors installed in the one carriage. what's the benefit of this just better traction/speed? and does one decoder run both motors?

 

I've been running my train for a few months now without problem. ( i dont have a layout so set up a oval of track to make sure everything is still working) . oh, i did change something, i don't know if i mentioned this, i had wires running between the motor carriage (middle Carriage) and one of the end units to control the lights. but the micro sockets i used just kept coming loose, so i've ditched them and now have a decoder in each carriage. TCSf4 function only decoder in both end units and Zen mini controlling the Motor in the middle carriage. its done away with the micro sockets, but its an expensive way of doing things 3 decoders in one train but it does give piece of mind.

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Steve507
add picture

[Wear Valley Wanderer]

Hi Steve,

 

For the LED headlights what I did was measure the diameter of the hole and buy 1 metre lengths from ebay. It's pretty cheap and readily available. If I can make a suggestion : buy a few different diameters, say one size up and one down from what you measure the hole at. This will make sure you get the best fit. For the price it's well worth it as you use so little and the postage is virtually the price of the fibre. 

 

First of all I make sure the fibre fits snug, but not too much. I snip a length off about 1.5cm and polish the end up with some wet and dry to get it as smooth as poss. You don't need to go nuts with it, just tidy will do. Then you need to get your leds. For these I used : Pre-soldered Micro Litz Wired Leads SMD 0402 LED. You can find these on ebay if different colours. I used orange, red, warm white. For the main beam I used a larger white led but not sure what the code is. It's 1mm though. 

 

I next held the fibre piece in a bit of blue tac. I dipped the LED in superglue and held it on the end of the fibre whilst I sprayed it with some superglue accelerator. I got mine from Screwfix and it's cheap as chips, goes a long way and is good stuff too. Nasty on your loco though so keep checking you don't have any on your fingers. Disaster awaits if that happens.

 

Once dried, I paint the assembled fibre with some simple black paint to make sure I don't get light bleed. When this is dry, slide it into the appropriate headlight hole and when flush with the end, dab a drop of superglue onto the inside to seal it in place. Perhaps a bit more black paint to ensure no lights sneaks out and there you have it. Personally I would have used tower LED's if these had fit, but on the pre-facelift models the headlights are too small and the towers I got are way too big.

 

I did the same with the door lights after making these up on the printer. If I get a chance I'll see about making some more up. I've got some other bits to sort out first though.

 

In regards to the seats, my 3 x seaters are 14.5mm wide (So about 5, per seat), 11.5mm tall and 12mm back to back.

 

The two motor thing was a cock up on my behalf. I thought I'd only bought 4 dummy bogies when in fact I had 5. One had somehow got misplaced and I couldn't find any info on the original order to remind me what I'd bought. Since these are like hens teeth to get now I was in a bit of a corner so went with the two motor idea. I was also hoping it would be strong enough to go up the helix (when it gets made), but you know how these things go. 

 

Like you I went with the multiple decoder route. I went with the cheapo Lais ones (One of which was faulty right out the box!). I have one in each carriage and a Loksound in the middle for the sound and motors. I still have to use the dinky wire connectors between the carriages to carry the power from the door lights (I ran out of available functions) and the feed from the track, giving me six bogies picking up. Very nice, but they are really flimsy connectors. I bought some nicer ones from Roads and rails which are pretty robust. I'll give them a whirl soon. 

 

The major problems I've encountered are that I've got acres of wires which I just cannot hide very well. The other issue is that I can't get the blasted windows right. I've cut them out on a scan n cut machine (Courtesy of a family member) but I keep getting glue all over the damnable things. The word I would use is 'infuriating' to put it mildly so there must be an easier way to do it. Anyway, hope yours is going well. Like I said, I'll have a print run done soon and see if I can get some extras run up. I'll keep you posted on that front.

 

PS/ not sure about that seating, it looks a bit big but it's hard to tell from a photo. I'll have to get some more pics of mine so you can compare. I'm not saying mines right by the way!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Steve507]

On 02/06/2022 at 22:00, Wear Valley Wanderer said:

Hi Steve,

 

For the LED headlights what I did was measure the diameter of the hole and buy 1 metre lengths from ebay. It's pretty cheap and readily available. If I can make a suggestion : buy a few different diameters, say one size up and one down from what you measure the hole at. This will make sure you get the best fit. For the price it's well worth it as you use so little and the postage is virtually the price of the fibre. 

 

First of all I make sure the fibre fits snug, but not too much. I snip a length off about 1.5cm and polish the end up with some wet and dry to get it as smooth as poss. You don't need to go nuts with it, just tidy will do. Then you need to get your leds. For these I used : Pre-soldered Micro Litz Wired Leads SMD 0402 LED. You can find these on ebay if different colours. I used orange, red, warm white. For the main beam I used a larger white led but not sure what the code is. It's 1mm though. 

 

I next held the fibre piece in a bit of blue tac. I dipped the LED in superglue and held it on the end of the fibre whilst I sprayed it with some superglue accelerator. I got mine from Screwfix and it's cheap as chips, goes a long way and is good stuff too. Nasty on your loco though so keep checking you don't have any on your fingers. Disaster awaits if that happens.

 

Once dried, I paint the assembled fibre with some simple black paint to make sure I don't get light bleed. When this is dry, slide it into the appropriate headlight hole and when flush with the end, dab a drop of superglue onto the inside to seal it in place. Perhaps a bit more black paint to ensure no lights sneaks out and there you have it. Personally I would have used tower LED's if these had fit, but on the pre-facelift models the headlights are too small and the towers I got are way too big.

 

I did the same with the door lights after making these up on the printer. If I get a chance I'll see about making some more up. I've got some other bits to sort out first though.

 

In regards to the seats, my 3 x seaters are 14.5mm wide (So about 5, per seat), 11.5mm tall and 12mm back to back.

 

The two motor thing was a cock up on my behalf. I thought I'd only bought 4 dummy bogies when in fact I had 5. One had somehow got misplaced and I couldn't find any info on the original order to remind me what I'd bought. Since these are like hens teeth to get now I was in a bit of a corner so went with the two motor idea. I was also hoping it would be strong enough to go up the helix (when it gets made), but you know how these things go. 

 

Like you I went with the multiple decoder route. I went with the cheapo Lais ones (One of which was faulty right out the box!). I have one in each carriage and a Loksound in the middle for the sound and motors. I still have to use the dinky wire connectors between the carriages to carry the power from the door lights (I ran out of available functions) and the feed from the track, giving me six bogies picking up. Very nice, but they are really flimsy connectors. I bought some nicer ones from Roads and rails which are pretty robust. I'll give them a whirl soon. 

 

The major problems I've encountered are that I've got acres of wires which I just cannot hide very well. The other issue is that I can't get the blasted windows right. I've cut them out on a scan n cut machine (Courtesy of a family member) but I keep getting glue all over the damnable things. The word I would use is 'infuriating' to put it mildly so there must be an easier way to do it. Anyway, hope yours is going well. Like I said, I'll have a print run done soon and see if I can get some extras run up. I'll keep you posted on that front.

 

PS/ not sure about that seating, it looks a bit big but it's hard to tell from a photo. I'll have to get some more pics of mine so you can compare. I'm not saying mines right by the way!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

thanks for the info and help,

 

The station seats i mentioned, their dimensions are, compared to yours.

 

Station seats/(Yours)

Height: 12.68mm (11.5mm)
Width: 65.86mm / 7.31 per seat. yours (5mm per seat)
Depth: 14.92mm  (12mm)

 

Im starting to think i'm getting to caught up on interior detail, something that wont really be that visible. i'd like it to be the best i can do, but. the train is complete except for interior carriage detail and driver cab.

 

I've another kit to do, and want to cross over the things ive learnt from the first one, and implement the hints and tips offered throughout this thread and try and improve.

 

- on the fibre optic, are these the right type, the end lit ones? if so i'll order 1mm, 1.5mm 2mm, & 3mm.

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265591545856?hash=item3dd67d6000:g:P38AAMXQya1Q9CCH

 

 

[Wear Valley Wanderer]

Hi Steve,

 

That looks like the right stuff for the fibre. Make sure you have some very fine emery/wet and dry to polish the ends.

 

Regarding the interior detail I think you're right. I went a bit overboard with mine, but then if you have the interior lit up you're going to see it when the model's going round so having a sensible approximation would be okay. Personally I have wires on show which I wish I hadn't, but since I'm not an expert and only a beginner I've just had to accept that I've done my best and that's that. I won't win any competitions, but I'm happy with what I've done so far.

 

Those seats of yours may need filing down a touch, but the best thing to do would be to get some seated passengers and try them out with blu-tack to see how they look and fit. I use HO figures. They're already painted, look good, and mean I have a bit more space inside.

 

On a side note I've got my holidays coming up in a few weeks so I'll see how long it takes me to run up a set of underframe parts/seats. If you fancy a set I'll see what I can do. 

 

I'm off to play with the CV's on mine now. Ugh!

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

 

 

[Wear Valley Wanderer]

 

Here's a couple more pics of the 3d printed interior pieces including the seating. The door light in the photo with the carriage is 3d printed in clear, painted up in BR blue. I polished the end and attached an orange led which shines through when the doors are 'opened'. Although mine is the earlier pre-facelift version, your model would be a similar job I would imagine. The drivers section is a bit of a work in progress. I found the divider to the cab doesn't really work as it bends too easily. I removed this and glued it in separately. I've left gaps for the lights, however there is enough room under the cab floor for the wires to pass easily.

 

My next job is working out how to hide all the wiring as it looks awful right now. I did have a plan from the beginning, but it didn't quite work out entirely as I wanted it to. I can see why people go for PCB's! Perhaps next time I'll glue everything to the ceiling? For now I'll crack on and see if I can get it all looking halfway decent.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

 

[Steve507]

On 10/06/2022 at 13:45, Wear Valley Wanderer said:

 

Here's a couple more pics of the 3d printed interior pieces including the seating. The door light in the photo with the carriage is 3d printed in clear, painted up in BR blue. I polished the end and attached an orange led which shines through when the doors are 'opened'. Although mine is the earlier pre-facelift version, your model would be a similar job I would imagine. The drivers section is a bit of a work in progress. I found the divider to the cab doesn't really work as it bends too easily. I removed this and glued it in separately. I've left gaps for the lights, however there is enough room under the cab floor for the wires to pass easily.

 

My next job is working out how to hide all the wiring as it looks awful right now. I did have a plan from the beginning, but it didn't quite work out entirely as I wanted it to. I can see why people go for PCB's! Perhaps next time I'll glue everything to the ceiling? For now I'll crack on and see if I can get it all looking halfway decent.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

 

 

The ability to 3d print the interior and cab detail makes all the difference, I think all that you've done is brilliant and the tips you've given will come in useful.

 

I agree with the wires being a pain, the running between the carriages was the worse part for me, hence i abandoned it and went with multiple decoders. - as for the lighting wires/decoder the approach i was going to take was to hide them in the ceiling, in a cavity that exists between what would be the carriage department roof and the roof of the actual train. wires would run along the roof cavity dropping down behind the drivers cab and under the drivers cab floor to the lights. the decoder would be at the back of the carriage in the space that would be created between what would be the passenger corridor door and the corridor connection door -

(bear in mind im yet to implement it, as working on my interior detail as come to a standstill, and im now (unashamedly) watching you trailblazing the way forward.

 

I ordered the fibre optics, but still waiting for them to be delivered.

 

On another matter, The bogies I've used are the Hornby class 153. (pic / link below)

they seem to offer more friction, than say my old 1980's Lima class 156. whose wheels spin more freely. it doesn't seem to be affecting the train running, but if you spin them by hand they stop within 5 or so seconds whereas the old lima ones spin for what seems 20+ seconds.

 

(Hornby bogie - actual link i purchased from) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265028454323

 

 

 

 

Bachmann spare bogie for class 150 (this looks more like my old Lima Bogie and could imagine the wheels spinning more freely than the Hornby.  Do you or anyone else think these Bachmann ones could be used instead?

 

 

 

Also the drive motor. I'm using Hornby class 153

 

petes spares

https://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x9882-class-153-dmu-drive-unit-complete.ir

 

 

Bachmann spares again. would it be possible to use this motor, which im guessing would be a upgrade on the Hornby one?

 

 

housing motor

 

 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Steve507

[Steve507]

9 hours ago, 313201 said:

Hi Steve507

 

The Bachmann motor bogie should be better I would imagine as the big weight block over and around the motor should give more traction ability and the good thing is that they like the Hornby bogies can be run in pairs so if you found that 1 bogie didn't give enough traction, another motor bogie could be installed in the other driving coach.

 

the Bachmann motor and housing looks substantial in comparison to the Hornby motor. - the kit maker recommends the Hornby motor, but do wonder would the Bachmann motor housing fit. even though the Hornby motor performs well, i cant help but feel the Bachmann would improve things further.

 

How would be best to fit the Bachmann bogie? with a screw and bolt? as the kit simply as a hole through the floor. The Hornby bogie simply clicks in. but the Bachmann lacks this.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Steve507

[Steve507]

4 hours ago, 313201 said:

For my personal choice and purely because I have used this way a good number of times recently, I would go with a screw that is just the right size to go through the bogie but will at the same time give plenty of grip when screwed into the chassis.

 

Becausr the xlass 150 bogie has the airbag mouldings, washers will be needed as these will keep the chassis up just enough to prevent the bogies and chassis fouling each other.

 

You could use bolts as an alternative, however, the best way I found with bolts was by using a dab of superglue around the bolt head to secure it to the bogie but washers are still needed to go between the chassis and the bogies, the disadvantage with bolts is that if the bogie got damaged and needed replacing, its a bit of a beep getting the bolt out so out of the 2, screws will be the best way.

 

Bachmann sell screws. - but at £1 each.

https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/824/class-150-screw-power-bogie-32-930/e3293-264-08

 

So fitting of the bogie, it'd get a screw just a tad smaller/narrower than the hole in the bogie. (to let it swivel) this screw would then pass through a washer, a washer also with a centre hole slightly larger than the screw. the washer thickness just enough to stop the bogie catching on the airbags. - the screw would then be screwed solid to the chassis. - stupid question now. would the washer be glued to the bogie? or left loose on the screw?

 

@Wear Valley Wanderer

 

while browsing the Bachmann spares page. - would this coupling mechanism not help with wires running between carriages. lighting? or Motor?

 

 

https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/824/class-150-dmu-complete-assembled-coupling-mechanism-fixingplate-32-930/e3293-289-02

[Steve507]

12 hours ago, 313201 said:

I would guess that about 4 washers per bogie will be needed depending on how many of these bogies you use because the washers should raise the chassis up just enough to allow it to clear the bogie mouldings, I would leave the washers loose as this will allow them to be reused if you decided that the bogies were not right for your unit.

 

I have just thought of another potential idea, this uses plasticard of 40 or 80 thou thickness or a combination of theses which is cut into strips slightly narrower than the airbags so that the strips will not be noticeable behind the airbags.

 

These strips of plasticard would then be glued over where the screw goes on the bogie and would need drilling out to the size of the screw hole on the bogie, these plasticard pieces would provide support to the unit so that the coaches won't wobble in any way when running but they do need to be just a tad higher than the airbags again so they don't foul the chassis.

 

 

Hopefully this picture should help explain what I am trying to say, however,  I should also point out this bogie is a much earlier version of a class 150 bogie I think for an old Dapol version of the class 150 as this bogie has the plastic stretcher almost at the top of the height of the wheels.

 

Now I know the pullman units never had class 150 type bogies but I ran short of actual pullman bogies and my thinking behind my imaginary 7 coach pullman unit was that the bogie was being tested as a potential upgrade to the ride quality.

 

Apologies for the digression but the picture should also show the chassis sitting just above the airbag without fouling it.

 

Hope this helps 

 

 

 

thanks for explaining mate, very useful information ive got a better understanding now if i attempt it on the next one.