Nickel Silver handrail wire for pickups? Or another thickness or material?

[SomethingTrainLover]

Hi all, I'm building an FR K2 and with the gearbox and motor now on order, I'm turning my attention to the pickups, I'm planning on using copper pcb as a base, but for the pickups themselves I'm a bit lost. 

I've been recommended nickel silver wire but I can't seem to find any decent rolls of it, I do however have plenty lengths of .45mm nickel silver handrail wire.

 

Has anyone ever used nickel handrail rail wire for pickups? And what are some other methods, materials, choices or even overall designs for doing pickups in general?

[JeremyC]

I always use phosphor bronze wire. Available from Eileens Emporium (Other suppliers are available). They also do nickel silver wire.

Edited November 17, 2021 by JeremyC

[Phil Bullock]

Have done plenty on locos and tail end vehicles for lamp pick ups with .45mm NS with no issues but do now use phosphor bronze …..

Edited November 17, 2021 by Phil Bullock

[SomethingTrainLover]

Hmm, I'd def have to find a US supplier for phosphor bronze. What thickness is recommended? In general?

[Bucoops]

You have to be careful with phosphor bronze, Inhaling anything from it is a bad idea

[SomethingTrainLover]

14 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

You have to be careful with phosphor bronze, Inhaling anything from it is a bad idea

...Think I'll stick with the nickel silver then lol.

 

I am curious though, between NS wire and say, Copper sheet, which is generally recommended? 

[Phil Bullock]

37 minutes ago, SomethingTrainLover said:

Hmm, I'd def have to find a US supplier for phosphor bronze. What thickness is recommended? In general?

0.5mm seems a good compromise 

[Bucoops]

2 minutes ago, SomethingTrainLover said:

...Think I'll stick with the nickel silver then lol.

 

I am curious though, between NS wire and say, Copper sheet, which is generally recommended? 

 

Copper is too soft and not nearly springy enough

[SomethingTrainLover]

1 minute ago, Bucoops said:

 

Copper is too soft and not nearly springy enough

Much thanks, think I'll stick with the NS wire then

[Nick Holliday]

10 hours ago, Bucoops said:

You have to be careful with phosphor bronze, Inhaling anything from it is a bad idea

Seems a bit alarmist. Unless you have some unusual habits, you're unlikely to inhale anything when using PB wire or strip for pick-ups.  Inhalation only becomes an issue if you are machining or grinding the alloy.

[JohnH]

I've used fine gauge plain steel guitar strings for pickups for several years. Usually Rotosound high 'E' strings of .008 or .009 inch.

 

Despite being steel they don't seem to corrode or tarnish though I do keep them clean and they get an occasional spray with Servisol switch cleaning lubricant. I have two Bachmann 08's fitted with these pickups that run faultlessly.

[Retro_man]

15 hours ago, SomethingTrainLover said:

Hmm, I'd def have to find a US supplier for phosphor bronze. What thickness is recommended? In general?

 

I have used .45mm NS handrail wire for pickups but prefer .35 phosphor bronze straight wire. Both are available from Eileen's Emporium and they will ship to USA and Canada and their service is excellent.

 

Steve

Canada

[garethashenden]

16 hours ago, SomethingTrainLover said:

Hmm, I'd def have to find a US supplier for phosphor bronze. What thickness is recommended? In general?

You want this: https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/n_wire/p/1101-010-phosphor-bronze-wire/Default.aspx

 

Nickel silver is nice for handrails because its stiff. Its bad for pickups for the same reason. Brass tarnishes too quickly. Phosphor bronze is the best option, and what most RTR models use for the same reasons.

[Retro_man]

6 hours ago, garethashenden said:

You want this: https://www.tichytraingroup.com/Shop/tabid/91/c/n_wire/p/1101-010-phosphor-bronze-wire/Default.aspx

 

Nickel silver is nice for handrails because its stiff. Its bad for pickups for the same reason. Brass tarnishes too quickly. Phosphor bronze is the best option, and what most RTR models use for the same reasons.

 

Thanks for the link - it looks like a useful site I was not aware of that has phosphor bronze wire from .008" up to .040".

 

Steve

Canada

[Jol Wilkinson]

I prefer phosphor bronze wire or strip for its flexibility but add a small brass pad (off cut from an etch) as a pickup contact surface with steel tyre wheels. I have found that the brass pad keeps things clean. There is a theory that PB alone can cause pitting on steel, although I have no experience of that.

[Captain Kernow]

17 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I prefer phosphor bronze wire or strip for its flexibility but add a small brass pad (off cut from an etch) as a pickup contact surface with steel tyre wheels. I have found that the brass pad keeps things clean. There is a theory that PB alone can cause pitting on steel, although I have no experience of that.

That's very interesting, Jol, because I always thought that brass attracted dirt more readily than either steel or N/S, certainly when used for wheels. I made the mistake of ordering some brass Ultrascales once and I now find that I have to keep an eye on dirt build up on those wheels (and yes, I am pretty scrupulous about keeping the track clean as well!).

 

As regards the OP, I have used N/S handrail wire and also PB wire, but in each case I prefer something around 0.3mm. I've found 0.45 or 0.5mm wire to exert too much pressure on the backs of the wheels and thus inhibit free rolling of the chassis.

 

If there is sufficient room (ie. no chassis detail that 'gets in the way'), I have also used PB strip as pick ups.

 

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

 

As regards the OP, I have used N/S handrail wire and also PB wire, but in each case I prefer something around 0.3mm. I've found 0.45 or 0.5mm wire to exert too much pressure on the backs of the wheels and thus inhibit free rolling of the chassis.

 

If there is sufficient room (ie. no chassis detail that 'gets in the way'), I have also used PB strip as pick ups.

 

 Certainly something to be watched and is why on wagons I substitute the old split axle Bachmann wheel sets … which have metal stub axles. I place the pick ups on top of these so they not only exert minimal friction but also give springing to the axle. 

[Bucoops]

On 18/11/2021 at 08:24, Nick Holliday said:

Seems a bit alarmist. Unless you have some unusual habits, you're unlikely to inhale anything when using PB wire or strip for pick-ups.  Inhalation only becomes an issue if you are machining or grinding the alloy.

 

Perhaps I need to revisit my methods? Can it be done without use of an angle grinder?

Edited November 19, 2021 by Bucoops

[Jol Wilkinson]

2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

That's very interesting, Jol, because I always thought that brass attracted dirt more readily than either steel or N/S, certainly when used for wheels. I made the mistake of ordering some brass Ultrascales once and I now find that I have to keep an eye on dirt build up on those wheels (and yes, I am pretty scrupulous about keeping the track clean as well!).

 

As regards the OP, I have used N/S handrail wire and also PB wire, but in each case I prefer something around 0.3mm. I've found 0.45 or 0.5mm wire to exert too much pressure on the backs of the wheels and thus inhibit free rolling of the chassis.

 

If there is sufficient room (ie. no chassis detail that 'gets in the way'), I have also used PB strip as pick ups.

 

I think that the rubbing action between the brass pad and steel tyre works to keep that clean. However, the steel tyre on n/s rail is where the dirt  gets picked up, presumably because it is a rolling contact  without any scraping action.

[John-Miles]

I used to use steel guitar strings but after a while they get metal fatigue and break. Have since used phosphor bronze.

[Michael Edge]

On 19/11/2021 at 10:50, Jol Wilkinson said:

There is a theory that PB alone can cause pitting on steel, although I have no experience of that.

Nearly all my locos have p/b wire pickups and most have steel tyres, I've never seen any sign of pitting in 40 years or so.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Well, I did say theory, Mike.

 

Perhaps it is/was based on the distance between PB and steel on the galvanic corrosion scale, but as we don't usually run our models under water, or even in very damp conditions, it may not be relevant.

 

Jol

[GONK43]

Hello

I have used 0.6 mm mig welding wire on my diesel bodies.  Very strong.