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[Widnes Model Centre]

 

Slightly Off Topic:

 

Prices seem to be changing with every day that passes. 

 

One of our suppliers has cancelled orders due to rising prices. He informed us that 20-30% rises to make imports profitable. Wisely he wants to wait until prices of shipping etc stabilise. Might be a long wait.

 

Two items we sell lots of, one was £2.60, now £3.99. Another, £4.99, now £5.99 and we are led to believe another rise in January 2022. 

 

One of of our suppliers announced a 10% increase in prices. When we came to price up new stock, we quickly worked out that some items had gone up between 19 and 20 %. I queried these prices and was told it was actually an ‘Average 10%’. I naturally asked what had gone down in price, to give an average 10%? Nothing was the reply.

 

We worry about stock being stolen.. For that reason we keep the very valuable items locked away. So if you want any balsa or hardwoods, please ask!

 

We have noticed an increase in the cost of pricing labels. Well, what did we expect?

 

Soon be Christmas. 

[Johann Marsbar]

On 26/11/2021 at 13:15, sandsmodels said:

when a local model shop in wsm was shutting down, (in the 80's) the owner died, his son who was selling the stock said everything was half price.

i bought a lindburg lst, the price label said 15 shillings and a few pence, he looked at me and said, can't work that out, how does .50p sounds, so i bought it. i reckon it was in there since the late 60's at least.

 

I found a shop in Warrington in the early 1980's that appeared to be having a clear out of stock before closing, and they had just done a straight conversion from the pre-decimal price and were apparently totally oblivious to what those sort of items were going for nowadays.

I've still got the unmade Kitmaster Italian tank loco (35P), Stirling Singles (60p) and Swiss Crocodile (70p) that I bought from them !!

[sandsmodels]

On 26/11/2021 at 14:13, kevinlms said:

Makes sense to offer it for sale at 50p. Even though more than 1/2 price!

 

The guy had no idea, what it was, what the price sticker meant, what it was worth.

All he knew was that he wanted the shop cleared (probably because the rent was worth more than the monthly sales) and that if he didn't sell it to you for 50p then it would probably go in the skip, which might cost him money to get rid of.

 

It was to late for a crash course in working out what the price on it meant.

 

ps I have no idea what a 'lindburg lst' is either! Some sort of WW2 Landing Ship?

the lindburg lst is a 1/245th scale landing ship tank that when released could have a motor and propeller in it to play in the bath, as i was doing 1/300th scale gaming at the time i thought it worth getting, i never built it but sold it on at a show for about £10 many years later. it was re-released some years back. https://modelingmadness.com/review/misc/ships/berghlst.htm

Edited November 29, 2021 by sandsmodels
addition

[Harlequin]

A model shop I visited recently had price stickers on everything but when I got to the counter with my selection the proprietor looked each item up in a little book, muttering, "that one's wrong", "that's less", "that's more"...

 

I may as well have just rolled a dice to guess the true cost of each item!

 

Not going back there any time soon.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Harlequin

[Georgeconna]

3 hours ago, 40F said:

 

 

No as you cannot operate a two tier pricing rule. It is far easier to reprice the residual stock as it balances out the cost of the new items ordered at the new cost price. Anyway if you had 10 of the same kit in stock why would you order more?  

 

Ok, 10 was a Figure I plucked out of thin air. I dont know how many HQ had in stock, Could of been none or 10, Not sure what the Trigger was to set off the a re order.

 

HQ bought the kits and sent them out to the shops. I had normally 1of each in the shop (large ones, say Airfix kits, Hornby rolling stock etc 1 of each,  Good Sellers maybe 2 items in stock.)

 

HQ also did mail order and had other 3 outlets so every so often an order went into Revell, Hornby, Baccy etc to replenish stock and if the suppliers upped the cost then this affected the stock to hand also, We're not taking 1000's of items here and the pricing  on boxes was changed immediately as the POS was a BAR code reader and the price cost in the system would of been updated straight away too. I was surprised myself when I started TBH but when explained it made sense.

 

Storage wise I was lucky to have a space for a 6 pack of loo roll and some empty packaging so no luxury to separate stock.

 

Hope fully the other chaps has cover the reasons behind this instead of some of you thinking its a bit sneaky.

 

 

 

 

[40F]

23 hours ago, Georgeconna said:

 

Ok, 10 was a Figure I plucked out of thin air. I dont know how many HQ had in stock, Could of been none or 10, Not sure what the Trigger was to set off the a re order.

 

HQ bought the kits and sent them out to the shops. I had normally 1of each in the shop (large ones, say Airfix kits, Hornby rolling stock etc 1 of each,  Good Sellers maybe 2 items in stock.)

 

HQ also did mail order and had other 3 outlets so every so often an order went into Revell, Hornby, Baccy etc to replenish stock and if the suppliers upped the cost then this affected the stock to hand also, We're not taking 1000's of items here and the pricing  on boxes was changed immediately as the POS was a BAR code reader and the price cost in the system would of been updated straight away too. I was surprised myself when I started TBH but when explained it made sense.

 

Storage wise I was lucky to have a space for a 6 pack of loo roll and some empty packaging so no luxury to separate stock.

 

Hope fully the other chaps has cover the reasons behind this instead of some of you thinking its a bit sneaky.

 

 

 

 

How many model shops have more than one branch ? Not many

You obviously worked for a chain and their polices CAN be and often are different than one man bands who often do not have expensive EPS systems.  

Edited November 30, 2021 by 40F

[Deltic]

On 26/11/2021 at 16:58, 40F said:

 

You would pay the new rate of VAT on ANY sales made from day one of the new rate, regardless of how old the stock is.

Naturally you change as requested on VAT Levels, what the thread mentioned was increasing old stock to reflect the new higher Retail Prices. Hence my comment that if you do that then you pay more VAT, nothing to do with Vat Rates. I just pointed out that this would be the only time that you had no choice - same with if they reduce.

 

Retail Prices are actually 120% as they normally include VAT at the 20% Rate, hence why VAT Free is not a 20% reduction on the displayed price.

[Deltic]

On 29/11/2021 at 13:25, 40F said:

No as you cannot operate a two tier pricing rule. It is far easier to reprice the residual stock as it balances out the cost of the new items ordered at the new cost price. Anyway if you had 10 of the same kit in stock why would you order more?  

Not sure that statement applies to all model shops.  Without bar codes and EPOS you can operate various tiers - which reflect the RRP at the different price points.

 

The limitations of EPOS - unable to have different prices for the same barcode - reduces the effectiveness.  As it is not just the Sales that it works against it also gives a skew to Stock Valuation for End of Year accounting as it is not a true reflection.  In addition if a supplier offers a reduction in Trade Price the stock value cannot be a true value on EPOS, as the value will be the same for all purchases using the same barcode identity.

 

Each to their own, at the day end.

[Deltic]

17 hours ago, 40F said:

How many model shops have more than one branch ? Not many

You obviously worked for a chain and their polices CAN be and often are different than one man bands who often do not have expensive EPS systems.  

Then consider that a One Outlet operation has to take the MOQ, which may well be 6 items of the same product. Many would love to be able to just order in singles, but that is not how it happens in the Retail World.

 

Not only that but with say points you need to try and keep a good number to hand - otherwise a Customer wanting multiples of the same product may go elsewhere.

[Widnes Model Centre]

6 hours ago, Deltic said:

 

 

Retail Prices are actually 120% as they normally include VAT at the 20% Rate, hence why VAT Free is not a 20% reduction on the displayed price.

 

Have to admit, this has confused me. 

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

Have to admit, this has confused me. 

If price is £100 ex VAT at 20% , it is it £ 120 inc VAT of £ 20

But 20% reduction of displayed price of £120 would be £24, ie £4 more than the VAT.

[Widnes Model Centre]

6 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

If price is £100 ex VAT at 20% , it is it £ 120 inc VAT of £ 20

But 20% reduction of displayed price of £120 would be £24, ie £4 more than the VAT.

 

No Michael, l get that part. It’s the retail price is 120% that l don’t get.

 

l don’t profess to know the VAT system and all it’s vagaries. What l don’t understand is why a non VAT registered business quotes the RRP when  selling. That RRP includes VAT which they aren’t allowed to charge. So shouldn’t their selling price be the RRP ex VAT? 

 

Back to VAT school for me?

Edited December 1, 2021 by Widnes Model Centre
Typo

[Kris]

4 hours ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

No Michael, l get that part. It’s the retail price is 120% that l don’t get.

 

l don’t profess to know the VAT system and all it’s vagaries. What l don’t understand is why a non VAT registered business quotes the RRP when  selling. That RRP includes VAT which they aren’t allowed to charge. So shouldn’t their selling price be the RRP ex VAT? 

 

Back to VAT school for me?

Even if a shop is not VAT registered they can still charge the full RRP, it just means that they will make a greater profit on the item than a shop that is VAT registered, however the non registered shop will have had to pay VAT on the item when they purchased it where as the registered shop will have been able to reclaim any VAT paid. 

[Andy Hayter]

21 minutes ago, Kris said:

Even if a shop is not VAT registered they can still charge the full RRP, it just means that they will make a greater profit on the item than a shop that is VAT registered, however the non registered shop will have had to pay VAT on the item when they purchased it where as the registered shop will have been able to reclaim any VAT paid. 

 

I doubt it.

 

Shops pay VAT when they purchase goods for sale.  A VAT registered shop claims this back.  A non-registered shop cannot claim the tax back

[wasabi]

It is based on a business' turnover so if sales are over £85,000 (I think this is the current figure) then tax is charged on 'value added' which is basically the difference between cost and sale value.  The VAT paid on the purchase of the goods is deducted when paying the tax.  A retailer buying from a small supplier (aka cottage industry) may well not be charged VAT on the purchase, but if that retailer's own turnover is above the £85k then they will have to charge VAT on their own sales (I know there are exempted items to complicate matters).  The principle is actually quite straightforward but the application makes it very complex.  I have been involved with two VAT registered concerns in the past including a local CAMRA beer festival - the Inspector went through the books on my kitchen table!  I did learn enough to get that one deregistered before the next event.

 

 

  

[kevinlms]

14 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

If price is £100 ex VAT at 20% , it is it £ 120 inc VAT of £ 20

But 20% reduction of displayed price of £120 would be £24, ie £4 more than the VAT.

No, 96 pounds is the total price, but the amount paid to the government is not 24 pounds, it's 20% of 96 pounds or 19.20 pounds.

 

I won't ask you to do my accounting/tax!

[Andy Hayter]

Nor I you Kevin.

 

£96 is the price including VAT.  So the nett price is £80 (96/1.2) and the VAT on this purchase is £16.

 

[kevinlms]

10 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Nor I you Kevin.

 

£96 is the price including VAT.  So the nett price is £80 (96/1.2) and the VAT on this purchase is £16.

 

Fair enough!

[2E Sub Shed]

And if you are selling second hand (sorry pre-loved)  items then you can use a VAT-margin-schemes and VAT is 16.67% on the difference.

[SamThomas]

On 22/11/2021 at 15:53, Grovenor said:

But you labelled them for the markup you wanted so why do you need to relabel?

Only new stock needs the new prices.

Does not work like that - a friend of mine was threatened with prosecution from Trading Standards for having old stock & old prices & new stock with new prices on show at the same time (talking identical items here).

She maintained that it was fairer to the consumer to sell at the old price but to no avail.

 

Another reason the largere retailers stoppesd using pricing guns was the introduction of EPoS systems & barcode scanning.

[SamThomas]

On 26/11/2021 at 16:15, Bernard Lamb said:

But don't come back in a year or two and expect to find them still in business.

You might well disagree, but basic economics supports the policy.

Prudent business rather than profiteering. You have to make enough profit to be able to buy more stock.

Bernard

 

Agreed,

 

It's quite possible in this day & age to find that you can sell an item that has been in stock for ages sells for say £5.00 & when you order a replacement stock item that because of inflation costs you.............£5.00.

So, your stock level remains the same but you have not made any profit.

[Deltic]

On 09/12/2021 at 13:24, SamThomas said:

Does not work like that - a friend of mine was threatened with prosecution from Trading Standards for having old stock & old prices & new stock with new prices on show at the same time (talking identical items here).

She maintained that it was fairer to the consumer to sell at the old price but to no avail.

 

 

Not sure on that, as the Legal Contract is based on each item, the Sale Price being agreed by both Parties. So in this case you can have different prices. 

 

What you cannot undertake is to sell at a higher price than the label - unless the Purchaser has agreed to pay a higher price - again made a Contract, especially if the higher price includes an extra service such as wrapping. Though the issue on incorrect price labelling against charge does mainly cause an issue when using ePOS, which is why supermarkets normally give a higher Refund should such an issue arise - as a form of compensation.

[Deltic]

On 26/11/2021 at 16:58, 40F said:

 

You would pay the new rate of VAT on ANY sales made from day one of the new rate, regardless of how old the stock is.

I was not mentioning a VAT Rate change, this was about increasing prices of old stock to the same level of new stock.

 

It is obvios that a VAT Rate increase will lead to a higher price being charged and the tax collected be higher.

[Michael Hodgson]

On 29/11/2021 at 14:43, Johann Marsbar said:

 

I found a shop in Warrington in the early 1980's that appeared to be having a clear out of stock before closing, and they had just done a straight conversion from the pre-decimal price and were apparently totally oblivious to what those sort of items were going for nowadays.

I've still got the unmade Kitmaster Italian tank loco (35P), Stirling Singles (60p) and Swiss Crocodile (70p) that I bought from them !!

Last time I bought a model from a shop in Warrington, all the prices were £sd because decimal money hadn't come in yet!

[40F]

1 hour ago, Deltic said:

I was not mentioning a VAT Rate change, this was about increasing prices of old stock to the same level of new stock.

 

It is obvious that a VAT Rate increase will lead to a higher price being charged and the tax collected be higher.