Close coupling elderly coaches

[teeinox]

This is my third go at getting this post right! Oh technology!

 

Most of the coaches I have are second-hand.  The newer ones have NEM sockets and close-coupling mechanisms (CCMs) which I find very successful.  But when it comes to the more elderly coaches, couplings are a problem.  They usually come with either huge tension lock couplings, freakish arrangements, or things which are just plain broken.  So I decided to see whether I could convert some elderly coaches to NEM sockets and CCMs.  And this is the story.

I already have a set of Hornby Hawksworths which are close-coupled using Hornby’s standard Roco-derived couplers, and they would set the standard.  But I wanted to include some Sunshine coaches in the set to create that authentic GWR/WR “mixed” appearance.  The only RTR source of Sunshine coaches is the Mainline/Bachmann version.  Dating back to yesteryear, coupling arrangements are ancient, so the challenge was whether I could convert them to NEM and close-coupling.

Given the risk, this had to be a cheap experiment where if the surgery involved ruined the coach, it could go in the bin.  That problem was met by eBay yielding a knocked-about Mainline Corridor Second at £12.40 including postage.  The other ingredient was Hornby’s NEM close-coupling mechanism X9098M which Hornby sold to enable you to convert its lighted Pullmans to NEM sockets.  I had a couple of sets surplus, so they came free.

The first issue was the gangways and the buffers.  Mainline gangways are shorter than the Hawksworths, but the buffers are much longer and not sprung, and given they are part of the character of the coach, I really did not want to shorten them.  So I did some initial measuring of the distancing of the Mainline coach in relation to the Hawksworths, and, given I do not have anything sharper than second radius curves, it seemed that it could work with the gangways set really close on the straight and no buffer issues on the curves. 

The other issue was ride height and wheel clearance.  The Mainline coach runs low, so I put a plasticard washer over the bogie spigot to lift it to the correct height.  With that adjustment, the CCM fitted perfectly in terms of height, width and projection.  While the drawbar required some minor trimming, no packing or butchering of the coach was needed.  However, the action of the mechanism is not identical to how it operates on the Pullmans, and so the installation had to be rather different.  It was trial and error to place the pieces of plasticard for the stops and to shape the guiding cam to fix on the headstock. The result was to give the drawbar a 20mm arc of movement which was adequate.  The photo shows how it fits.

 

 

The drawbar is held in place by the plastic retention plate which comes as part of the kit.  The plate fitted perfectly between the solebars, but I could not locate it in the same position as Hornby does because that would have stopped the pegs on the drawbar reaching the stops.  So it had to be located to the rear of the underframe bogie boss.  Dampers, made out of foam pads, are glued onto the retention plate.  They help reduce the lateral shake from which these coaches seem to suffer badly.

As for the bogies, a slot needed to be cut in the headstock to accommodate the NEM drop.  The slot is 6mm wide.  This allows the drawbar some play: necessary because the trajectory it takes on curves is not the same as that of the bogie.  The surgery was easy enough, but it does weaken the bogie structure.  The wheelsets run O.K., but over time, who knows?  Here is a picture of the modified bogie:

 

 

And when everything is put together, we get:

 

 

The test runs were fine, with no gangway clashes, buffer locking or derailments over points.  Here is how it looks coupled to a Hawksworth: still a gap, but much better.

 

 

So, since I had another spare set of CCMs, I bought another coach, the Replica Railways version.  The process was the same, though no height adjustment was required because Replica Railways had corrected that.  However, the big issue that surfaced was buffer length.  The Sunshine coach buffers are long, and if two Sunshines are to be close-coupled together, the length of buffers prevents engagement, still less going round any sort of curve!  One solution was to shorten all the buffers, probably by a minimum of 2mm.  The other was to shorten the buffers on one end of one coach by a drastic 4mm.  I chose the latter because the Mainline coach already had one buffer shank snapped off (what do you expect for £12.40?), so I was faced with replacing that anyway.  The downside is that it is not a flexible arrangement.  The Mainline coach can only couple at its shortened buffer end to the Replica one, and I cannot couple any further Sunshine coaches together to form a rake.  On the other hand, I have maintained the original, distinctive appearance of three sets of buffers at the cost of mutilating just one buffer.  The photo shows how it looks.

 

 

Test running showed that when propelled on reverse curves, the full-length buffers locked behind the gangway connector buffing plate on the “shortened” coach.  Some judicious paring away of its plate seems to have solved this, but clearances are tight.  However, when hauled, there isn’t a problem as shown here on a 2nd radius curve:

 

 

So, a successful experiment; the coupling arrangements are modernised, they run well, and they look the part.  The bad news is that the X9098M kit now appears to be out of stock, and I am not convinced that Hornby intend to make any more.

[31A]

Interesting to see how you've gone about doing this, and good to see a successful result.  If you can't get any more of the Hornby parts, I wonder whether you've come across these kits from Keen Syatems?

 

https://www.keen-systems.com/Couplings.html

 

I have used them on on Bachmann BR Mk1 suburban coaches, using Roco couplings to couple them to each other or to Hornby coaches fitted with CCMs, so I should think they could be fitted to Mainline / Replica GW coaches without too much difficulty.

[Mallard60022]

18 minutes ago, 31A said:

Interesting to see how you've gone about doing this, and good to see a successful result.  If you can't get any more of the Hornby parts, I wonder whether you've come across these kits from Keen Syatems?

 

https://www.keen-systems.com/Couplings.html

 

I have used them on on Bachmann BR Mk1 suburban coaches, using Roco couplings to couple them to each other or to Hornby coaches fitted with CCMs, so I should think they could be fitted to Mainline / Replica GW coaches without too much difficulty.

Steve, do we tell this ingenious lad about Hunts?

Phil

[brossard]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Steve, do we tell this ingenious lad about Hunts?

Phil

 

Well I certainly think so.  I think they are the bee's knees and quite possibly a game changer.  Haven't used them myself as I do 0 gauge, but my friend has already fitted several rakes with them and has plans for more.  They perform brilliantly.  To get good close coupling, I would completely remove the rigid plastic gangways and replace with folded paper ones a la MJT.

 

John

[ejstubbs]

12 hours ago, 31A said:

If you can't get any more of the Hornby parts, I wonder whether you've come across these kits from Keen Syatems?

 

https://www.keen-systems.com/Couplings.html

 

I have used them on on Bachmann BR Mk1 suburban coaches, using Roco couplings to couple them to each other or to Hornby coaches fitted with CCMs, so I should think they could be fitted to Mainline / Replica GW coaches without too much difficulty.

 

The Keen Systems web site has a list of vehicles to which the Keen close couplers can be fitted: https://www.keen-systems.com/Fits To.html as well as fairly detailed instructions for fitting the close couplers (and corridor connections, which they also sell) to various different vehicle types: https://www.keen-systems.com/Installations Index.html

 

It's a wee bit "old skool" in that you have to order by post including a cheque or PO, but the product is sound and service reasonably prompt.  If you prefer to do it all online then Peter's Spares also sells the Keen Systems products through their web site and on eBay (and there may be other outlets of which I am not aware).

[Mallard60022]

10 hours ago, brossard said:

 

Well I certainly think so.  I think they are the bee's knees and quite possibly a game changer.  Haven't used them myself as I do 0 gauge, but my friend has already fitted several rakes with them and has plans for more.  They perform brilliantly.  To get good close coupling, I would completely remove the rigid plastic gangways and replace with folded paper ones a la MJT.

 

John

I have adapted them too so that in a fixed rake of Wagons I can adjust them as required for curvature, as well as using my own simple mounting fettles. That's what made me think  that teeinox could do the same without the hacking. However those Buffers are a bit of a fag being so long BUT he/she could have an experiment. Think I might have told you before that I haven't fitted any to Coaches yet as the existing NEMS are hidden by my Paper Bellows?

Yes, I think Hunts have been a game changer for me for goods stock so far. (4mm)

Phil

[Mallard60022]

8 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

 

The Keen Systems web site has a list of vehicles to which the Keen close couplers can be fitted: https://www.keen-systems.com/Fits To.html as well as fairly detailed instructions for fitting the close couplers (and corridor connections, which they also sell) to various different vehicle types: https://www.keen-systems.com/Installations Index.html

 

It's a wee bit "old skool" in that you have to order by post including a cheque or PO, but the product is sound and service reasonably prompt.  If you prefer to do it all online then Peter's Spares also sells the Keen Systems products through their web site and on eBay (and there may be other outlets of which I am not aware).

I have some Keens and have since about ten years ago, but, as with many other things, I haven't actually fitted any yet. They are a neat little KIt though. Horses for courses really.

Phil

[teeinox]

Thanks, folks, for the replies.

 

I knew about the Keen system, but wasn't sure whether they offered an NEM socket.  I think they do, but the installation issues would probably have been similar.  And as the Hornby kits were doing nothing in my spares box, they got used!

 

I have a parcels train, composed of elderly models, each one of different type and manufacture (as an authentic parcels train should be)  which I would quite like to convert to close coupling, if nothing else so that they can be attached individually as tail traffic.  However, it involves 4-wheeled, 6-wheeled as well as bogie vehicles, each one with unique issues.  So I am pondering, pondering.....

 

teeinox

[ejstubbs]

On 24/11/2021 at 19:35, teeinox said:

I knew about the Keen system, but wasn't sure whether they offered an NEM socket.  I think they do

 

On this page of the Keen Systems web site it states: "The Roco Auto Coupler can be fitted as a direct replacement to the standard coupling pockets where automatic coupling is required," accompanied by a photo of the Roco coupler with its NEM swallowtail.  IIRC (it's a while since I did it) you can simply glue a 'lid' of plastikard on to the open-topped socket that's moulded as part of the Keen Systems sliding drawbar to make it in to a conventional enclosed-on-four-sides NEM socket.

 

On 24/11/2021 at 19:35, teeinox said:

the installation issues would probably have been similar

 

I know next to nothing about the "Sunshine" coaches but I think the term refers to GWR Collet coaches.  If that's the case then on this page of the Keen Systems web site it states: "...the Close Coupling System will fit  directly to the under side of the floor" of the  Mainline/Bachmann GWR Collet coaches.  (They certainly fit directly to the floor of my Bachmann LMS panelled coaches, which are also listed on that page.  Actually it looks like they don't fit these coaches: see my post about it on another thread.)

Edited December 9, 2021 by ejstubbs