RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted November 19, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2021 Not sure whether this is the right place for this question, but couldn't find anywhere better. Mods please move if necessary. Are any kits available for this, or any of the other 1957 build experimental Mk1's? Or just the sides, I have an underframe I can use. Cheers N 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5D_Stoke Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 (edited) A fascinating carriage. You don't mention the scale you work in, but I have designed and successfully 3D printed a pair of 4mm scale sides, with the accurate flatter sided profile for this carriage. They are designed to fit a modified Hornby underframe and ends, keeping costs down. I'd not publicised them being available for sale through Shapeways as I've not yet built them up into a test model, and I was also going to design an interior to match, to print in a cheaper material. If flush glazing is desired this will need to be cut individually but I am investigating 3D printed bespoke glazing if it can be home printed in clear resin to a push-fit accuracy and and polished to a transparent finish (these are big "ifs"!). The sides are £19 for a pair including VAT but not P&P, see https://www.shapeways.com/product/XXLYQTXQR/br-mark1-open-first-3083-body-sides-x2-4mm-scale?optionId=204884182&li=shops (for UK purchasers since Brexit, please be aware that, depending on the overall order value, VAT may be charged by Shapeways at source or, on larger orders, be charged with an additional fee by the shippers on delivery instead). Edited November 20, 2021 by 5D_Stoke 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted November 20, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2021 Hi, that's great, thanks. Yes, 4mm scale, will these fit a spare cooper craft mk 1 underframe please? I've since found that Southern Pride did etched brass sides, but they don't seem to be available anymore. I had a rider in this coach recently, behind the Queen of Green, 40106. It's very well presented, immaculate on the inside well as exterior. Cheers N Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5D_Stoke Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 (edited) The tabs along the bottom of the sides are a fit to the Triang/Hornby underframe unit as these were made in their hundreds of thousands and are pretty accurate, cheap and available, and make a very strong model that can be well detailed with footboards and all the bits and pieces. I am not sure about the Cooper Craft one as I've not made a CC underframe myself, have one unbuilt somewhere but not sure which box its in! What I do know is that the Southern Pride underframe had slots that are a bit different to the Triang Hornby ones so these sides would not be a direct fit onto Southern Pride. For anything else, like Cooper Craft, the tab along the bottom of the sides could be sliced or sanded off if necessary to get a good fit. I think there have been a couple of sources of etched sides over the years but a problem has always been getting the distinctive side profile right for this carriage, it is subtly different to a standard Mark 1 to accommodate the unusual window units, and hence the doors, etc are all non-standard. I have captured that profile from drawings, measurements and photos; 3D printing is ideal for this sort of application. The material from Shapeways is the best available but will have some minor ridging that should disappear under a primer filler, lightly sanded but avoiding the hinges and door bump stops which are all printed on. Door and grab handles will need to be added, probably best after painting and lining. In case anyone is wondering about the price, I've nested these sides together as closely as possible to ensure the minimum build volume to keep the cost as low as possible. This also keeps them straight and level when in transit and it is best to keep them sprued together until just before you want to use them; 3D prints can distort sometimes though this is usually sorted by immersing in warm water. I add about US$2dollars fee so really the price you pay is little more than Shapeways manufacturing cost. I would print these at home but my printer isn't large enough to do the sides in one hit. 3083 is a lovely carriage, have ridden in it a couple of times, must be the pride of the SVR Mark 1 fleet, but being an elderly and non-standard example it can't be easy to keep it in tip top condition. Edited November 20, 2021 by 5D_Stoke 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted November 20, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2021 Ok thanks, I'll put an order in. I have a couple of spare Hornby underframes, so if it doesn't go on the CC underframe, it'll still be used. Does it need the Hornby roof as well? Cheers N 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5D_Stoke Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 (edited) Yes the 3D printed sides have the small lip along the top to engage with the Triang/Hornby roof moulding (not included) and hold everything straight and level. Of course all the roof detail will need to be re-worked for an accurate portrayal. Here is a comparison photo with a Hornby BSK side, they are actually the correct length +0.5mm which can be gently filed away to match the end profile and make an invisible join. The photo makes them look longer, it's an illusion from them being printed back to back sprued together, slightly offset. I must stress I've not built mine up into a model to show you how it goes together as I'm currently awaiting some cancer surgery and treatment so hope it will be one of my therapeutic model making projects in the next few months. Might even start a thread on it! Edited November 20, 2021 by 5D_Stoke 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965Nick Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 These look fantastic, would they scale down to 2mm scale? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 10 hours ago, rodent279 said: Hi, that's great, thanks. Yes, 4mm scale, will these fit a spare cooper craft mk 1 underframe please? I've since found that Southern Pride did etched brass sides, but they don't seem to be available anymore. I had a rider in this coach recently, behind the Queen of Green, 40106. It's very well presented, immaculate on the inside well as exterior. Cheers N Have you tried getting in touch with SP? As I believe he still has the sides in stock, just hasn't added them to the website yet. It's just the kits that use pre printed sides that are being discontinued. Not the etched ones. These are the Prototypes, XP64 and the BR Pullmans. Quote MK.1 ETCHED BRASS SIDES SERIES IS NOW ENLARGED WITH SPS140/SPS141/SPS142/SPS143/ SPS160/SPS161/SPS162/SPS163/SPS164/SPS400/SPS401/SPS402/SPS403/SPS404. THE WEBSITE IS BEING AMENDED. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5D_Stoke Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 6 hours ago, 1965Nick said: These look fantastic, would they scale down to 2mm scale? They would scale down to 2mm but its not quite that simple, I would have to make them thicker to enable Shapeways to accept them for printing. I primarily designed and printed them because I wanted to model the carriage myself; not modelling in 2mm so have no idea how to tailor the design so it replaces the sides on an available Mark 1 model, for example. How are they usually done? And I assume 2mm coaches usually have the door handles and grab handles moulded on - making them in wire would be a bit of a step too far!? Likewise they would scale down to 3mm or 3.5mm if there was suitable demand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965Nick Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 Handles are normally made out of etched partsand added on. It’s not as fiddly as you think. I do understand about the thickness of sides. There are etched available of ends and underframes. 2mm is not as scary as many think, 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5D_Stoke Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 20 hours ago, 1965Nick said: These look fantastic, would they scale down to 2mm scale? They would scale down to 2mm but its not quite that simple, I would have to make them thicker to enable Shapeways to accept them for printing. There is a general problem increasing the thickness of curved shapes, it's a whole lot more labour intensive than on flat surfaces, and where there are multiple windows its even more fiddly, at least the way I do it! I think in scales below 4mm the sides are going to appear so thick that the glazing would be unrealistically recessed, this is where etched material scores, if it can be curved to the correct profile, which I admit is difficult for this coach with its unusual profile compared to the single curve of 99.99 percent of mark 1s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 1 hour ago, 5D_Stoke said: I think in scales below 4mm the sides are going to appear so thick that the glazing would be unrealistically recessed The key in N would be to incorporate the windows and print in a clear medium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 It would be a bu**er to polish the glazing, though ........ I'll stick to 4mm ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 5 hours ago, frobisher said: The key in N would be to incorporate the windows and print in a clear medium. No - Etched sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 5 hours ago, BernardTPM said: No - Etched sides. Though a little trickier to do that via Shapeways... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) Not using Shapeways will save a lot on the postage! Edited November 22, 2021 by BernardTPM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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