New hst

[Chris116]

In my view the big problem with the HST is that Hornby treat the power cars and coaches as separate items rather than treating them as a train including both.

 

I know people who have been left with coaches with the power cars sold out or with power cars and then being unable to obtain the required coaches.

 

Would a manufacturer sell the driving cars of a DMU or EMU separately? No, so why sell the HST in this manner. It should be two power cars with either one or two motors plus two or three coaches to at least make a short layout friendly train with extra coaches being available at the same time, not six to twelve months later.

[SamThomas]

18 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

Would a manufacturer sell the driving cars of a DMU or EMU separately? No, so why sell the HST in this manner. It should be two power cars with either one or two motors plus two or three coaches to at least make a short layout friendly train with extra coaches being available at the same time, not six to twelve months later.

You often get the same with European HO - it took me ages to assemble a prototypical ICE2 set & I've only recently sourced the last coach although that's a 1st rather than a 2nd class.

Same with most of the MU's (unless you are looking at the 2/3 car sets as run).

[StuAllen]

34 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

In my view the big problem with the HST is that Hornby treat the power cars and coaches as separate items rather than treating them as a train including both.

 

I know people who have been left with coaches with the power cars sold out or with power cars and then being unable to obtain the required coaches.

 

Would a manufacturer sell the driving cars of a DMU or EMU separately? No, so why sell the HST in this manner. It should be two power cars with either one or two motors plus two or three coaches to at least make a short layout friendly train with extra coaches being available at the same time, not six to twelve months later.

I would agree - what you’ve suggested is no different to how they are selling the APT, hopefully they’ll learn from it and adapt the sales model going forwards 

[TomScrut]

42 minutes ago, Chris116 said:

It should be two power cars with either one or two motors plus two or three coaches

 

If 3 coaches then if one was buffet/kitchen, other was a first and another a second brake then I think the other coaches wouldn't be that important in terms of which ones to buy if making a less than full rake. Normally the kitchen/buffets sell quickly as everyone wants them IIRC.

[Roy Langridge]

2 hours ago, Chris116 said:

Would a manufacturer sell the driving cars of a DMU or EMU separately? No, so why sell the HST in this manner. It should be two power cars with either one or two motors plus two or three coaches to at least make a short layout friendly train with extra coaches being available at the same time, not six to twelve months later.

 

Yet again those of us with TMD layout get forgotten about... 

 

Power cars on their own at depots are common.

 

Roy

[GordonC]

I'd guess the timings issue between HST power cars and coaches turning up separately might be if each are produced at different factories, which could complicate things if trying to release a 'train pack' of power cars and coaches. With the APT, they will all have been produced together at the same factory and things like the shared bogies mean the initial 'train pack' and additional coaches make more sense.

 

 

[Chris116]

2 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Yet again those of us with TMD layout get forgotten about... 

 

Power cars on their own at depots are common.

 

Roy

At the moment the only people who are properly catered for are those with TMD layouts. I have to admit I had not thought about that problem.

 

Although the last time I came back to London from Edinburgh the TMD near Edinburgh had a number of power cars in pairs and four or five coaches so a pack with three coaches and two power cars would seem to fit the bill quite nicely.

[adb968008]

It would be interesting if they sold each power car set as 2 x cars, 1x TGS 1XBuffet.

 

Though, it would get annoying if they subsequently released another set in the same livery, or a power car pair in a special livery for an existing operator…

 

I have a lot of powercars, but less rakes of coaches, my LNER, Vtec and Locomotion pairs share a set of coaches, as does my Scotrail and FGW share a dynamic lines set, my Welsh Dragon, OOC, Castle, 43002 and  GWR pairs share 2x rakes of GWR coaches, one sliding, one regular.

 

I also have a spare LNER set, which I was thinking to debrand as EMR if Hornby don't announce them in January’s catalog, but they will share my EMT/LNER rakes if they do.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by adb968008

[Roy Langridge]

1 hour ago, Chris116 said:

At the moment the only people who are properly catered for are those with TMD layouts. I have to admit I had not thought about that problem.

 

Although the last time I came back to London from Edinburgh the TMD near Edinburgh had a number of power cars in pairs and four or five coaches so a pack with three coaches and two power cars would seem to fit the bill quite nicely.

 

Not sure how you can say only people with TMD layouts get catered for? There are plenty of coaches and wagons out there - in fact there have been a multitude of new wagons recently and many new coaches over the past 2-3 years. Ok, some are not the most accurate (and hence this thread) but they are available, just like some locos are not the best.

 

I am all for a new HST and Mk.3 coaches - I just disagree that they should be bundled.  Some people have complained about having to buy DCC Sound locos to get what they want - for those that only need power cars, a train pack would take that even further with even greater additional costs.

Roy

[stewartingram]

I remember the days when the real Hornby (ie HD) used to sell steam locos separate from their tenders.....

[Hal Nail]

36 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

I remember the days when the real Hornby (ie HD) used to sell steam locos separate from their tenders.....

 

Quite right too. Anyone who only collects tenders would complain they were being overlooked otherwise.

 

[159220]

On 26/11/2021 at 19:33, DaveClass47 said:

I mean really?! … ding ding… all aboard the looney bus! 
 

Proud looney here! It's better to be fanatical about detail than generalised and normalised... 

 

I wish I never watched this series, I was ignorant in how 'off' the Hornby HST was. Yes the parting lines around the cab are just the start...this evening I have now counted at least 16 errors when compared to a prototype/drawing and the CAD (screenshots from their app) only addressed a third of them. 

 

I think I shall be selling my HST fleet and waiting for Rapido (a proven company, behind numberous high detailed models) or <insert another confident manufacturer not worried to take on Hornby>. My view, if you are already forking out £339.99 (RRP) then why not russell up another hundred or two for the definitive HST? 

 

Interesting observation from this series, we all know Hornby's competitors are employing fanatical types who care about the details. This is in a stark contrast to the members of Hornby on this series who seem rather bemused as to what a bogie is... hmm... I was not impressed. Is it just me rather alarmed now? 

[TomScrut]

3 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Not sure how you can say only people with TMD layouts get catered for?

 

I think his point w.r.t. the HST is that the power cars are miles ahead of the MK3s (except SD ones) and therefore the HST as a complete train is not as good as a power car on a TMD layout. Not saying I agree completely with the point but that's my interpretation of it.

[surfsup]

9 minutes ago, 159220 said:

Proud looney here! It's better to be fanatical about detail than generalised and normalised... 

 

I wish I never watched this series, I was ignorant in how 'off' the Hornby HST was. Yes the parting lines around the cab are just the start...this evening I have now counted at least 16 errors when compared to a prototype/drawing and the CAD (screenshots from their app) only addressed a third of them. 

 

I think I shall be selling my HST fleet and waiting for Rapido (a proven company, behind numberous high detailed models) or <insert another confident manufacturer not worried to take on Hornby>. My view, if you are already forking out £339.99 (RRP) then why not russell up another hundred or two for the definitive HST? 

 

Interesting observation from this series, we all know Hornby's competitors are employing fanatical types who care about the details. This is in a stark contrast to the members of Hornby on this series who seem rather bemused as to what a bogie is... hmm... I was not impressed. Is it just me rather alarmed now? 

 

No, I'm with you too. If wanting a highly detailed HST that actually looks and feels the part makes me a Loony, then so be it. The paint a livery on it and pretend that no-one will care about the difference approach from Hornby is getting rather boring now - the HST is another item of rolling stock with a huge range of details and livery combinations and it really needs a quality model to do it justice - I'm not talking about a "Rolls Royce we've tinkered with the existing tooling" approach here either. It's not just the obvious errors that I find annoying, it's the little things like the completely empty space in the Radiator / Cooler Group area, and the weedy fans used in them (I've since modified mine with non rotating Dapol 68 fans to make a much better representation of them), the easy to do radiator cut out and removing the glaringly obvious moulding lines from the front. As I keep saying, if Lima could capture the face of it correctly in the 1980s, just why can't Hornby in the 2020s?! 

[MrTea]

It’s not that long until 10th January when we find out what Hornby are planning for the 2022 range…
 

I do think it’s ironic that what a large number of the contributors to this thread really, really want to know is: which other manufacturer is going to release a new HST model? 
 

Perhaps Rapido/Accurascale/Bachmann/Dapol/Heljan could do the decent thing and get on with announcing their announcement?!

(if indeed any of them have got one to announce)

 

…then at least we can start the discussion about that in anger! 

[Global]

18 hours ago, MrTea said:

It’s not that long until 10th January when we find out what Hornby are planning for the 2022 range…
 

I do think it’s ironic that what a large number of the contributors to this thread really, really want to know is: which other manufacturer is going to release a new HST model? 
 

Perhaps Rapido/Accurascale/Bachmann/Dapol/Heljan could do the decent thing and get on with announcing their announcement?!

(if indeed any of them have got one to announce)

 

…then at least we can start the discussion about that in anger! 

Yes that would be good! It will either cause major elation or disappointment depending on an individual’s pov! 
 

Personally Heljan would be a real disappointment as they’d probably make a worse job than Hornby with the shape! And they both have issues with livery application errors.
 

Bachmann would cost a fortune and they’d probably only release one of each coach so would take decades to assemble a full rake at the rate they release them!
 

Dapol, not sure as not really ever bought any of their models but I guess they have some research from their n gauge version so may scale up. 
 

Hoping for Accurascale personally! 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Global

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, Global said:

Yes that would be good! It will either cause major elation or disappointment depending on an individual’s pov! 
 

Personally Heljan would be a real disappointment as they’d probably make a worse job than Hornby with the shape! And they both have issues with livery application errors.
 

Bachmann would cost a fortune and they’d probably only release one of each coach so would take decades to assemble a full rake at the rate they release them!
 

Dapol, not sure as not really ever bought any of their models but I guess they have some research from their n gauge version so may scale up. 
 

Hoping for Accurascale personally! 

 

That is a pretty fair summary TBH!

 

Not familiar with any Dapol coaches, but the 68s I have of theirs are excellent and I think I probably have more of their wagons than anyones (until the AS stuff I have on order turns up at least).

 

I also think it's fair to say despite the issues mentioned with a potential Bachmann one, it would probably be brilliant.

Edited December 2, 2021 by TomScrut

[RedgateModels]

42 minutes ago, Global said:

 

Personally Heljan would be a real disappointment as they’d probably make a worse job than Hornby with the shape! And they both have issues with livery application errors.

 

Don't forget details dropping off as soon as you touch it and the bodyshell made up from 48 different pieces

[Esmedune]

On 30/11/2021 at 23:46, 159220 said:

Proud looney here! It's better to be fanatical about detail than generalised and normalised... 

 

I wish I never watched this series, I was ignorant in how 'off' the Hornby HST was. Yes the parting lines around the cab are just the start...this evening I have now counted at least 16 errors when compared to a prototype/drawing and the CAD (screenshots from their app) only addressed a third of them. 

 

I think I shall be selling my HST fleet and waiting for Rapido (a proven company, behind numberous high detailed models) or <insert another confident manufacturer not worried to take on Hornby>. My view, if you are already forking out £339.99 (RRP) then why not russell up another hundred or two for the definitive HST? 

 

Interesting observation from this series, we all know Hornby's competitors are employing fanatical types who care about the details. This is in a stark contrast to the members of Hornby on this series who seem rather bemused as to what a bogie is... hmm... I was not impressed. Is it just me rather alarmed now? 

I'd never call you a loon, we all have different priorities in life. Some of us prefer to buy food to live ;-)  Seriously, I could spend £500 on a loco, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I, personally, just do not see the value in doing so.  If I had a spare £500, I'd probably prefer to go away for a weekend or get a cheap hotel in London and go do some research at the National Archives for a few days.  I have wide and varied interests, but the bottom line is I have a fair understanding of the cost of China manufacturing these things and I just balk at these fantastical prices. If Hornby are only just breaking even, I would say that they need to have a look at why their business is so poorly run. 

However, if model railways are your passion and you have the disposable income, I would not begrudge you blowing a wad on something you really desire. The only point I have been making here is that I could not do that, and I don't claim to be in any moral majority. 

I had to smirk about the concept of the lines being wrong, still, as I don't know how to break this to you, but the models are also far too small to be realistic ;-)

[Hal Nail]

5 hours ago, Esmedune said:

I could spend £500 on a loco, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I, personally, just do not see the value in doing so.  If I had a spare £500, I'd probably prefer to go away for a weekend or get a cheap hotel in London and go do some research at the National Archives for a few days.

Since you can sell most stuff on ebay for pretty close to new prices (often more if you shop carefully in the first place) and 2nd hand prices go up in line with new prices so are inflation linked, I'd argue £500 spent on models is better value. 

[RJS1977]

On 28/11/2021 at 22:59, mdvle said:

 

Sigh, I get it, there is a vocal minority who don't like current prices.

 

But we were talking about (aka speculating) what a newly tooled all modern HST from **Bachmann** would cost, not talking about the prices of existing tooling HST stuff from Hornby.

 

If anything, given your desires, you should be hoping/praying for a competitor to bring out a new high end HST as that would likely force Hornby to drop the prices on their existing stuff - as well as potentially cranking out a lot more of it.

 

/

True, but the question is - what do we want the hobby to be? The preserve of the better-off as it was in the days of Exley and Bassett-Lowke, or the popular mass hobby it was in the 70s and 80s?

 

Personally, I know which I'd prefer it to be...

[Esmedune]

8 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

Since you can sell most stuff on ebay for pretty close to new prices (often more if you shop carefully in the first place) and 2nd hand prices go up in line with new prices so are inflation linked, I'd argue £500 spent on models is better value. 

Well, last month I bought a Bachmann Jinty for £20 and a Webb Coal Tank for £40 at a real auction, today I picked up a Bachmann Class 25/3 new in box for £63 including all charges, from real auctions. Also, don't confuse the asking prices of "Buy it now" sales that never sell with the realised prices of auctions. The same Class 25/3 I was following on ebay went for £60 with £4.20 postage, so pretty much the same.  The fact that other people are trying to get £180 for the same model does not count if they never actually sell.

[Hal Nail]

4 hours ago, Esmedune said:

The fact that other people are trying to get £180 for the same model does not count if they never actually sell.

I don't want to prolong this diversion but I was speaking from experience, albeit in 0 where the runs may be smaller keeping demand high perhaps.

 

£200+ for a loco is definitely a lot for some people but if you consider you can get, say, £175 back if necessary, it's not quite so extravagant.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Hal Nail

[adb968008]

I wouldnt recognise model railways as a good investment.

They have a good residual value and are easy to sell if you need cash.

But very few really increase in value, and if they do, too soon after release the manufacturer can always turn the taps back on.

 

examples include the silly money paid for Pecketts on release, but now there discounted in several places.

[Ian Hargrave]

Returning to the HST,after the latest Hornby TV programme and its unveiling in “upgraded”form,a couple of points arise.Firstly who is the competition discussed by SK ? Secondly,the new close coupling design……I’m unsure of exactly how it’s going to work and could have done with more coverage about it than we got .Didn’t look particularly robust or effective at least to my eyes.Any thoughts ?